Religion in schools

[GlorytoGod]

You... Don't have to go to the shops on a Sunday... Just because they're open, you know?

people who work in retail do though and work bank holidays etc

 

[wil]

Yeah, sunday...funny thing is that we took Sunday because the Jews had Saturday and we also wanted to appease the sun worshippers so move it to and Sunday...hence when Islam came around they had to pick Friday...

But guess what....now yes everyone works...and occasionally has to work their 'sabbath' ....but they all or most also get other days of rest....if they choose to.

If I didn't have kids who have weekends off for school, I'd prefer having a weekday off, as more things are open to get stuff accomplished.

 

[Dogbrain]

Yeah, sunday...funny thing is that we took Sunday because the Jews had Saturday and we also wanted to appease the sun worshippers so move it to and Sunday.

To use your logic, that means that the Jews all worship Saturn or wish to placate Saturn worshippers, since that is what "Saturday" means.

The first widely used language of the Church was Greek. Riddle me a riddle: What is the Greek word that is translated as "Sunday" in English? What is that word's root? What does it mean? Do tell, please.

 

[17th Angel]

people who work in retail do though and work bank holidays etc

Retail "work" blows.... That is what I work in... Saturdays I'm jewish... And Sundays I'm christian... Last six years... No one... Seems... To have clicked, that there is something funny going on there.... lol.

Yeah, sunday...funny thing is that we took Sunday because the Jews had Saturday and we also wanted to appease the sun worshippers so move it to and Sunday...hence when Islam came around they had to pick Friday...

The muslims get Friday???? I am going to have to notify our head office I'm a muslim and cannot work Fridays... Sweet. Down to 4 days a week now.

But guess what....now yes everyone works...and occasionally has to work their 'sabbath' ....but they all or most also get other days of rest....if they choose to.

If I didn't have kids who have weekends off for school, I'd prefer having a weekday off, as more things are open to get stuff accomplished.

Exactly.... If they -choose- to. So all in all sunday still is a day of rest... Or whatever day you want really...

If all else phails, pull a sicky: This motto was brought to you by XVII: Capture the dream!

Wil: I don't like one day off here then one day off in the weekend... A day is really... really short amount of time... And if I had to do a day here and day there I wouldn't feel it :/

I work under the influence of the herb and well I like to occasionally be so much under the influence I forget how to use my legs.... And make a nice dent shaped alex in the sofa and play some high speed racing games and such.... One day off? I couldn't manage this!

 

[wil]

To use your logic, that means that the Jews all worship Saturn or wish to placate Saturn worshippers, since that is what "Saturday" means.

The first widely used language of the Church was Greek. Riddle me a riddle: What is the Greek word that is translated as "Sunday" in English? What is that word's root? What does it mean? Do tell, please.

Namaste Dogbrain,

I'm not a Greek, nor was Italy when they decreed that the Sabbath be on what we today call Sunday, but during Constantine's time those worshipping the Sun also used the same day and so to install a conflict/solution that the day was chosen...or so I am to understand.

As was Christmas...Christ's birthday moved from spring/summer to December to coincide with another baccanalian festival...now I know you guys are a few days off of us...

But I don't have a need for your riddles, shoot away if it pleases you, I don't dance to your drummer, but if you have info to add, I'll gladly listen.

 

[Saltmeister]

im only 6 years out of primary school and i remember quite clearly that for day one we where encouraged to be christian. at least once a week a minister would come and preach.

By "6 years out of primary school" do you mean Grade 6 or six years old?

Il have you know that i am almost 18. and looking forward to it. going to celebrate in a very Scotish way

Oh really? Oh I get it. You meant you were in "Year 12" (that's what they call it here). That's what you meant by six years out of primary school but I think that's a rather awkward way of saying six years into secondary school.

Pluss im Tao's son. he got me into this website i find its quite usefull for when thiinking about stuff before doing my Religeos Moral and Philisophical studys homework

Well, I had also the sneaky suspicion you might be Tao pretending to be a little kid . . . um . . . just kidding. I better not joke around too much with Sammy in case he complains to his Dad.

I'm surprised that your Dad would let you attend a school that makes you adopt so many "Christian" practices. Does he really not have a choice? The one way I think he might accept this is if he sees this as part of a good education. You're learning what it's like to live in the world where you have to adopt "Christian" practices even if you don't like it.

In terms of religious servises we had no choice we had to go, and often it was just long speaches from a minister.

Really? Are you sure you're not going to a Catholic school? I can't imagine this happening at a public/government school. That wouldn't be allowed there. At least it shouldn't.

Do you think that in primary education religion should be taught no preached? or is it fair that the impressionable youth should be preached to by a single religion?

I attended non-compulsory "religious education" sessions in primary school, which were always for Christianity.

need to get spellchecker working on my browser. it seems to ignore ther type box on this site

I'm puzzled as to how after twelve years of schooling your posts still contain so many spelling mistakes! While sons don't always take after their fathers, with a Dad like Tao I wonder how this happened! I'm wondering if the comment about being 18 was really a joke. What if you're really a Grade 6 student? Some of the words you use do sound sophisticated . . . so maybe you are 18 . . . but the spelling . . . it's like you spent half your time being Joe the Plumber!

. . . or maybe this comes from spending too much time playing Doom, Duke Nukem 3D, Warcraft III and playing on your XBOX, Nintendo or Playstation.

. . . or maybe you really do attend a very religious school and its had an effect on your education.

 

[17th Angel]

I resent your XBOX statement :/

Do all christians fiddle with kids? :/ No? Then don't try to label 360 gamers as retards. Thanks

 

[Sam-i-am]

I'm puzzled as to how after twelve years of schooling your posts still contain so many spelling mistakes! While sons don't always take after their fathers, with a Dad like Tao I wonder how this happened! I'm wondering if the comment about being 18 was really a joke. What if you're really a Grade 6 student? Some of the words you use do sound sophisticated . . . so maybe you are 18 . . . but the spelling . . . it's like you spent half your time being Joe the Plumber!

. . . or maybe this comes from spending too much time playing Doom, Duke Nukem 3D, Warcraft III and playing on your XBOX, Nintendo or Playstation.

. . . or maybe you really do attend a very religious school and its had an effect on your education.

Ok...this one made me laugh. My spelling is better when im actually writing out with pen ect. I tend to rush while typing (as a result of playing many online games) and i supose the main reason my spelling is so bad is that i never botherd to learn. Probibly should have.

As for the Christian bias primary schools. every single primary school in the area is exactly the same. and all the highschools are the same. The highschool that i attend has only 500 students. the next nearest one has about 300

 

[Saltmeister]

As for the Christian bias primary schools. every single primary school in the area is exactly the same. and all the highschools are the same. The highschool that i attend has only 500 students. the next nearest one has about 300

. . . and I thought the USA was more religious with its schools. Creationism vs. Evolution. . . . more religious than any other Western country. Praying to God in class.

In secondary school, I didn't get the non-compulsory "religious education" sessions. There were "more important" things for people to do (or so it seemed).

I'm surprised people haven't taken this to the Supreme Court complaining that Christianity is dominating their child's education. This would be something to complain about for a Jew, Buddhist, Wiccan, Muslim, Hindu or atheist.

 

[wil]

Prayers aren't in public school. They don't pray to G!d every day.

There is very little religious discussion in US public schools. The only sticky wicket I've encounterd (in my education, none, in my kids who are now 16...) is that actual point of creation is not discussed, neither the bang (after the bang ok, but what instigated the bang no) and the actual moment of creation of life (after this creation they speak of single cells to multi cells and evolution but not the actual moment of creation).

Now a private religious school is another matter, they are in control of what they teach, as the parents have paid to have their kids indoctrinated there.

 

[17th Angel]

I didn't go to a private primary school, but the headmaster was a catholic... I reckon that nutured my ways through my whole school life... we -had- to pray every day. We'd all gather in the hall... Very first thing in the morning after register... And after lunch. Lunch was another bull**** affair... We were not permitted to speak while eating lol... Well... We weren't meant to, but I've never held any respect or value on authoritive figures... Strangley a few years later the school suffered an arson attack... Then when the head master moved to a secondary school instead, oddly, that school too suffered heavy fire damage.

 

[Dogbrain]

I'm not a Greek, nor was Italy when they decreed that the Sabbath be on what we today call Sunday, but during Constantine's time those worshipping the Sun also used the same day and so to install a conflict/solution that the day was chosen...or so I am to understand.

Where are you getting this nonsense? There was no "decree" made in Italy. Indeed, Italy DID NOT RUN the Church. It only happened to be the seat of ONE OF MANY EQUAL PATRIARCHATES. Furthermore, the writings of Justin Martyr make it quite plain that Christians were meeting on Sundays CENTURIES before Constantine existed. Where are you getting your outlandish claims?

But I don't have a need for your riddles, shoot away if it pleases you, I don't dance to your drummer, but if you have info to add, I'll gladly listen.

In other words, you refuse to listen to anything that might upseat your ignorance.

 

[Dream]

Sam, like Wil says, our state schools don't permit the teachers to sponsor a religion. I'd assumed it was the same for you over there, but I was wrong. I'm familiar with religious schooling, and so I have a little advice in answer to your opening post.

First, don't try to change your teacher's opinion. They get that all the time from teenagers on every topic from pencils to glue to tight skirts, stuff that just doesn't matter. Basically, teachers are underpaid, under-respected and love their students, but the students do not appreciate it. Pretty much the all of the previous students in the world have ruined your chances to affect teacher opinion by moaning about almost every little thing they don't like. Teenagers simply don't listen, often don't want to be forced to think for themselves, and often don't have any investment in the school. That means teachers don't listen, which means you've got zero clout in an out and out disagreement with the establishment. The better way to make a difference is to get your parents involved.

If you must stand up to a teacher or the school; make sure you have the complete backing of all of your parents first. Without their assured and positive support, you will get nowhere. It is always assumed that your parents are in agreement with the school. Don't get involved in any student rebellion either, unless each involved student has his or her parent's direct support. You will just get expelled. Practically, its better if the parents do the standing up to the teacher instead of you, and then you can bravely shelter under their wings. Example: Corporal punishments like spanking. At my private religious school I received a spanking or two in the 1980's, but the school eventually reversed its policy of spanking due to parents complaining and suing. Schools respect parents, because parents respect school. If you want the school to respect your opinion, then convince your parents of your case.

Aside from that, make good grades and be respectful. Help your parents make their case. You want to show that teaching a religion is unnecessary, so be a better student than the religious students. Learn about and be aware of the school's traditions, and its history. Join the student government.

 

[sooty]

The rules in state schools should be clear and a non confessional (none biased) view of religious education should permeate. However, state voluntary aided religious schools have more flexibility to teach their view of religion (confessional). They argue that parents have chosen that school along with its religious teachings therefore end of story.

My personal view is that non confessional teaching of rs is good because it allows children to explore all religion, which is useful in a multi faith society. This does not mean Christianity is overlooked. The rules (locally agreed syllabuses) state that Christianity is the primary religion, but others should be taught sympathetically. Also more importantly, religion in schools should be more that just comparative religion, but also about ethics - abortion, euthanasia etc. All issues we should know about. The problems begin with some religious schools imposing religious views too harshly and not showing opposite viewpoints eg:Catholics do not approve of contraception, however some Catholic schools refuse to discuss this at all (what it is, why it is used, what the Church thinks, what other denominations think). I think it is healthier for religious schools to look at religions and then focus on their own views. That way the children get an overall view of all points of view/faiths.

 

[wil]

Where are you getting this nonsense? There was no "decree" made in Italy. Indeed, Italy DID NOT RUN the Church. It only happened to be the seat of ONE OF MANY EQUAL PATRIARCHATES. Furthermore, the writings of Justin Martyr make it quite plain that Christians were meeting on Sundays CENTURIES before Constantine existed. Where are you getting your outlandish claims?

In other words, you refuse to listen to anything that might upseat your ignorance.

Namaste DG,

I don't refuse to listen to anything. Well that isn't quite true, I don't have much use of bigotry.

Since Christ was only a few centuries before Constantine instead of getting so excited with your shift key why don't you tell us when and why Sunday was used, and educate us on your Greek entymology.

I think it is healthier for religious schools to look at religions and then focus on their own views. That way the children get an overall view of all points of view/faiths.

I think we in the US could benefit from a religous class so our kids learn about other relgions and not grow ujp in ignorance.

 

[john4dlg]

Religion can be thought at schools yet it can generate a lot of problems. You can not and should not teach christianity to a jewish child, judaism to a muslim child. So either you should find an instructor for each and every religion so that each child can choose what she wants or there can be a course like basics of religion where you teach the basics of each religion only.

 

[The Undecided]

In schools today many children are forced into a specific religion or faith, for example. im only 6 years out of primary school and i remember quite clearly that for day one we where encouraged to be christian. at least once a week a minister would come and preach. In terms of religious servises we had no choice we had to go, and often it was just long speaches from a minister. To forse the beliefs on young children is imoral is it not? how is a six year old going to choose their belifes just because a man in a suit told them. surley schools would be better to not preach any religion. they should teach varrious viewpoints from a veriaty of religions rather than (in my schools case) christianity. if the children so desire that they want to partake in any religeous assemblys then it should be purley optional. Being in my last year of highschool we still have to go to religious assemblys which is disgracefull if im honest. Im quite clearly an athiest and the school now that i and much of the school are athiests and yet we still have to partake. i have no problem with them having them i just wish that they didnt force it on thoughs of us that have no interest in the subject. and then are punished because of it.

My little sister is now in primary school and im pretty sure its still the same.

Do you think that in primary education religion should be taught no preached? or is it fair that the impressionable youth should be preached to by a single religion?

I think it is wrong to teach only one religion to school children, because they will end up thinking that all other religions are wrong or they will be turned off religion all together. I think that in Primary School children should be taught about other cultures, with a little about different religions, and at Secondary School children should be taught about different religions in more depth, with emphasis on the acceptance of other peoples points of view and choice of religion. No religion has a monopoly on theological thought, or the right to claim other religions to be false. We need to teach children to respect all people's faith, beliefs, and religion, or even if they have no faith at all.

 

[Dream]

The problems begin with some religious schools imposing religious views too harshly and not showing opposite viewpoints eg:Catholics do not approve of contraception, however some Catholic schools refuse to discuss this at all (what it is, why it is used, what the Church thinks, what other denominations think). I think it is healthier for religious schools to look at religions and then focus on their own views. That way the children get an overall view of all points of view/faiths.

I think I agree. If you want to entrust the future to kids, then you have to trust them a little.

I am not sure it is possible to give them an overall view of the faiths, however. 'Popes have tall hats' could be someone's overall view of Christianity, for example. Yes, that is an overview but not to most Christian's satisfaction. To engage a subject like religion you have to get students talking about its content, which is probably beyond the capability of someone who is not in the religion. An overview might not really help the students to have a judgment in that case. They would just learn factoids like 'Monks wear orange!'

 

[wil]

.... they will end up thinking that all other religions are wrong .... No religion has a monopoly on theological thought, or the right to claim other religions to be false.

Are you joking?

There is only one and true belief system and half of the world will agree with this and tell you it is theirs! And that they don't want their kids learning anything else...

I'm compelled to post it again...

On Children - Kahlil Gibran

Your children are not your children.
They are the sons and daughters of Life's longing for itself.
They come through you but not from you,
And though they are with you yet they belong not to you.
You may give them your love but not your thoughts,
For they have their own thoughts.
You may house their bodies but not their souls,
For their souls dwell in the house of tomorrow,
which you cannot visit, not even in your dreams.
You may strive to be like them,
but seek not to make them like you.
For life goes not backward nor tarries with yesterday.
You are the bows from which your children
as living arrows are sent forth.
The archer sees the mark upon the path of the infinite,
and He bends you with His might
that His arrows may go swift and far.
Let your bending in the archer's hand be for gladness;
For even as He loves the arrow that flies,
so He loves also the bow that is stable.

 

[The Undecided]

Are you joking?

There is only one and true belief system and half of the world will agree with this and tell you it is theirs! And that they don't want their kids learning anything else...

I'm compelled to post it again...

Where is the joke? And what religion are you referring to? I'm not sure what point your making. To decide that there is only one true belief system can lead to divisions between people. If you divide people, however big the religious collective, then an egotism can develop for those who believe themselves to be right, and a negative attitude can be caste on those who believe in a different religion. If religion divides people then it is not religion, it is sectarianism. It is better to think that I believe in one religion and others believe in other religions, no one is right, it is just personal preference.