Religion in America

Guess I'll add a couple of follow-up questions.

Is the decline of moderate and mainstream churches a loss to our religious landscape?

Do you think this represents an overall increase in polarization between individuals who consider themselves 'religious' and those who consider themselves 'secular?' (A shrinking middle ground of moderate believers?).

Would you agree that an increase in emphasis on individualism is related to the rise in non-religion as a choice?

Catholicism is much maligned yet it is holding steady in membership (although I think there is a shift in geography of the Catholic strongholds from north to south). What do you think most explains this?
 
Dear luna,

There's no hope. You're turning into a nation of heathens.

s.
 
Snoopy said:
Dear luna,

There's no hope. You're turning into a nation of heathens.

s.
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:D

I'm not worried about heathens; they are typically some of the nicest people around. But it does seem to me that we are becoming more and more a nation of extremes. It also seems to me that as a nation we are buying into the false notion that reason and faith are incompatible.
 
I'm looking for stats that I read a year or two ago but can't find regarding growth in New Thought churches.

I think those churches that focus on hell and damnation, end of times, and apologetics when it comes to science are just bound to continue to lose ground.

Like the cosmonaut said, I don't see heaven up here. All the old metaphor and analogies fall apart if you insist they are literal and not metaphorical.

Anecdotally in the past 10 years my church has doubled in the past 10 years, and other Unity Churches in the DC area have seen steady growth in both in numbers in attendance and numbers of churches in the past 20 years.

I've sent out some emails and will find data nationwide.
 
wil said:
I think those churches that focus on hell and damnation, end of times, and apologetics when it comes to science are just bound to continue to lose ground.
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Interesting though, it is not the more evangelical and non-denoms that are declining, but mostly the moderate to liberal mainline Protestant churches.

From daur's link above:



The percentage of Americans who are Christian is edging downward, to 76 percent of the population. (The decline from 1990 to the 2001 survey was far steeper, 86.2 percent to 76.7 percent.) But a look behind the numbers shows that most of the decline is due to the ongoing erosion in mainline Protestantism and that evangelical or nondenominational Protestantism is filling the vacuum.
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I think a lot of Christian moderates tire of being associated with the extremes and are also more likely to embrace multiple religious paths as valid and worth exploring. So eventually they just move into the "spiritual but not religious" group, New Thought, New Age, or what have you.

Some people also switch to non-denom evangelical churches for various non-religious reasons- they tend to have more available meeting times, they play contemporary music and you have no need to learn how to read music since the tunes are simple and the words are on power point. It can be very emotional in non-denom evangelical churches, which a lot of people seem to respond to and enjoy. I don't enjoy it- to me it feels like I'm on a roller-coaster, but then I also don't enjoy much television for the same reason. I don't like to be pushed around emotionally and I feel that most media and many American churches do that. But it seems a lot of people like it.

I like the Episcopal church, but it isn't very hip. No fancy technology in our old church, we just have the old worn hymnals. We have plain wood pews and no comfy theater seating like the new non-denom church I visited in town. We have a bunch of folks singing in the choir and an organ, but we don't have a rock or pop band, and we don't seem to hold contemporary concerts for the high schoolers on weekends. We have no walled-off rooms for new mothers to stand... so we put up with the babies crying during prayer. We make everyone stand in line for communion. One line and sometimes you spend a while looking at the altar in silence. In most newer churches I've been to in the non-denom world, no waiting is required. There are many tables and you serve yourself. In some of them, you do it whenever the mood strikes you. No need to wait, as we do, for the priest to bless us individually.

I find my church lovely- I feel connected to my ancestors when I struggle through a hymn written 500 years ago. I like the slight discomfort in the pews- it keeps me awake and concentrating on what I'm doing. I like lining up and waiting for communion- it teaches me to be patient and I treat it as a meditation. I like that the priest takes the time to serve me my little wafer and wine, to bless me, and to shake my hand at the end of the service.

But at the same time, I don't find that any of that is necessarily connected to my spirituality beyond the meaning I give it. Many people my age like the power points, the Starbucks stand outside the sanctuary, the easy-to-sing rock tunes, the serve yourself and come-as-you-are atmosphere of the newer churches.
 
lunamoth said:
Guess I'll add a couple of follow-up questions.

Is the decline of moderate and mainstream churches a loss to our religious landscape?

Do you think this represents an overall increase in polarization between individuals who consider themselves 'religious' and those who consider themselves 'secular?' (A shrinking middle ground of moderate believers?).

Would you agree that an increase in emphasis on individualism is related to the rise in non-religion as a choice?

Catholicism is much maligned yet it is holding steady in membership (although I think there is a shift in geography of the Catholic strongholds from north to south). What do you think most explains this?
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Most definitely. Please check out the article below that came from this link that dauer posted:
dauer said:
http://www.getreligion.org/?p=8772
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Here's the article referenced in dauer's link:

Tribal Relations - The Atlantic (January/February 2006)

This article highlights the collectivist strategy of developing "voting blocs," which can then be manipulated by political strategists and exploited "targeted demographic marketers." I'm thinking that some of the drop in the liberal denominations in favor of the more "generic forms" could be a subconscious reaction by many who object to being manipulated and treated as a "bloc" to attempt to escape from manipulative collectivist 'marketing tactics.' I know that a lot of people are also starting to refuse to choose a "racial classification" on surveys, or choose to mark "other," as well. It might be something to consider.
 
^ Speaking of voting blocs that have been and are manipulated by political strategists, one of the many reasons that I stopped attending the conservative evangelical churches that abound here in Colorado Springs is because of the mentality that if you don't vote Republican, you are not a true follower of Christ.
See:
Evangelicals start soul-searching as prospect of Obama win risks Christian gains in politics

Evangelicals despair at prospect of Democratic victory | World news | The Guardian

I guess it all depends where one lives and the cultural surroundings. The fastest growing and largest Churches here are the more conservative user friendly, Starbucks, with a rock concert every Sunday ones described by path_of_one. Other mainline Protestant churches that are also growing are Presbyterian and United Methodist and a Missouri Synod Lutheran Church congregation. They were losing members to the Starbuck church crowd so they changed two of their Sunday services to more contemporary family friendly ones and they started attracting more members. Plus choice, choice, choice is very important..offer many interesting and relevant Adult Sunday School options and more people will attend.

This is what I have observed in my neck of the woods. :)

Another interesting article.
http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2008/11/03/newlifechurch/
 
Jamarz said:
^ Speaking of voting blocs that have been and are manipulated by political strategists, one of the many reasons that I stopped attending the conservative evangelical churches that abound here in Colorado Springs is because of the mentality that if you don't vote Republican, you are not a true follower of Christ.
See:
Evangelicals start soul-searching as prospect of Obama win risks Christian gains in politics

Evangelicals despair at prospect of Democratic victory | World news | The Guardian

I guess it all depends where one lives and the cultural surroundings. The fastest growing and largest Churches here are the more conservative user friendly, Starbucks, with a rock concert every Sunday ones described by path_of_one. Other mainline Protestant churches that are also growing are Presbyterian and United Methodist and a Missouri Synod Lutheran Church congregation. They were losing members to the Starbuck church crowd so they changed two of their Sunday services to more contemporary family friendly ones and they started attracting more members. Plus choice, choice, choice is very important..offer many interesting and relevant Adult Sunday School options and more people will attend.

This is what I have observed in my neck of the woods. :)
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I wouldn't be surprised one bit. The manipulation abounds everywhere, hence the drive for many to escape from the 'blocs.'
 
Wow interesting link there from Dauer. In addition to its conclusions I think more crooked ministers will have to live in hiding to keep previous parishioners from coming after them. Awakening-schmakening. Yeah I think we're in for a lot of awakening very soon.
 
lunamoth said:
One person's bloc is another's community.

I'm sure there is truth in what you say SG, but still it seems very cynical.
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It sounds cynical, because it is. The ideal of unity in diversity is getting squeezed out, and is being replaced by the perception of a diversity of homogenized 'blocs.' How often do you hear the phrase "typical (fill in group label of your choice here?)" As a scientist, I'm sure that you realize that finding an individual who matches all of the criteria for "typical" within a given group or community is really quite rare.
 
I think the OP is a reflection of the fact that as societies / individuals become more educated / have access to more information, it would seem inevitable that the flock will not be as easy to maintain in one tidy grouping. As you look around the world it is the most controlled / least educated / “primitive” societies and nations that can have some of the most potential to maintain homogenous belief systems. The US is clearly a place where people can grow up and look around them at what else is “out there.” (You cannot choose something if you do not know it exists). I think my whole thesis is neatly summed up in Race with the Devil (1975)


:p


s.
 
lunamoth said:
Do you think this represents an overall increase in polarization between individuals who consider themselves 'religious' and those who consider themselves 'secular?' (A shrinking middle ground of moderate believers?).
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Let me say, I am a deeply religious guy with strong secular views.:)

Oh boy! Did you just call me "moderate?" Shame on you!

path_of_one said:
........

Some people also switch to non-denom evangelical churches for various non-religious reasons- they tend to have more available meeting times, they play contemporary music and you have no need to learn how to read music since the tunes are simple and the words are on power point. It can be very emotional in non-denom evangelical churches, which a lot of people seem to respond to and enjoy. I don't enjoy it- to me it feels like I'm on a roller-coaster, but then I also don't enjoy much television for the same reason. I don't like to be pushed around emotionally and I feel that most media and many American churches do that. But it seems a lot of people like it.

.............

But at the same time, I don't find that any of that is necessarily connected to my spirituality beyond the meaning I give it. Many people my age like the power points, the Starbucks stand outside the sanctuary, the easy-to-sing rock tunes, the serve yourself and come-as-you-are atmosphere of the newer churches.
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For me, church is right here at CR/Interfaith Online. This is where I get my religious education and identity.

Jamarz said:
The fastest growing and largest Churches here are the more conservative user friendly, Starbucks, with a rock concert every Sunday ones described by path_of_one. Other mainline Protestant churches that are also growing are Presbyterian and United Methodist and a Missouri Synod Lutheran Church congregation. They were losing members to the Starbuck church crowd so they changed two of their Sunday services to more contemporary family friendly ones and they started attracting more members.
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Starbucks lol!

Sounds like Cafeteria Christianity is gaining ground (pun intended, especially if you know what a Cafeteria Christian is).

Snoopy said:
I think the OP is a reflection of the fact that as societies / individuals become more educated / have access to more information, it would seem inevitable that the flock will not be as easy to maintain in one tidy grouping. As you look around the world it is the most controlled / least educated / “primitive” societies and nations that can have some of the most potential to maintain homogenous belief systems. The US is clearly a place where people can grow up and look around them at what else is “out there.”
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I think it has a lot to do with the growth of the Internet.
 
Sounds like Cafeteria Christianity is gaining ground (pun intended, especially if you know what a Cafeteria Christian is).
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I've always been a little unclear on this. Wouldn't any Christian that isn't part of the original church be guilty of this?
 
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