Approaching Islam

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Snugglepuff

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OK, so I was looking to get a bit of feedback from the Islam community on how to approach this.

It seems to me that Islam gets alot of stick from various groups and not alot of people know much about it unless they practise the religion.
So instead of getting older everyday and not finding out about the religions of the world, I wanted to find out more.

I am hoping to buy a Koran in the near future and read it. I have seen both good and bad press on Islam... the good press is what encouraged me to read up on this really.

So my question is, as a non-Muslim, how should I approach reading this text?? I've read that the Koran can be literally translated as "the guidance" as well as having other meanings attributed to it. Is the word of this book supposed to be taken literally or as a guide?
And as this book was written such a long time ago, is it still applied to us in society today??

I apologise if this comes across as ignorant or mis-informed but this is what I am here for - to learn more.

Hope to hear from someone soon
Hannah x
 
Hi Hannah

Oh dear I promised I wouldn't post online for two weeks but yours is an important question so I have just sneaked on for a minute.

Try to get the translation by Abdullah Ysuf Ali which has the arabic, english and at the bottom of each page some explanations of sentences we might not easily understand.

The Quran is the Word of Allah (swt) but cannot be translated into english, so what we read is the translation of the meaning of the Quran.

Also many of the ayats (verses) need to be put into historical context .. some speak to all Muslims for all time and some are relevent to what was happening to the Prophet Mohammed (pbuh) at the time but of course still teach us.

Am really pleased you want to find out about Islam, rather than just accept the stuff on the internet ... it's how I came to Islam.

Any questions, just ask.

Salam
MW
 
Muslimwoman said:
Hi Hannah

Oh dear I promised I wouldn't post online for two weeks but yours is an important question so I have just sneaked on for a minute.

Try to get the translation by Abdullah Ysuf Ali which has the arabic, english and at the bottom of each page some explanations of sentences we might not easily understand.

The Quran is the Word of Allah (swt) but cannot be translated into english, so what we read is the translation of the meaning of the Quran.

Also many of the ayats (verses) need to be put into historical context .. some speak to all Muslims for all time and some are relevent to what was happening to the Prophet Mohammed (pbuh) at the time but of course still teach us.

Am really pleased you want to find out about Islam, rather than just accept the stuff on the internet ... it's how I came to Islam.

Any questions, just ask.

Salam
MW
Click to expand...

Thankyou so much, that was a lovely reply. I will do my best to get that translation. We have a large Muslim community where I am and the recent election of the BNP has stirred up some interest in me as well as my personal religious development.

I would like to form my own opinions on it rather than be told what it is and just accept it. It's becoming an intriguing religion.

Have you always followed Islam or did you come to ti at a certain point in time?
 
Hi Hannah

One warning, be careful of both sides ... you will hear just as much rot from the anti-Islamist camp as you will from some radical type Muslim sites.

If you read something and just have a gut feeling it's wrong come and ask on the forum, we have a few Muslims here who can point you at various sites to help or we can check it out together.

I'll give you an example, my husband is a born Muslim and until I recently brought up the question of killing apostates and it's conflict with the Quran (which states there is no compulsion in religion) he believed, as most Muslims do this is a cut and dried topic ... leave Islam ... die.

We have been studying the issue for some time now and his view has changed totally. Yes apostates that leave and cause trouble (ie join the enemy) should be killed but it isn't about killing everyone that wants to leave. There is not a single trusted hadith (saying of the Prophet or story of his actions) which states he ever killed an apostate. Much belief is founded in culture and not in our faith.

I came to Islam quite late in life and for a very strange set of reasons. I started by wanting to understand these radical nutcases, what does the book actually say that would make people fly planes into buildings for G-d or oppress women???

It was purely an intellectual study on my part by by the 4th chapter of the Quran (called The Women) I knew I had found the right path ... even though I also understood that many Muslims are far removed from it in their actions.
 
Janz said:
Hi Hannah and welcome to IO. I am not a Muslim but have spent much time studying Islam. One of my heroes is Irshad Manji, a Muslim feminist and scholar. Here is a link to her web site and you can also download a copy of a Reformist Translation of the Quran in English.

Irshad Manji blog and official website reformist-quran
Click to expand...

thanks for link, another interesting take on reformation by feminism bringing their own essential slant to otherwise some outmoded paradigms in todays pluralist societies; hope l get time to read it:)
 
Peace to you, Snugglepuff--

I love people like you--openminded, trying to understand rather than attack.

The Holy Qur'an is the highest document authority for Muslims and it is a good thing to approach the Holy Book first. Once you are able to learn about Islaam from the Qur'an, you will see how much around the world is portrayed as Islam, but it really is not.

Some things to remember are:
1) Noble Qur'an, unlike the Holy Bible, is not chronological in regards to the descriptions of prophets' lives and stories related to them
2) There are surahs (chapters) revealed from Mecca and there are once revealed in Medinah
3) The Noble Qur'an is very poetic in its language and the translation that you read is only the meaning of interpreatation of the Qur'anic verses

While the Holy Qur'an mentions biblical prophets, quoting similar/if not the same stories from the Holy Bible, it also focuses on laws that Muslims should follow (i.e. warfare, dietary laws, marriage laws/ethiquette). Also, the Holy Qur'an gives examples prompting people to think (i.e. mentioning creation, nature or similar). A lot of times you will notice that verses are referring directly to either Prophet Muhammad savs, believers, Jews or Christians, or even unbelievers (i.e. when God answers back people's thoughts, feelings, conspiring thoughts through ayats/verses revealed). I was told that to best understand the verses you must think of the context in which they were revealed, in the context of the chapter they are in, etc.
Some people feel that the Medinan surahs are more 'warlike' rather than Meccan surahs (timelinewise, Meccan surahs were revealed first). Perhaps, but I feel it is because the Qur'anic Revelation was intented to be for peaceful purposes. Qur'an was not revealed for people to start a war and forcefully convert others to Islam. Not until Muslims were attacked first, driven out of their hometown of Mecca, did they received a revelation to fight back those who fight them (even when it included Jewish and Christian tribes that were aiding the enemy side).
In regards to the translations, think of a classical English poem or a Shakspeare play that you may attempt to translate into a different language. You would probably struggle to find the exact translation of certain words. Well, the same thing is with the translation of the Holy Qur'an. I was told that in Arabic language, Qur'an is very poetic. Some Arabic native speakers told me that when they read trnaslation of the Holy Qur'an in another language, it is as if they are reading a different book. If you encounter any confusions or something seems odd, or contradictory, I would advise that you find a native Arabic speaker and ask them to explain to you the best he/she can whatever caused you to question information from the Qur'an you are reading.
I hope that God Almighty leads you to gain more understanding.
In the Holy Qur'an, I feel, it is emphasized the importance of people who are willing to consider the Truth revealed in the Qur'an. Because it is a sign that people are open to change for the good. God Almighty constantly reminds people in the Holy Qur'an that He will not guide people who will not to understand.
Snugglepuff, you seem like the person who is willing to understand. God bless.
;)
 
Snugglepuff said:
OK, so I was looking to get a bit of feedback from the Islam community on how to approach this.

It seems to me that Islam gets alot of stick from various groups and not alot of people know much about it unless they practice the religion.
So instead of getting older everyday and not finding out about the religions of the world, I wanted to find out more.

I am hoping to buy a Koran in the near future and read it. I have seen both good and bad press on Islam... the good press is what encouraged me to read up on this really.

So my question is, as a non-Muslim, how should I approach reading this text?? I've read that the Koran can be literally translated as "the guidance" as well as having other meanings attributed to it. Is the word of this book supposed to be taken literally or as a guide?
And as this book was written such a long time ago, is it still applied to us in society today??

I apologise if this comes across as ignorant or mis-informed but this is what I am here for - to learn more.

Hope to hear from someone soon
Hannah x
Click to expand...

Hi,

IMO initially the meta-narrative is more important than the book. The people who first heard Quran did so in the background of a meta-narrative......Abrahamic legacy, God, egalitarianism etc, all of which if gets dissociated from the book, makes it difficult for the reader to uncover its meanings properly.

My personal favorite starting point are these

[youtube]LQ_yaDoRnME&feature=PlayList&p=6C72933EC63A3268&index=0&playnext=1[/youtube]


Islam & the Destiny of Man - Gai Eaton (Introduction to Islam)


Then try to find a decent biography of Prophet Muhammad. It will make it easy for you to figure out the whole plot & timeline. Here is one

In the Footsteps of the Prophet

Keran Armstrong, Martin lings & Yahya Emerick have also written nice books on sirah

As far as translation of Quran, I have been in love with Muhammad Asad's one. I stopped searching after I found it, comes loaded with footnotes for context. You wont find a difficult verse in Quran that he hasent explained.

Message of Quran - Muhammad Asad [Islam - Translation]

You can also try the translation by Abdul Hakim Murad.

The good thing about all these books/lectures is that they have been written by westerners who converted to Islam, not by Arabs or Indians, who always bring their cultural baggage into Islam.

As far as your question is concerned, Quran is "the guide", its like the highest, absolute bench-mark for a fulfilling human life (& life doesn’t end with death, it just transforms). But like everything else, it has to be interpreted by humans according to contemporary needs. There are ofcourse levels of interpretation, some verses are about law, you cant take them metaphorically. Others are about afterlife, which are mostly metaphorical. A big chunk of Quran deals with "flashes from history", where it wants you to see & understand the lessons from time or extracted wisdom (Bible minded people usually look for a temporal storyline in these verses , a thing that Quran "very wisely" doesn’t bother about, afterall its Quran not Iliad)
 
as an apostate of islam I suggest you do some research into the battle of the trench and mohamed's marriage to Aisha, makes some interesting reading :)
 
Snugglepuff said:
OK, so I was looking to get a bit of feedback from the Islam community on how to approach this.

It seems to me that Islam gets alot of stick from various groups and not alot of people know much about it unless they practise the religion.
So instead of getting older everyday and not finding out about the religions of the world, I wanted to find out more.

I am hoping to buy a Koran in the near future and read it. I have seen both good and bad press on Islam... the good press is what encouraged me to read up on this really.

So my question is, as a non-Muslim, how should I approach reading this text?? I've read that the Koran can be literally translated as "the guidance" as well as having other meanings attributed to it. Is the word of this book supposed to be taken literally or as a guide?
And as this book was written such a long time ago, is it still applied to us in society today??

I apologise if this comes across as ignorant or mis-informed but this is what I am here for - to learn more.

Hope to hear from someone soon
Hannah x
Click to expand...
First of all you have to learn Arabic, God only speaks Arabic you see. Then you have to believe that an illiterate Arab warlord who had a taste for beheading and very young girls was in communication with an angel (Gabriel) sent to give him gods laws so that the people might know them. That what Gabriel told him chopped and changed according to the political expediencies of his own quest for total power in the region and makes the Koran full of contradictions should not prevent you for claiming this book the most beautiful and perfect ever written. It may help while reading it to wear a black sack.
 
That's a pretty unhelpful comment, Tao - brings the tone of the thread down to a gutter level. Someone's asked for information, but all you've provided is disengaged base cynicism.

If you want to provide some historical references that may be useful for illustrating the development of Islam and/or the Quran, I'm sure that would be welcome.
 
I said:
That's a pretty unhelpful comment, Tao - brings the tone of the thread down to a gutter level. Someone's asked for information, but all you've provided is disengaged base cynicism.

If you want to provide some historical references that may be useful for illustrating the development of Islam and/or the Quran, I'm sure that would be welcome.
Click to expand...

Yeah, that comment wasn't exactly helpful, Tao, in fact, let's be honest, that was full of prejudiced cr*p. That's basically the tripe that everyone comes out with when they havent got a clue as to what the religion is about i.e. what I'm trying to avoid.

I was looking for advice (advice being the operative word) on approaching the religion.
 
Muslimwoman said:
Hi Hannah


I'll give you an example, my husband is a born Muslim and until I recently brought up the question of killing apostates and it's conflict with the Quran (which states there is no compulsion in religion) he believed, as most Muslims do this is a cut and dried topic ... leave Islam ... die.

We have been studying the issue for some time now and his view has changed totally. Yes apostates that leave and cause trouble (ie join the enemy) should be killed but it isn't about killing everyone that wants to leave. There is not a single trusted hadith (saying of the Prophet or story of his actions) which states he ever killed an apostate. Much belief is founded in culture and not in our faith.

I came to Islam quite late in life and for a very strange set of reasons. I started by wanting to understand these radical nutcases, what does the book actually say that would make people fly planes into buildings for G-d or oppress women???

It was purely an intellectual study on my part by by the 4th chapter of the Quran (called The Women) I knew I had found the right path ... even though I also understood that many Muslims are far removed from it in their actions.
Click to expand...

I don't think any Bible or religious book is set in stone but some choose to look at it that way. Others seem to pick out the scarier parts and choose to live their life by that way. I can assure you that with any confusion I may have, I will come on here and ask.

I think that's a nice way to come to the religion. It's a nice feeling when things just click into place :)

Again, thankyou ever so much for you help.
I will let you know when I get it.... also, sorry for the misspelling? I believe it's Qur'an, not Koran.
 
Amica said:
Peace to you, Snugglepuff--

I love people like you--openminded, trying to understand rather than attack.

The Holy Qur'an is the highest document authority for Muslims and it is a good thing to approach the Holy Book first. Once you are able to learn about Islaam from the Qur'an, you will see how much around the world is portrayed as Islam, but it really is not.

...

Snugglepuff, you seem like the person who is willing to understand. God bless.
;)
Click to expand...

I have been told that the Qur'an is much more beautiful in it's original language. Unforutnately, translation will have to do.
I think I will struggle with the choronolgy of the chapters.

It sounds more and more interesting, the more replies I get.
I am lookin forward to it and to asking lots of questions on it... you haven't seen the last of me yet ;) lol
 
farhan said:
Hi,

IMO initially the meta-narrative is more important than the book. The people who first heard Quran did so in the background of a meta-narrative......Abrahamic legacy, God, egalitarianism etc, all of which if gets dissociated from the book, makes it difficult for the reader to uncover its meanings properly.

...

There are ofcourse levels of interpretation, some verses are about law, you cant take them metaphorically. Others are about afterlife, which are mostly metaphorical. A big chunk of Quran deals with "flashes from history", where it wants you to see & understand the lessons from time or extracted wisdom (Bible minded people usually look for a temporal storyline in these verses , a thing that Quran "very wisely" doesn’t bother about, afterall its Quran not Iliad)
Click to expand...

Thankyou for all the references!!! I am being told alot that the translation loses alot of the meaning. I think the best thing for me to do is come on here and ask all of you lovely people.
I'm glad you said it needs to be interpreted according to contemporary needs... some people (on the more radical side) seem to think that religious books need to be taken literally. But it seems strange to me that they would do that when society has changed so much.
 
Tao_Equus said:
First of all you have to learn Arabic, God only speaks Arabic you see. Then you have to believe that an illiterate Arab warlord who had a taste for beheading and very young girls was in communication with an angel (Gabriel) sent to give him gods laws so that the people might know them. That what Gabriel told him chopped and changed according to the political expediencies of his own quest for total power in the region and makes the Koran full of contradictions should not prevent you for claiming this book the most beautiful and perfect ever written. It may help while reading it to wear a black sack.
Click to expand...

top post Tao, brutal but honest, I even tried to rep u for it but apparently I need to spread it around a bit more :eek:

again look into the battle of the trench and aisha. And dont believe everything the liberals tell you ;)
 
GlorytoGod said:
top post Tao, brutal but honest, I even tried to rep u for it but apparently I need to spread it around a bit more :eek:

again look into the battle of the trench and aisha. And dont believe everything the liberals tell you ;)
Click to expand...

I will look at both sides. No religion is innocent. However, I am a pretty liberal myself... so I may come to the same conclusions as them.

The thing is history can ge glorified or de-glorified by either side so neither you nor I can know the truth as we were never there.
 
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