bob x
Well-Known Member
Honesty is also important. I only stepped into this one because of the extent of his lying.
Dream
Well-Known Member
Would you agree that when straights and homosexuals are together, there are protocols that need to be observed? I am not asking anyone to lay them out right now, but I think knowing how to respect others is important. It is more science than art. Right now it is a foggy area that needs some basic sense filled in if gays are really going to fit into a straight society. For respect, there must be a channel. Also, if Christians are ever really going to dialogue a working coexistance model would help bring them to the table. We have a straight society, and there needs to be some sense of direction to keep straights from panicking. Some ground rules would give people a game plan for how we can all fit on the same planet. 1. Workplace manners 2. Living space manners.
I think relations have not been going well. Laws aren't enough and sometimes are too much. Shock value has no value.
I think relations have not been going well. Laws aren't enough and sometimes are too much. Shock value has no value.
Marsh
Disagreeable By Nature
Come on, Marsh........... I think you cannot have it both ways
Naughty, naughty, Avi; don't be takin' my words out of context like that. I was on Soleil's side when I was defending Soleil's freedom of speech, not when Soleil was asserting that Christianity is at war against homosexuality. Read my initial post in this thread to see where I stand on this idea.
By the way, with "literary" skills like that you should think about getting into Canadian politics...
Marsh
Disagreeable By Nature
I agree. Just as one wouldn't recap the details of their night of hot sex in front of their girlfriend's mother (particularly if one had not been out with said girlfriend the previous night), so too one should be sensitive to the feelings of all others.
Marsh
Disagreeable By Nature
Agreed. Honesty is most important. Sometimes the truth can be unpopular, though-- and by truth, I mean the subjective truth that exists within a person's mind when they strongly believe in something.
I find that simply treating others with common courtesy and respect, tends to generate the same back, regardless of the situation.
greymare
Well-Known Member
I think that there is a Maturity factor here as well. regardles of sexual preference. I mean, honestly, some people may be in their 40's but if you have a conversation with them, they turn everything into a "sexual innuendo". Its an individuals state of mind. There is a time and a place for stuff like that. Common courtesy and respect is the way to go, i agree, but if the "other "party doesnt understand that, just walk away.
Snugglepuff
Well-Known Member
I'm coming in a bit late here but Christianity does not create a family. Alot of people have lost faith even if they claim to be Christian. Alot of them like someone said earlier, use the religion as a form of social standing.
The fact is that there are plenty of families that keep their family values and go on to be successful. Every family goes through tough times and there is no such thing as a perfect family. There are no reasons to panick.
There will be a constant ebb and flow of family values. Although divorce means literally that the family is separated, there's no reason why you can't still be a family... I'll explain this better;
At the age of 7 my parents divorced due to certain problems. We still managed to get together on Bonfire Night and I still saw each parent regularly. If it hadn't been for that divorce though, I wouldn't have the wonderful family I have now. My Mum has remarried, as has my Dad. My family get on well and holidays together (such as Yule/Christmas) are extremely special. It was actually as a result of my parents divorce that I learnt to appreciate the people I have around me. I would never want my children (whenever they arrive) to go through a divorce. But my family stuck together, we stayed strong and are stonger today. Incidentally, my sister was born out of wedlock and she is very much part of the family.
So my point is, being a family is not about what religion you are, or whether your parents are divorced or if you're born out of wedlock. You are a family because you love those closest to you and because you make the effort (even when you are apart) to be close.
Sounds soppy but it's true. I'm a very lucky lady to have the family I have and I count my blessings. But it has not been plain sailing because life never is.
God may have ordained it in his book that families must stay together by marriage but society has changed immensely and some of the Bible just doesn't apply anymore. People are more free-spirited - sometimes this can end badly, sometimes in a good way.
I ask you this though, would it have been better for my family to have stayed together, for my parents to have stayed married to each other, even though my father was physically abusing my mum. Should she have stayed?? Kept herself and my sister in danger??
I can guarantee that staying would have scarred me more and I would be so damaged... and more seriously, my mum could have ended up dead.
Sometimes there are good reasons for families being broken...
Naughty, naughty, Avi; don't be takin' my words out of context like that. I was on Soleil's side when I was defending Soleil's freedom of speech, not when Soleil was asserting that Christianity is at war against homosexuality. Read my initial post in this thread to see where I stand on this idea.
By the way, with "literary" skills like that you should think about getting into Canadian politics...
Marsh, I do not think I took your words out of context at all. Here is the main point of both posts:
This was what we were discussing around both posts. You can try to say that you were making a free speech argument, but that is not what the debate was really about, and I think you know it. No one was advocating for taking away Soleils right to free speech, so there was nothing for you to defend. Then you went on for several posts about how you will give your opinion in an anonomous forum but are too polite to give them in public.
It seems like now you are saying that you disagree with Soleil about something. Do you want to explain what your disagreement with Soleil is about ? Maybe we will have some agreement after all.
I'll stick to engineering, thanks.By the way, with "literary" skills like that you should think about getting into Canadian politics...
There are exceptions to every rule. The Bible states (as does Christ), that infidelity is a cause for divorce. Now infidelity is a multifaceted stone. It means to be "un faithful", to one's vows for another. That includes abuse, cheating, anything that would disrupt a marriage when one partner becomes selfish rather than considering the other partner first...(ouch, that means alot of people are in a state of infidelity everyday).
But the ideal is for a healthy relationship that is exclusive to one woman and one man, in order to raise children and create a tight knit unit, that develops morals and principles a society needs to continue to function in a healthy way.
Fortunately Human, can adapt and make good out of what they have in front of them...(as you have elequently pointed out).
Dream
Well-Known Member
Glad things worked out for your family. I dispute this claim some people make that marriage is an epoxy of souls. Depending on your situation it may not matter to you now, however marriage and divorce in the Bible are actually supposed to work just like they did for your family. Would it help you to know that both Judaism & Islam allow for a divorce and many Christians as well? We talk about Biblical divorce in the forum from time to time. Start a thread or bump an old one if you're interested in this topic.Snugglepuff said:
S
soleil10
Guest
I was not lying.
citizenzen
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As George Costanza once said in a Seinfeld episode, "Jerry, just remember: It's not a lie if you believe it."
Quite a good set of points - what's interesting to see is how marriage has changed as a concept from ancient to modern times - and as I've seen with my own parents, how divorce can free people.
Perhaps rather than that people state that marriage is required, perhaps we should be asking:
a) how should marriage be recognised
b) why should marriage be recognised
The divorce rate seems awfully high at present - is this because marriage isn't working as an institution, because there is too much pressure to be married, or because increasingly life spans means that modern families endure extra pressures for an extra long period of time that was far less known in the ancient world? Or perhaps other causes (selfishness, greed, peer pressure, religion demands, etc)?
Snugglepuff
Well-Known Member
I never really saw that in the Bible. At my old church, I was generally told that divorce was frowned upon. I need to re-read my Bible though... my memory is rusty.
I was very much unaware that it was accepted completely... I knew the Anglican and Methodist church "approved".
Indeed, my ex-wife, is still biblically considered my "sister". And she (fortunately) is treated as such...surprised?
greymare
Well-Known Member
I guess thats what i struggle with. I dont forgive easily . Hold grudges etc. I am learning to let things go, tho. We all are in a state of learning, i guess.
Snugglepuff
Well-Known Member
Actually, confusion seems to be the primary emotion right now. Lol... a little elaboration would be much apreciated