@ Administration: A PM I just recieved from Tao_Equus

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Avi said:
Indeed, there is a poster on the board who I believe posts ideas of a racist nature, and I do not propose banning him.
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Avi, I hope you're not talking about me. I have made some pretty anti-American comments lately, but I hope the argument that "the USA is not a race, the USA is a nation" is sufficient for me to get away with it.:eek: When I talk about the USA I am not talking about any particular race or ethnicity.

I'm actually talking more about nationality and politics. The difference between race and nationality is that race has to do with your ancestry while nationality has to do with your political affiliations and loyalties. The big question is, what do you do when you're the most powerful country in the world? Unfortunately, people don't seem to be interested in discussing the ethics of being a superpower nation and what to say and do to hold the USA accountable for being what it is.

When I make disparaging comments about the USA I'm not trying to insult, to be offensive or to humiliate. It's just my way of introducing topics of discussion. The anti-Americanism I put on the table is something I present for discussion and debate. I'm talking about politics.

There is a lot of anti-Americanism out there in the world. Don't people want to discuss it? Don't Americans want to express how they feel about it? Isn't it relevant? Aren't people interested?

I criticise the USA as a social, political and economic system with faults. If I talk about other countries/nationalities I will also talk about what they are as a social, political and economic system. I have no interest in their bodily appearance, ancestry, manners or bodily hygiene.

I'm not trying to be insulting, humiliating or offensive, I'm just pointing fingers, fault-finding and being judgmental.

But anyway . . . if this was wrong, I don't want you all to think I'm trying to find excuses. It's just that nobody has said anything to me about my anti-American comments being overly hostile. I thought it was ok because I was talking politics and nobody said it was not ok. So what was I to think and do? I didn't get into an argument with anyone about it. Well, maybe a few people (and it was more like a discussion than a heated argument), but never for long. Most of the time it was over in one or two posts.

I didn't run into any opposition over this. Nobody stopped me. There are quite a few members/users here who are American but they never seemed particularly disturbed or threatened by what I said. It was like anti-Americanism was accepted because it was already prominent elsewhere in the world . . . well, no, I mean, when you're a member of the most powerful country in the world, what can you expect? I was just preaching to the choirs.
 
Saltmeister said:
Avi, I hope you're not talking about me.
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Salty, of course I am not talking about you !!

If you read some of my recent posts and also from the summer, there has been some debate about Theosophy, which I believe is a racist philosophy.

But even despite that, I would not suspend anyone whose ideas I disagree with. I think the better approach is to show the false reasoning of their ideas, not necessarily to even that poster, but the other posters in this forum.
 
I actually think the most reasonable approach at this point is to suspend Tao for the "time already served", and re-instate his registration. :)

Since he was probably out at the pub all this time, when he returns he will just resume "business as usual" :D
 
Avi said:
I actually think the most reasonable approach at this point is to suspend Tao for the "time already served", and re-instate his registration. :)
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LOL! One day?!

Surely he needs more time away from us than that!
 
citizenzen said:
But what does "clear" have to do with it? Or is that a substituted word hiding something else?

That "joke" makes no sense to me. (As if a racist joke could ever make sense.)
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Maybe the joke is that the joke isn't clear. It's a joke about the joke itself.

c0de and Tao were communicating in some secret c0de. Then all of a sudden, out of the blue, Tao says something c0de doesn't understand. The trouble is, c0de didn't have the Tao to decipher the secret c0de, so he posted the message publicly so that we could decipher it for him.

Maybe this is the Tao for deciphering the secret c0de of the message/joke. Maybe that's the joke that's supposed to be clear once we have figured out the right Tao.

Darn it's so diametrically elemental. This is the dangerous dinner for which we have been waiting for so long.

What do you say, Ludvig? I'm asking you because you are one of my favourite posters. Has anyone got any more salt?
 
I think it's a matter of context, Avi - it wasn't a case of two buddies swapping something they'd find personal funny, but instead someone intentionally trying to be offensive to another member to the point of being threatening.

Tao Equus isn't here to defend himself, so I'd rather not discuss the matter - in fact, this thread was originally pulled as I prefer not to moderate in public. However, with an issue like this, I figured it was best to head off any rumours and recriminations from the start so it was clear as to why I acted.

The door isn't entirely closed on Tao coming back, but I've made it plain any return will be conditional on a better standard of behaviour, and it's necessary to keep him suspended from the site in the meantime to allow him time to cool off.

I figure if anyone has any specific questions, to PM them to myself - in the meantime, I'm very inclined to close this thread as I'm not at all comfortable with discussing issues relating to individual members, especially ones who cannot answer for themselves, which is also another reason for not moderating in public.
 
I always feel a chill running down my spine every time someone closes a thread. It's like someone pulling the power from your XBOX, Playstation or Nintendo. Disneyland and Wonderworld frozen.
 


Brian, I think it was a great idea to leave the thread open.

You sort of remind me of Barak Obama in the above picture :D.

And I think it might be the same solution to this problem. Just invite C0de and Tao over to your house to partake in some McEwan's and a Bud, and don't forget the fish and chippies and McDonald's, Hoho :D !
 
I said:
Tao Equus isn't here to defend himself, so I'd rather not discuss the matter...
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I'm with I,Brian.

Although the loss of a contributor like Tao could hardly go unnoticed, this was a matter that could have remained private. So I can understand locking the thread down.

There is, after all, nothing more to see here.
 
China Cat Sunflower said:
If Tao's gone I'm gone. Not for any political reason, just that without him around it isn't worth it.

Chris
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Actually, Chris, I'd miss the cantankerous coot if he never returned just as I'd miss you. But, this again reminds me of the point I was making in the thread I recently started, "Constructive Suggestion." In our rush to make counter-points or what we think of as a humerous, snappy response, if we don't consider whether our words are meant to cut, (I think the more heinous examples which come across that way of course reflect the intent to do so), we simply promote the pushing away of others. There needs to be more self-policing in that regard. But, unfortunately, if that does not occur, then there has to be externally imposed limits. earl
 
earl said:
In our rush to make counter-points or what we think of as a humerous, snappy response, if we don't consider whether our words are meant to cut...
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The words are intended to make you think.

The fact that they don't confirm a cherished belief leads you to believe that they were meant to hurt.

This is something I've often observed in this forum.
 
earl said:
Actually, Chris, I'd miss the cantankerous coot if he never returned just as I'd miss you. But, this again reminds me of the point I was making in the thread I recently started, "Constructive Suggestion." In our rush to make counter-points or what we think of as a humerous, snappy response, if we don't consider whether our words are meant to cut, (I think the more heinous examples which come across that way of course reflect the intent to do so), we simply promote the pushing away of others. There needs to be more self-policing in that regard. But, unfortunately, if that does not occur, then there has to be externally imposed limits. earl
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Good post, Earl. But I think there are several issues at play here.

I personally think that there should be at least two levels of moderation in this forum. In the religious forums, Abrahamic, Eastern, etc., they should be fairly closely moderated, and sarcastic and nasty comments deleted. People that are very religious should not be afraid to post their beliefs in those sub-forum.

In the other sub-forum: B&S, Science and Politics, I think more leeway should be given. If posters want to participate in these forums they should expect to be challenged and disagreed with. These sub-forum should be more loosely moderated.

These issues should be stated in the code of conduct and forum rules, so that everyone knows this.

With respect to Tao, what he did was wrong, but it was not a suspendable offense. He knew the boundaries and stayed within them. If we want to be very technical, C0de should be the one suspended, because he was the one who posted the racist joke. Further, I do not believe he felt threatened by that joke. I believe he posted it to get Tao suspended and Brian should have seen through that ploy.
 
citizenzen said:
The words are intended to make you think.

The fact that they don't confirm a cherished belief leads you to believe that they were meant to hurt.

This is something I've often observed in this forum.
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How self-aware are you CZ when you post provocatively? You say it's to make others think. What do you know that others don't? ;) earl
 
earl said:
How self-aware are you CZ when you post provocatively? You say it's to make others think. What do you know that others don't? ;) earl
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What do I know? I know you've got to wade through a lot of B.S. to get to the truth.

That's the message I'm trying to spread.

If it isn't enlightenment, throw it out and keep moving forward.
 
Avi said:
With respect to Tao, what he did was wrong, but it was not a suspendable offense. He knew the boundaries and stayed within them. If we want to be very technical, C0de should be the one suspended, because he was the one who posted the racist joke. Further, I do not believe he felt threatened by that joke. I believe he posted it to get Tao suspended and Brian should have seen through that ploy.
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The problem is it was not intended as a joke, but there's potential malicious intent there.

Additionally, racial abuse is illegal in the UK - if c0de were British, he could have reported the matter to the police here, resulting potential legal action against Tao, and possibly even IO as the publisher.

I know a lot of people from the US have "Free speech" as a cornerstone of their worldview, but it's a specifically American attitude. Here in the UK we have "free speech with responsibility" and IO carries the legal burden of responsibility for everything published on the site - whether in public or private.
 
i find it astonishing that anyone is defending tao's actions in this case - the guy made two racist remarks in one week, one to tao and one to me - in my case, he thought he could get away with it in public, presumably because it involved israel-bashing. he's already been banned once and he should know better.

i also find it astonishing that anyone is whinging about "due process". this isn't a courtroom, it isn't a public space, it is brian's forum, if you don't like the way he runs it, don't let the door hit you on the arse on your way out.

b'shalom

bananabrain
 
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