Of course...
The root of the Bible is man's response to the call of God. Without that, there wouldn't be any Scripture. Everything else is contingent.
Well perhaps you'll tell Him where He's gone wrong, and put Him right.
Thomas
M
mee
Guest
In ancient Israel, unfaithful Jews wept over the death of the false god Tammuz. Jehovah spoke of what they were doing as being a ‘detestable thing.’ (Ezek. 8:13, 14)
According to history, Tammuz was a Babylonian god, and the cross was used as his symbol.
From its beginning in the days of Nimrod, Babylon was against Jehovah and an enemy of true worship. (Gen. 10:8-10; Jer. 50:29)
So by cherishing the cross, a person is honoring a symbol of worship that is opposed to the true God.
According to history, Tammuz was a Babylonian god, and the cross was used as his symbol.
From its beginning in the days of Nimrod, Babylon was against Jehovah and an enemy of true worship. (Gen. 10:8-10; Jer. 50:29)
So by cherishing the cross, a person is honoring a symbol of worship that is opposed to the true God.
Hi Mee, I am new to this forum, so I have some naieve questions. The quotes you gave above could have also almost have been written by an Orthodox Jew, so do you believe in a literal reading of the Bible ?
I believe you are a Jehovah's Witness, is that the case, please correct me if I am wrong ?
Are Jehovah Witness Christians ? Do you believe in the divinty of Christ ? If so, I am confused how that fits with your comment above, can you please explain ?
Do you accept the New Testament ? Do you accept the Talmud ? There was a group called the Karaites who accepted the Bible but not the Oral Laws, are you similar in your beliefs ?
Thanks, nice to meet you. Avi
M
mee
Guest
Hi, yes i try my best to be a JEHOVAHS WITNESS
And yes Jehovahs witnesses are christians , and we believe what the bible REALLY teaches about who Jesus christ was. And a voice came out of the cloud, saying: “This is my Son, the one that has been chosen. Listen to him.” luke 9;35
and we like to listen to Gods son Jesus christ , so we do what he said in
JOHN 17; 3
This means everlasting life, their taking in knowledge of you, the only true God, and of the one whom you sent forth, Jesus Christ. john 17;3
the knowledge about the true God and his son Jesus christ is all in the bible .
and this is the true God , as it tells us in psalm 83;18 his name is JEHOVAH
That people may know that you, whose name is Jehovah,
You alone are the Most High over all the earth.
psalm 83;18
You alone are the Most High over all the earth.
psalm 83;18
And the one that he sent forth is JESUS CHRIST,
AS JOHN 3;16-17 informs us
For God loved the world so much that he gave his only-begotten Son, in order that everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed but have everlasting life. For God sent forth his Son into the world, not for him to judge the world, but for the world to be saved through him.
john 3;16-17
holysmoke
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"In the Dagobert’s Revenge article “Tammuz the Twin: The Beloved Disciple”, author Thomas LaNeave picks up on the idea that Thomas, as Jesus’ twin, acted as his substitute after his death. Noting that “Tammuz” means “twin-born”, LaNeave relates the symbolism of St. Thomas the Twin to that of the Semitic sun-god Tammuz, whose tale of death and rebirth as the “twin-born son of the Sun” resembles in many ways the legend of Christ. LaNeave further notes that Passover, the date of Christ’s Passion, takes place in the Jewish month of Tammuz."
M
mee
Guest
Jesus Christ identified the real symbol, or “mark,” of true Christianity when he told his followers: “By this all will know that you are my disciples, if you have love among yourselves.”—John 13:35.
For years, Bible Students(As Jehovahs witnesses were then known ) wore a cross and crown as a badge of identification, and this symbol was on the front cover of the “Watch Tower” from 1891 to 1931.
But in 1928 it was emphasized that not a decorative symbol but one’s activity as a witness showed he was a Christian.
In 1936 it was pointed out that the evidence indicates that Christ died on a stake, not a two-beamed cross
i love the fact that Jehovahs organization is progressive
and some pratices have Have Been Abandoned along the way so that they are more inline with the bible and what it REALLY teaches .
thats the way to do it
For years, Bible Students(As Jehovahs witnesses were then known ) wore a cross and crown as a badge of identification, and this symbol was on the front cover of the “Watch Tower” from 1891 to 1931.
But in 1928 it was emphasized that not a decorative symbol but one’s activity as a witness showed he was a Christian.
In 1936 it was pointed out that the evidence indicates that Christ died on a stake, not a two-beamed cross
i love the fact that Jehovahs organization is progressive
and some pratices have Have Been Abandoned along the way so that they are more inline with the bible and what it REALLY teaches .
thats the way to do it
Well, why is Tammuz a twin? Tammuz in not a twin in the pantheon of any dieties I know. Why confuse Thomas with 'the Beloved Disciple' as it is patently not he?
The Aramaic Tau'ma from the Aramaic word for twin: T'oma (תאומא). Thus the name convention 'Didymus Thomas' thrice repeated in the Gospel of John is in fact a tautology that omits the Twin's actual name.
Thomas
GlorytoGod
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no crosses at my church but I dont think its significant of anything.
nativeastral
fluffy future
it ties the collective consciousness to sin and suffering
GlorytoGod
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what I meant was I dont think that there is any significance in the fact that the Church that I attend has no crosses and stuff.
as for your statement above, what do you base it on ?
and what is the collective unconscious ?
Marsh
Disagreeable By Nature
Ah yes, the ever-popular and completely oversimplistic version of history where the evil Christians took over the world. Come on, H, do you really expect me to believe that the average Christian peasant had anything to do with the colonization of South America, considering that in their time they probably had no idea where exactly South America was? The history you are describing is the history of armies, empires, expansion-- in short, politics. It has nothing to do with religion aside from using it to motivate people for personal gain, and the fact that you are holding Paul accountable for it is astounding, considering that Paul counselled his churches to obey authority in order to prevent armed and bloody uprising within their societies. Missionaries were always followed closely behind by armies, and the purpose of armies is to destroy and expropriate. That's what the non-Christian PLA did in Tibet. That's what the non-Christian Japanese did in Southeast Asia. That's what the non-Christian Ottoman Empire did in the Balkans. That's what the non-Christian Mongols did in central asia and all the way to Europe... are you seeing the pattern?
Anyways, I'm just going to disagree with you on a historical basis, because it seems that we don't have any common ground at all spiritually. I am curious about one thing, though: Why do you call yourself a gnostic Christian if you don't believe in Christ? If you're waiting for a goddess instead of a prince?
nativeastral
fluffy future
l said collective consciousness, or now called memes; based on my own opinion, symbolic imagery/concepts underlying cultures and ultimately individuals who may question assumptions and beliefs about such things ie that we are sinful and life is suffering and unless you repent only through this one man nailed to a cross you will be dammed. l am taking a 'birds eye view' so sorry if l offend [pretend l am a martian].
Cross in Christian Art - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
holysmoke
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"Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are appointed by God. Therefore, whoever resists the authority resists the ordinances of God, and those who resist will bring judgment on themselves." Romans 13:1,2
These lines were all it took for Christian believers to follow the orders of Rome and then the Vatican, then the kings, queens, etc., etc. to do their bidding that is all that you say marks non-Christian politics as well as Christians. Well, the Christian followers of their governments were just better at the job of genociding indigenous peoples and wiping out their pre-Christian religions and cultures. And I do hold Paul responsible for sidelining Jesus' teachings that if followed would force every Christian believer into the same moral decision Jesus had to make facing the authorities of his day. Jesus chose obeying God over obeying these worldly authorities.
As to why I call myself a gnostic Christian, it is because I do believe in Christ as anyone can tell who reads my writings. I just happen to be a prophesy bearer bearing a vision of the return of the Spirit of Christ as a woman, a Daughter of God. I am not alone with this vision as the very early group of Christians (2nd century A.D) who followed Montanus produced two women prophetesses, one of which also saw the return of Christ "in feminine form came she".. But like us Gnostic Christians, the Montanus followers and their prophetesses were branded heretics by the Church Fathers who disallowed Christians to have revelations of their own about Christ.
M
mee
Guest
It is quite true to say that christians such be in submission to the goverments and ruling authorities of the land that they are living in .
they are required to pay their taxes and to not be breaking the law , they should be law abinding people.
Jehovah is allowing those goverments of men to rule at the momment, but if those goverments of men tell christians to do things that are out of line with Gods laws then christians would obey God rather than men.
As an example , if those goverments of men told christians to learn how to kill others, that would be going against Gods law , so Gods people would not go against Gods greater law .
holysmoke
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Jehovah's Witnesses, Quakers, Mennonites I think, are the only Christians I know of that will choose God over country and they are in the great minority of Christian believers. Paul's words have done their work in warping Christian believers into submission to their governments no matter how those governments act in un-Christian ways.
Marsh
Disagreeable By Nature
So let me get it straight: Christian peasant farmers and rural labourers dropped what they were doing and lined up to join the Crusades? Ummmmm, history says you're wrong, dude. It was the ARMIES led by the MONARCHS and the POPE who did the crusading. Peasants tended to be CONSCRIPTED under the threat of SEVERE PUNISHMENT for disobedience. The CONQUISTADORES (not just a clever name) were also SOLDIERS and their profession was CONQUERING. They joined up because they liked to kill people and take their stuff. But whatever, all of history was wrong and it was Paul who masterminded the whole thing.
By the way, on the topic of Christian genocidal maniacs, I wasn't aware that the Khmer Rouge were actually Christians. They must be, of course, because they were proficient at genocide, and only Christians are. The Imperial Japanese as well? There must have been a few missionaries at Nanking performing mass-baptisms as a prerequisite to entering the city. Genghis Kahn? Mao? Stalin? Hitler? All of them faithful Christians?
Gimme a break.....
(I wish there was an emoticon to symbolize having an aneurysm)
There was an infamous "Peasants Crusade":
People's Crusade - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
People's Crusade - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
nativeastral
fluffy future
So let me get it straight: Christian peasant farmers and rural labourers dropped what they were doing and lined up to join the Crusades? Ummmmm, history says you're wrong, dude. It was the ARMIES led by the MONARCHS and the POPE who did the crusading. Peasants tended to be CONSCRIPTED under the threat of SEVERE PUNISHMENT for disobedience. The CONQUISTADORES (not just a clever name) were also SOLDIERS and their profession was CONQUERING. They joined up because they liked to kill people and take their stuff. But whatever, all of history was wrong and it was Paul who masterminded the whole thing.
By the way, on the topic of Christian genocidal maniacs, I wasn't aware that the Khmer Rouge were actually Christians. They must be, of course, because they were proficient at genocide, and only Christians are. The Imperial Japanese as well? There must have been a few missionaries at Nanking performing mass-baptisms as a prerequisite to entering the city. Genghis Kahn? Mao? Stalin? Hitler? All of them faithful Christians?
Gimme a break.....
(I wish there was an emoticon to symbolize having an aneurysm)
you'll have to read your history as there were MANY peasants who WALKED to constantinople from Britain [ok they got the boat across the channel].