"This place is dangerous for trying to find truth"

[Tao_Equus]

There is the seek first to understand. Now I used to be a real ass (those of you who think I still am wouldn't have been able to stand me at all) and my fav was to tell the door2doors that I worshipped door knobs...every day I carressed them, rubbed them, turned them and they opened doors for me and I'd invite them in for koolaid and they'd move on.

Today I explore the seek first to understand. And I question everything and it is completely unappreciated... When they show me the evils of whatever we explore the passages above and below which they don't follow. We discuss the origins of the bible JEPD and the authors of the new testament and they don't like...after bringing on the bigger guns to my door, it doesn't take more than three trips and that will be the last time I see them....Book of Mornon sure was interesting reading...

Mornon? Shoorly you mean moron?

 

[the breeze]

When you meet a pretty girl, it makes listening to a person talk about a religion all the more palatable. Maybe half the time it's the religion that makes them pretty.

Hmm, I don't think so. I think they're pretty at first and then they start to speak.

after bringing on the bigger guns to my door, it doesn't take more than three trips and that will be the last time I see them....Book of Mornon sure was interesting reading...

Interestingly enough I had some very thought-provoking discussions with a couple of young Mormon women. Even after I had made it clear there was no chance I'd join the church they still wanted to discuss. This though was a one off. Normally it's as you say. Once they feel they're not looking at an easy victory they disappear.

 

[shawn]

Mornon? Shoorly you mean moron?

Considering that the angel who allegedly delivered the message to said agent Smith, was named Moroni....LOL

 

[Joedjr]

.Book of Mornon sure was interesting reading...

A bit ago I was given a Book of Mormon by the messengers. Spent some time with it but I found it to be just a little too much. Don't know if interesting would be the term I would use. I ended up giving it to a Mormon co-worker.

 

[citizenzen]

Normally it's as you say. Once they feel they're not looking at an easy victory they disappear.

I think it's interesting to think that anybody would be interested in getting spiritual counseling from a 20 year-old male. If there is ANY segment of the population unqualified to provide counsel in matters spiritual, it would be that one.

I should know. I was one once.

Man, was I messed up.

 

[Avi]

Hey everyone, just checking in during my travels, did I miss anything interesting ?

I imagined kissing her . . . and exploring her . . . ok, I won't go there.

I guess this answers my question about Saltmeisters gender, .

 

[shawn]

Hey everyone, just checking in during my travels, did I miss anything interesting ?

Not really Ludvig, er.... Avi.

 

[Dream]

I disagree with disparaging fundamentalists or any such angry responses. If you really think that they are detached from reality, then you will only make things worse by behaving that way. You actually justify what they are doing, and by doing so you strengthen the culture of detachment of which you think they are a part. What you are doing feels natural because it is natural -- for the lower unintelligent orders of animals. Their weak grow weaker, and their runt dies of starvation. That is now how it should be with human beings. Our survival should be about all of us together. We find that from among the weak comes the strong. The fundamentalist individual actually has that part right, and its an admirable trait.

 

[Saltmeister]

I disagree with disparaging fundamentalists or any such angry responses. If you really think that they are detached from reality, then you will only make things worse by behaving that way.

Hmmmm. Scratchy was never really able to defeat Itchy.

When the cat dies the mouse will simply disappear.

 

[citizenzen]

I disagree with disparaging fundamentalists or any such angry responses.

What ARE you talking about?

I'd suggest you quote posts in the future. It keeps me from having to go back and actually read these things.

 

[the breeze]

I disagree with disparaging fundamentalists or any such angry responses. If you really think that they are detached from reality, then you will only make things worse by behaving that way. You actually justify what they are doing, and by doing so you strengthen the culture of detachment of which you think they are a part. What you are doing feels natural because it is natural -- for the lower unintelligent orders of animals. Their weak grow weaker, and their runt dies of starvation. That is now how it should be with human beings. Our survival should be about all of us together. We find that from among the weak comes the strong. The fundamentalist individual actually has that part right, and its an admirable trait.

It's more boredom than anger. There's little to be said for reading from a script and expecting the world to fall into line with your words. Fundamentalism is by its nature dogmatic (and usually intolerant) because its a doctrine of absolute irrefutable truth. They, not me, are the real separatists - they preach a 'for us or against us' black and white dogma that is hostile to the search for greater understanding.

 

[wil]

I agree, hence my current questioning and learning rather than my old method of satarizing...

 

[iBrian]

My first reaction reading Avi's opening post was to feel like bantering the point.

Then I felt sad for FaithfulServant - she's been a part of this community for a long time, and I don't like to see her feeling upset. She's put up with a lot on these forums, and generally carried herself with dignity and refrain, even though she knows of all the people here, she represents a set of beliefs that - in being called "fundamentalist" are easily viewed with scorn and derision, rather than viewed as "fundamental".

Then I look at this place, and sometimes it really does make me feel uncomfortable, because sometimes I think some people get too much from bantering about other people's beliefs. I just did it in another thread myself, and I wonder if that's healthy.

I wonder if it's healthy that, reading that someone was upset for someone's else's well being, their concerns are highlighted and effectively ridiculed - rather than trying to understand why that person may feel that way.

Is this website dangerous? Depends on your outlook. But first and foremost, I'd feel concern for FF and would rather encourage her to talk about her concerns, than take action that may make them feel the more defensive.

And then I wonder, who is actually doing the questioning here? Is FF questioning someone else's faith and trying to persuade them to accept their own opinions? Is Avi questioning someone else's faith and trying to persuade us to accept their own opinions?

Is it possible to have a global interfaith community where people sometimes feel their worldview is challenged in a positive way?

 

[Dream]

It's more boredom than anger. There's little to be said for reading from a script and expecting the world to fall into line with your words. Fundamentalism is by its nature dogmatic (and usually intolerant) because its a doctrine of absolute irrefutable truth. They, not me, are the real separatists - they preach a 'for us or against us' black and white dogma that is hostile to the search for greater understanding.

It is a judgment call, and the person is not your responsibility. The real reason they are pressed to make a convert of you is to isolate them. Most of cult's stable growth over the long run will come through natural childbirth, not conversion. Cult leaders know this, and you are a calculated part of making the cult members feel isolated. I'm just telling you how it is for them, so that you can weaken the cult's grip on them when you see the opportunity.

 

[Dream]

Is it possible to have a global interfaith community where people sometimes feel their worldview is challenged in a positive way?

I think it is possible for everyone at certain times in our lives. There are times when it isn't. That is why the internet is one nice approach to is, whatever it is.

 

[wil]

The issue remains the same. Everyone believes their belief is right and others are wrong. I have the right philosophy, I have the right way to speak to G!d, only my way is the way to salvation, your going to hell, devil get behind me etc.

If we hold to these opinions/beliefs if we hold that tolerance of others beliefs is wrong we end up with less than interfaith.

The issue to me is we don't seek to understand others beliefs, but to get them to join our club.

 

[Gatekeeper]

Certain truth's can be found anywhere, in nearly any text ever written. Surely each of our paths can lead us out of the wilderness/desert (in time). Then again, if we are not willing to walk a straight and narrow line towards the green pastures, we will end up covering ground we've already trudged.

I think instead of leaning on our own understanding, we need to keep ourselves open to further insight, which will then help us move forward. Otherwise, we will only continue to walk an old down trodden path which ultimately ensnares our minds.

I think when we discard the many truth's that those of others faiths offer to mankind, that we have sabotaged ourselves, resiting working together so that we might move forward together as a collective whole. If we keep doing what we've always done, we'll continue to get what we always got.

 

[Vajradhara]

Namaste Avi,

thank you for the interesting question.

i've seen the very same sentiment expressed, at some point or another, on every religious website that i frequent. by and large such comments are directed towards members of a faith group that seem to not be in compliance with the sanctioned orthodoxy.

i've not given too much thought to the psychology behind such statements, for clearly they reflect upon the speaker more than anything else, yet it seems quite interesting to me... so i shall have to spend more time thinking about it.

i suppose there are two broad groups of beings that visit interfaith forums, those that want to learn about other traditions and those who have questions and doubts about their own (there are lots of others too but i'm keeping it simplified at this point).

if you are having doubts and come to an interfaith forum you will, invariably, encounter views which are contrary to the orthodoxy which may lead someone to consider a path outside of the orthodoxy. for beings which have a strong desire for others to adhere to the orthodoxy places like this would present an obstacle for the aforementioned beings.

this forum inparticular? who knows? we have some strongly opinionated people that participate here and it could be difficult for some of the more gentle beings to have their beliefs aggressively examined. perhaps that is to their benefit, however.


metta,

~v

 

[Dream]

this forum inparticular? who knows? we have some strongly opinionated people that participate here and it could be difficult for some of the more gentle beings to have their beliefs aggressively examined. perhaps that is to their benefit, however.

It might be good depending upon the situation. At the age of 16, the first time I went out on a group missionary activity, I encountered right in my own city, a Zen Buddhist. I gave him a tract and started to talk with him. He was a tourist and was with a friend, but he took the time to talk with me for just a few minutes. At the time I had never heard of such a creature as a Zen Buddhist, and I was particularly alarmed that a Budhhist of any kind might live in my area of the world. He posed questions about hell and other items which I had to agree were difficult to answer.

 

[China Cat Sunflower]

I think that FS was 100% correct. Belief creates hope. Rationality destroys belief, and with it hope. Truth lies in the utter destruction of hope, but nobody wants that. I screwed up. I wanted something rational to base my belief on. When I kicked all the fictional underpinnings out from under my belief-programming the whole thing collapsed and turned into dust. If you want to keep your hope don't question your belief. Just live it, don't think about it because I'm telling you that there is no Reason underlying belief. So STFU and do what you're told. Be a good little lemming, and forget about all those questions.

OTOH, you could cultivate the courage to look directly at the Truth. It hurts like hell, it leaves you no place to hide, no comfort, no security, no ultimate answers... but at least it's honest.

Chris