One Year in Your Religion

[mee]

Just... what would I learn? And how would it compare with what I am used to? quote]




you would learn what the bible REALLY TEACHES In the kingdom hall of Jehovahs witnesses, and even if you did not become a Jehovahs witness you would never forget what the bible really teaches

 

[Dondi]

Yes and no. What I mean by that is that I would apply the same ethics I use as anthropologist. Our fieldwork is a minimum of one year, and often we work in the same community for years at a time. We become godparents to children, we stay in people's homes. It's a very intimate and personal way to do research. We form relationships with people. And so we are very sensitive to the ethics of taking up time and a space in a society. In terms of spiritual practice- that is, being a congregant- yes, I would go in for only one year. And I would work with each religious institution on this matter, explaining the project and my personal reasons for doing it, asking them for guidance. I would be up front that I am a seeker and am unlikely to stay for longer than a year. But that does not mean I would leave everyone and not maintain the relationships.

That is a reasonable approach, I suppose. I would think that if there was anyone on this forum with the openmindedness to partake in such an endeavor, you would be a frontrunner.

On the contrary, I would love nothing more than to have a diverse group of people near my home that I could share my spiritual journey with for the rest of my life. I need not stay in one religion in order to maintain the spiritual and social relationships with others. I would also hope that this leads to community interfaith work eventually. I don't intend to abandon anyone I find along the way...

That's a relief. I'm glad that it will be more than just a scientific and academic curiosity.

Is it perfect? No. No person can fully get rid of their biases and beliefs. But then again, every convert to every religion therefore goes in with biases and beliefs that they must overcome in order to grow in their religion. So I am not so sure it is different.

Sure, we ought to approach anything we encounter with a bit of skepticism, and that will be predicated by our current worldview, no matter how hard we try to suppress our biases and beliefs. And I suspect that you will be more skeptical of some religions than you will be of others. Your analytical mind will try to form reasons why you shouldn't believe in such and such. All very natural. On the otherhand, you may be willing to adopt some aspect of the system you involved in.

At the end of each timeframe, however, you will have to evaluate just how much you believe or place in your life. And while there will be many commonalities between religions, there are probably far more differences. It would be interesting to know how you will reconcil these.

While I am unwilling to find a permanent belief, because I believe I am a changing, growing person, I am not unwilling to find a permanent spiritual community. So in many ways, my project would be a genuine one that, as much as would be possible, would replicate any seeker's search for a religion.

Oh, you will have a permanent belief. It may not concur exactly to a particular faith system, but it will be your's. You will still have a path of one.


BTW, have you thought of where you plan to begin your journey?

As a matter of suggestion, may I encourage you to start with the earliest religions and move forward. I gather from your Druidian experiences that you are already familiar with the primitive animistic religions (not suggesting that you sacrifice animals, but your are familiar with the communion with nature, right). The next religion would spring from Egypt, but I don't know of many faith groups associated with it.

Staying with the major religions, which I assume is you intention, at least on the outset, you would then start with Hinduism, then Judaism, followed by Buddhism, Christianity, and Islam. This progression would allow you to see how certain faiths evolved.

May I also suggest, a matter of diveristy, that in regards to Christianity, you would break it down to two separate journeys: one involving the Catholic faith, the other with a Protestant denomination. (or maybe not, for what I gather you are already affiliated with a certain Protestant denomination). Perhaps though, if you haven't been too deeply involved, you could commit yourself more into it. Or go to a different, like say Baptist or Charismatic, just for kicks and giggles.

In any case, I hope you find what you are looking for, path.

 

[Netti-Netti]

"My sense is that formal doctrine provides rather poor coverage of religious experience."

I agree. Hence, the project.

If there is no coverage of it in doctrine, where would it be? You can study ritual as an outsider, but that only tells you so much.

I'm trying to imagine what the anthropological data would look like. Unlike the psychology of religion or exegesis of scripture, I see anthropology as dealing with excavations and digging up ancient artifacts. Maybe I need to broaden my understanding of it.

 

[nativeastral]

"My sense is that formal doctrine provides rather poor coverage of religious experience."


If there is no coverage of it in doctrine, where would it be? You can study ritual as an outsider, but that only tells you so much.

I'm trying to imagine what the anthropological data would look like. Unlike the psychology of religion or exegesis of scripture, I see anthropology as dealing with excavations and digging up ancient artifacts. Maybe I need to broaden my understanding of it.

you are thinking of physical anthropology not social. The aim is to live 'as if' in a participant/as well as observant way, 'bracketing off' your own biases etc [almost impossible however objective you try]. l would imagine PO1 has already done field research otherwise she wouldn't be an anthropologist which now deals with modern societies and phenomena but before dealt purely with non western pre modern societies, deemed 'primitive'. For instance l had planned to study the lifestyle/structure of the marrones or runaway slaves in the blue mountains of Jamaica as a contrast/comparison to the cities/coastal villages and other plantation towns basically to find out whether they had developed differently socially/politically/religiously even in such a small island as that.

 

[path_of_one]

"My sense is that formal doctrine provides rather poor coverage of religious experience."


If there is no coverage of it in doctrine, where would it be? You can study ritual as an outsider, but that only tells you so much.

In cultural anthropology, one is a participant observer. You learn as a child learns- both the ideas, but also the deeper information that only comes from socialization and participation with the group.

Of course you need to learn doctrine (as any religious member does) for understanding what is going on. But doctrine presents an ideal, while the experience provides the real... and typically the two differ, which is partly why there is a high level of intra-group diversity in any social group, including a religion.

I'm trying to imagine what the anthropological data would look like. Unlike the psychology of religion or exegesis of scripture, I see anthropology as dealing with excavations and digging up ancient artifacts. Maybe I need to broaden my understanding of it.

Yes, you are referring to archaeology, which is only one of the four fields of anthropology. The others are linguistics (the study of languages), biological/physical anthropology (including human evolution, genetics, forensics and primatology) and my field of study, cultural anthropology.

Cultural anthropologists have a long history of studying cultural groups, including religion, by doing extensive fieldwork- it is learning by doing, with lots of follow-up questions. Participant observation traces itself back to Malinowski. Unlike comparative religion, it tends to be more interested in what actually happens, what participants feel, how it is integrated into the rest of life and culture. Anthropology is deeply wholistic- looking at the entire human being and how all aspects of culture are interrelated.

There are dozens of sub-field specializations within cultural anthropology; my own is cognitive anthropology (which studies the interrelatedness of human thought/feeling, decisions/action, and cultural patterns), applied to environment and health. I've also studied comparative religion for some years, so I have some background in their methodology and theory.

I'd love to get a second doctorate in comparative religion so I had both perspectives, but that's some cash I just don't have. LOL

Tao seems to think this journey would be expensive, but it really is not. Most congregations are relatively free or cheap, and even retreats like spending a week at a monastery is cheap. For example, one Buddhist monastery near home is just $250 a week, including all your meals. That's very reasonable, since groceries run about $100 a week anyway.

More later... grading to do.

 

[path_of_one]

l would imagine PO1 has already done field research otherwise she wouldn't be an anthropologist which now deals with modern societies and phenomena but before dealt purely with non western pre modern societies, deemed 'primitive'.

Yep. I studied how differing worldviews, decision-making patterns, and cutural models led to conflict over rangeland resources between rural ranchers and urban environmentalists in California. I hung out with cowboys for a few years.

Much of my anthropological work has been in studying cognition and how it is related to decision and therefore action. I'm interested in how to model cultural knowledge so that we better understand how people develop and access it, how it intersects with individual agency, and therefore how it relates to issues such as conflict and cooperation.

For instance l had planned to study the lifestyle/structure of the marrones or runaway slaves in the blue mountains of Jamaica as a contrast/comparison to the cities/coastal villages and other plantation towns basically to find out whether they had developed differently socially/politically/religiously even in such a small island as that.

Did you ever get around to it? I was tempted when hubby and I were contemplating a trip to Jamaica to go into the interior (with help and planning, of course). I've heard the Marrones are a very interesting group with a distinctive culture.

 

[Tao_Equus]

Tao seems to think this journey would be expensive, but it really is not. Most congregations are relatively free or cheap, and even retreats like spending a week at a monastery is cheap. For example, one Buddhist monastery near home is just $250 a week, including all your meals. That's very reasonable, since groceries run about $100 a week anyway.

Bargain!! Comes in at over $500 a week here. (But I thought you would have known my tongue was firmly in cheek when I posted).

 

[nativeastral]

hi PO1

in scotland it is called social anthropology, in the U.S. as with psychology it developed further and has now as you say diversified and became specialised.
Cognition is such a huge subject area and so much to get your teeth into. The differences between believers and belongers and of vicarious religion by the few on behalf of and accepted by the wider society plus the differing levels of knowledge and beliefs that it engenders.

Interestingly once called a 'mickey mouse' subject, anthropological research methods are now being applied to the normally text based religious studies as there obviously has been found a large gap between theory and practice of religious adherents worldwide. The catch word is now 'as lived'; l found the methodological agnosticism of Ninian Smart and his use of seven dimensions of religion - social/institutional, ethical, doctrinal/philosophical, material and mythological/narrative helpful in comparative studies.

No l didn't complete my honours as l stupidly [or not] got pregnant and all academic interest went out the window; l did go back to do an M.A. [sic] by taking celtic civilisation and 2nd yr history of art but vocation was a no go after having another child 3 years later. l still haven't gotten to Jamaica!

Have you considered Rudolf Steiner? Here there are schools, farm estates and residential facilities for mentally handicapped, herbal pharmacies etc where foreign students come and help out. As it is anthroposophical it has Christ in mind [though as christian 'science' don't know how that would sit with you]?

 

[Netti-Netti]

In cultural anthropology, one is a participant observer. You learn as a child learns- both the ideas, but also the deeper information that only comes from socialization and participation with the group.

Of course you need to learn doctrine (as any religious member does) for understanding what is going on. But doctrine presents an ideal, while the experience provides the real...

As it turns out, how one would study religion depends on how you define religious behavior. I think the functional aspect (like healing people by invoking deities) of modern religion is very scattered, leaving mainly the transcendental aspect. If you see the transcendent aspect as including individual adaptation, then the focus becomes how religion helps people, regulate their inner life and cope with day-to-day stresses. But then almost any behavior becomes a suitable focus of research.

Especially in a pragmatic culture like ours, a situational adaptation analysis makes sense. The only problem with a broad definition is that you'll end up with too much data. One could easily make the case that everything a person does is "religious," depending on their intentions. What about posting on a discussion forum as a religious act?

 

[nativeastral]

hi netti netti

l agree with you, it has been found that many things/acts which seem 'mundane' are actually 'religious' and missed by the outsider trying to be an insider. Karen Armstrong considers her writing and research a religious act [her that used to be a nun].

 

[Snoopy]

greens...

ooooooooh! Have you eaten there then?

s.

 

[Snoopy]

One could easily make the case that everything a person does is "religious," depending on their intentions.

I think it is certainly the case that any meaning or not is dependent upon "intentions". One could be doing the same as everyone else but it will have no meaning if the mind sees no relevancy for the actions. This relates to Thomas' comments on symbolism and non-verbal understanding.

In a non-religious environment (by way of example) if I attend a football game and shout and chant and cheer and jump up and down like everyone around me I will, to all outward appearances, be a fan of the game. But inside, it may mean nothing to me. (Apologies to all those for whom football is a religion. )

s.

 

[seattlegal]

hi netti netti

l agree with you, it has been found that many things/acts which seem 'mundane' are actually 'religious' and missed by the outsider trying to be an insider. Karen Armstrong considers her writing and research a religious act [her that used to be a nun].

"Before enlightenment--chop wood, carry water.
After enlightenment--chop wood, carry water."

 

[Snoopy]

Most congregations are relatively free or cheap, and even retreats like spending a week at a monastery is cheap. For example, one Buddhist monastery near home is just $250 a week, including all your meals. That's very reasonable, since groceries run about $100 a week anyway.

From my experience...the organisation has charitable status. The running costs are shown on a noticeboard and if you make any donation during your stay it is done anonymously by putting whatever you feel able or willing to in a (dana) bowl in a private little room.

s.

 

[Snoopy]

I'm also considering Deer Park Monastery in Escondido. Close to my So Cal home and based on Thich Nhat Hanh- there is the bonus opportunity to stay for a week or two at a time if I can scrounge together the money...

This makes me wonder - what about "putting your toe in the water" before making the year long commitment to each or any practice? (for example at the SFZC I see there is "daily meditation...practice periods, classes, lectures, and workshops").

s.

 

[Bandit]

Hi Path
I am taking this as a homework assignment and will get back later. I have done what you are thinking about doing in three different religions and I include interfaith as a fourth. It is not all that it is cracked up to be. I would agree that one year is plenty to understand the religion and what it is about. I will share part of my experience and try to relate answers to your questions and also include you if you were to actually spend a year at my assembly.

For me this makes a nice time capsule.

 

[path_of_one]

I like the Latin Mass. I like the sung Latin more. I like the vernacular mass because I can ponder particular words (and lose my place in the mass!). My only problem with the Mass in English is the language is so bland! They should have done a translation, then given it to a poet or a lyricist or someone...

I don't think English is a very pretty language. Even when I write poetry, it is a struggle because while I can make the meaning and image beautiful, the language is gutteral and rather ugly. That's just my opinion. I'd written a little poetry in French and found it easier to make the sound, image, and meaning work together.

Symbol is my 'big thing' ... once you rationalise a symbol, it ceases to be a symbol, and becomes a sign. That, in essence, is my beef with modern Christian movements, and why I'm so into first millennium Christianity — it's the language they spoke, and it's as clear as day to me.

You can't rationalise a Mystery without losing sight of it.

But you speak it too! You'll get more out of your year, wherever you are, than I might have first thought.

I've always been into symbols. It's part of my I love the arts, and part of why I want to do this project. I don't want to have a simple armchair experience where I read someone's deconstructions of a religion's symbolic and communal life. I want to engage the symbols directly and see what they do to me.

Part of my question on this journey would be how the religious community assists or detracts in the individual's capacity to believe. What I mean is that in every religion I've studied, there are some things I cannot grasp in my heart. I understand them intellectually, but I cannot believe them even for a moment. But then, I am outside the religion. How much of religion is the value of the community assisting the growth of belief in the individual? Will I find that this introverted, individualistic gal still can have moments of unity with the whole, if open-minded and willing enough? If I don't think about it too hard and let the symbology and ritual do its work?

When I learnt classical martial arts, that's the way we were taught. It was rarely explained, it was shown, and you copy ... this idea horrifies the modern mind that assumes nothing is inaccessible to it, as if it had a right to all knowledge, no, that's unfair ... it assumes that an answer to a question will suffice, as if by knowing the answer, you've embodied it ...

I agree this is a big problem. We have a culture in the West that demands instant gratification and all information at once. In many ways, it has led to some great things, like interfaith discussion online. But in other ways, it is problematic. It allows people to assume that they know a lot about other people and their lives when in fact they don't know much. There are so many limitations on what can be learned by reading. Doing provides a different kind of knowledge and, perhaps more importantly, a different sense of identity and impact to the self.

I've studied all the major world religions, and I can see similarities and differences on paper. But I have no idea what I'd find in practice, in my own soul and life when I leap in to them. While I have practiced sitting meditation, for example, I have never been Buddhist. And so while I see similarities and differences between Buddhism and Christianity, would I see those the same way if I am Buddhist for a while? There are only two religions I have tried to fully embrace so far in my life: Christianity and Druidry. And while there are many overlaps and I can weave a path from both, together- there are also differences that cannot be understood until you are doing ritual and engaging the symbols. There are qualitative differences in what each works in the self. Neither is bad, but they are different experiences and different kinds of transformation.

I do not think I (or probably anyone) could construct one path out of all the major world religions. But I do think that I could experience one at a time very deeply, and then compare that experience and my notes on it to my others.

Thanks for your help, Thomas. I will also ask for input, if you may, on my response to Dondi's post about what "flavors" of Christianity to leap into...

 

[path_of_one]

You can come join me in my religion for a year if you want.... Take it or leave it, I wouldn't really care lol....

Pointers you're gonna need to know...

Theres the kettle....
This is MY mug.
There's the xbox.
There's the Plasma remote control.
This is MY recliner... You can sit on any of the others though.....
Friday is Shabbos...
Saturday is Shabbos....
Sunday is Shabbos......
Monday is Shabbos...
Tue - Thu we pretend to look busy.
And my dogs are a higher rank than you, this is their house you're a guest. (A -very- silly mistake that happens alot... People soon learn their place lol.)

ok we're all set! Welcome to the Lex experience....

I love the doggies! Yes, in my house the dogs often get the couch, and we humans get the floor. LOL They are trained to be polite and ask for the couch, but we often cannot refuse their cute furry faces.

 

[path_of_one]

you would learn what the bible REALLY TEACHES In the kingdom hall of Jehovahs witnesses, and even if you did not become a Jehovahs witness you would never forget what the bible really teaches

Thank you for your input, Mee.

 

[c0de]

I don't think English is a very pretty language. Even when I write poetry, it is a struggle because while I can make the meaning and image beautiful, the language is gutteral and rather ugly.

.... I beg to differ

[FONT=Courier New, monospace]Fleeting Lights[/FONT]​

[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]How soft is that spark you fight to hide?[/FONT]​

[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]In the corners of your fleeting eyes, I can see those lights[/FONT]​

[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]Warning me… to not explore… the depths of that sea[/FONT]​

[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]I pretend to know, no more…[/FONT]​

​

[FONT=Courier New, monospace]She Thirsts[/FONT]​

[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]A castle of ice melts this desert wind ... blowing ....[/FONT]​

[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]Reveals the lines of a shrouded stream ... flowing ...[/FONT]​

[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]So sly ... she thinks ... stealing ... her eyes ... [/FONT]​

[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]Beneath ... she hides ... she thirsts ...[/FONT]​

[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]she tries . . . [/FONT]​