The Serpent in the Garden of Eden

Back to the opening post, it's worth noting that snakes were revered in many animist (pagan) cultures, regarded as a symbold of learning and wisdom. In some accounts, the patterns on the backs of some snakes are connected to learning geomatry. The famous oracle at Delphi has a myth of Apollo killing a snake, which may represent the Dorians displacing native beliefs.

From my own readings, the suggestion is that the snake may be connected to older matriarchal belief systems, and derivative ones that may have been patriarchal but still leave women in high status positions.

With that perception, applied to the Genesis story in a reductionist way, the snake becomes a symbol of old ways, old beliefs, and empowered women. It hardly then becomes a surprise that the snake is able to convince Eve to eat the apple, thus condemning the old ways and matriachs through the new patriarchal god.

Just a somewhat comparative reading of the symbol. :)
 
Back to the opening post, it's worth noting that snakes were revered in many animist (pagan) cultures, regarded as a symbold of learning and wisdom. In some accounts, the patterns on the backs of some snakes are connected to learning geomatry. The famous oracle at Delphi has a myth of Apollo killing a snake, which may represent the Dorians displacing native beliefs.

From my own readings, the suggestion is that the snake may be connected to older matriarchal belief systems, and derivative ones that may have been patriarchal but still leave women in high status positions.

With that perception, applied to the Genesis story in a reductionist way, the snake becomes a symbol of old ways, old beliefs, and empowered women. It hardly then becomes a surprise that the snake is able to convince Eve to eat the apple, thus condemning the old ways and matriachs through the new patriarchal god.

Just a somewhat comparative reading of the symbol. :)
Good points. However Genesis 3:14-15 makes one ponder the concept of the matriarchal leadership, when it seems that the "woman" is the one that "crushes the head of the serpent, while the serpent strikes her heel". Comments on that?

Genesis 3: 14-15 "And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:
15And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel."

I also notice there are drawings of "Mary", with a serpent under her feet, as if to strike her heel, while her foot is slightly lifted as if to crush its head...


Just curious.

Q
 
Rationally when I studied Christian Mythology (scripture), I found it to be the work of tens of mentally disturbed people.

We are educated now (some of us) and understand the fact of biological evolution. Humans did not become humans in a sudden event of magical conjuring. You cannot draw a line that separates human animals from non-human animals.

From Pierolopithecus to Sahalanthropus to Ardipithecus to Australopithecus to Homo habilis to Homo erectus to Homo heidelbergensis to Homo antecessor to Homo sapiens and Homo neanderthalis to Homo sapiens sapiens one cannot draw a line saying that Homo sapiens became human while his parents were Homo antecessor. The transition was over 15 million years from Pierolopithecus to Homo sapiens was so long and gradual a magical creation makes no sense.

Modern humans began in Africa and in 100,000 on, migrated out of Africa to Eurasia, Australia, and the Americas.

Humans did not know from where they came. Some leaders suggested a Super Entity called God. In addition, all other animals were animated by magical forces (neither energy nor matter.)

Gradually War Lords learned that by redesigning this fictional god into a violent, vindictive, homicidal, oppressive, controlling tyrant. Tribal order was maintained under a fearful, cruel god (worse than Cthulhu.)

Thus, the metaphorical story in Genesis is an attempt to propagate this monster god. One form of oppression is to keep people meek, fearful, and stupid. The message of Genesis is God forbidding humans to ask questions, to inquire, to learn, and to reason. Humans were to remain Homo erectus. Evolution to Homo sapiens was a grave sin against God.

The Serpent is the tragic hero who saves humanity by urging them to inquire, to learn, and to reason. (That is eating the fruit of knowledge.)

However, the warlords did not give up. They have continued to oppress their slave like population by propagating the Genesis Myth (Judaism and Islamo-Christianity.) The Serpent or Satan fights for human freedom and dignity. Although he is also fictional, he represents the inner strength of enslaved humans to fight for freedom.

Ever since Moses started the Bible in about 1500 to 1200 BCE, humanity has not won the war for freedom. Freedom was practically dead for a millennium from 400 AD to past 1400 AD. Only with the renaissance and enlightenment did humans approach their name "sapiens". The Age of Science has given humans the truth about who we are and from where we came. We now know we came from an Ape family back as far as 15 million BCE and a primate family back to Carpolestes simpsoni (Palaeocene primate-like with 5 digits including opposable thumbs.

The true story is so much more beautiful and wonderful seen in the natural laws. We were bullied into belief in some inane magical conjuring words by an undefined Cosmic Creator who loves killing us.

Amergin
 
Then again it could mean exactly what it says, who will ever know?

I know, lets all make up interpretations

  • which fit in with what ever it is we want to believe,
  • and confirms what ever it is that we want confirmed
I think it means that everyone should be generally nice to each other and supportive and that there is a God who is nice but we can't really understand him and rabbits are fluffy and dogs sometimes bite. and ....and and ....

do me a favour,

its a fairy story, which sometimes do have deeper meanings, but no-one really knows what they were.
 
My view is that the serpent represents our 'personal, self serving desires, or rather self will. When Eve was tempted, it is my view that she was simply tempted by her own selfishness, or rather the part existing in mankind that is self seeking.

Eve deceived herself into believing that she would become as God ... All wise/all knowing/all powerful, etc. The only evil that came as a result of her disobedience was the evil that each of us possess and allow to consume us daily (Self-ish will).

Our selfish nature is the root of all evil (Imo) and is in direct opposition to Gods will for us (Lust vs. Love). The flesh, which represents 'self will' (lust) is in opposition to the Spirit (Love) which represents 'Gods will'.

We are but dust and ashes, no? We were created from the dust of the earth according to scripture. The serpent was cursed to consume the dust of the earth for the rest of his days. Are we not consumed by our selfish desires daily? Are we (Who are made from the dust of the ground) not consumed by our personal, self serving desires?

The serpent is simply the part of our nature that is self serving. It is that part of us that is disobedient to Gods will. It is that part of us that is in opposition to God.

In the beginning God declared all things very good. Our free will to choose is not a bad thing, as I believe it was not only necessary that we disobey God, but also preordained. I believe this because our hardships ultimately lead us closer to God.

We learn from our past (If we are wise), whereby we soon choose what is right, and good, and pleasing to God (On our own vocation). Our entire lives are a struggle between our will (Lust) and Gods will (Love), which is why Christ said we must die to self (Lust), and be reborn of the Spirit (Love).

Another topic I'd love to discuss further,

GK


Man's flesh was formed with genetic sins that give power to deceive his thoughts. This makes man worship these distorted thoughts instead of the true God. This is why Adam and Eve stopped undertanding the truth of God and continued in their disobedience to God's will for them. Before Jesus came to die for the sins of all people, it was still possible to have faith in God if they obeyed his spoken Word. The prophets were given faith by God because of their obedience to his Word.
 
God knew when he created us what would happen,he knew what our intellect and curiosity would have us do. If he didn't know then he wouldn't be God,so yes he created finite,flawed beings.
 
God created man and woman by conjuring magic words in 4004 BCE. He placed two trees in the garden. One was the tree of Life. The other was the Tree of Knowledge. The serpent in the mythical Garden of Eden had an important purpose.

Most humans with healthy brain circuits have a perpetual hunger for knowledge. Supposedly, God made human have a powerful desire to acquire knowledge, to know how things worked, to know how we came to exist, and to know how the Earth and Sky came to exist. God told them that he (God) spoke magic words bringing everything into existence.

Why did God create the human brain with that thirst for knowledge, so much more demanding than other animals? Did he want humans to seek knowledge through observation, study, and rational-analytical thinking?

He apparently did not want them to gain knowledge. He put them in a dilemma of a big Sting Operation. He would forbid them from seeking knowledge (eating the fruit of the tree of knowledge.) Yet he put that tree in the centre of the garden. Why?

God invented serpents. One serpent supposedly had intelligence, speech, reasoning, and some understanding of human desire for knowledge. Why did God put such a serpent in the Garden to tempt Adam and Eve to seek knowledge when he (God) had forbidden knowledge and inquiry? I cannot think of a sensible reason except that God was sadistically playing with his human pets much like a bad little boy does tormenting butterflies or earthworms.

The serpent tells Adam and Eve to improve their status by gaining knowledge (eat the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge) a metaphorical or allegorical magic story. God was angry when Adam and Eve sought knowledge and threw them out of the Garden.

Adam and Eve had lived a protected Hunter-gatherer existence in a garden of plenty. However, once they sinned and were thrown out, they culturally evolved. They were forced by circumstances to find more food than simple hunter gathering produced. One poor game season and the tribe might starve to death.

So humans enhanced their survival by capturing and breeding the former game animals into captive animals saved for food, without the dangers and uncertainties of old time hunter gathering. This was the second great stage of human cultural evolution, i.e. pasturage. Men moved with the large migrating herds, protecting them from carnivores so they could be slaughtered for food when needed.

They found edible plants, like cereals and tubers. Instead of just eating them until they ate the entire field, the smarter ones observed that seeds falling on ground grew up into seed bearing plants, apple seeds grew into trees, etc. Therefore, humankind started planting seeds. They improved the seed's chances by ploughing the ground, use of animal fertiliser, and eventually crop rotation. This allowed food storage and permit larger populations. It allowed specialisation of occupations by tribal members. They could have toolmakers, house builders, traders, vendors, and even some who had time for art, poetry, sculpture that added to the joy of living.

Moreover, this they owed to an unnamed Serpent in a place vague in memory, a garden of endless plenty that required no work, no ploughing fields, no moving with herds. In their fragmented memory and folk tales, they "remember" the magic garden in which they had plenty of food and water without the need to sweat in the hot sun ploughing a hardscrabble field.

What did we do wrong? Why do we have to sweat and exhaust ourselves in the hot sunlight? Why did we lose the mythical garden of plenty?

Oh, a powerful God expelled us from the garden of plenty. We must have sinned. The sin made the jealous and vindictive god, expel us from the Garden. What sin would make the Jealous, narcissistic, violent, and vindictive god so angry?

It likely was not masturbation, sex, pissing on the roses, lying about the size of a melon on the south end of the Garden, or throwing stones at the squirrels.

It had to be something threatening or challenging God's knowledge by inquiring. Ha! Eating the fruit of the tree of knowledge is a biblical allegory telling primitive humans that God forbade seeking knowledge. Man with knowledge would "become like us" (Gods.) This would be a challenge to God.

The serpent is the hero who though cast as a villain, actually was a savour of the human race because he stood for courage, independence, inquiry, learning, and scepticism of assumptions.

Amergin
 
God created man and woman by conjuring magic words in 4004 BCE. He placed two trees in the garden. One was the tree of Life. The other was the Tree of Knowledge. The serpent in the mythical Garden of Eden had an important purpose.

Most humans with healthy brain circuits have a perpetual hunger for knowledge. Supposedly, God made human have a powerful desire to acquire knowledge, to know how things worked, to know how we came to exist, and to know how the Earth and Sky came to exist. God told them that he (God) spoke magic words bringing everything into existence.

Why did God create the human brain with that thirst for knowledge, so much more demanding than other animals? Did he want humans to seek knowledge through observation, study, and rational-analytical thinking?

He apparently did not want them to gain knowledge. He put them in a dilemma of a big Sting Operation. He would forbid them from seeking knowledge (eating the fruit of the tree of knowledge.) Yet he put that tree in the centre of the garden. Why?

God invented serpents. One serpent supposedly had intelligence, speech, reasoning, and some understanding of human desire for knowledge. Why did God put such a serpent in the Garden to tempt Adam and Eve to seek knowledge when he (God) had forbidden knowledge and inquiry? I cannot think of a sensible reason except that God was sadistically playing with his human pets much like a bad little boy does tormenting butterflies or earthworms.

The serpent tells Adam and Eve to improve their status by gaining knowledge (eat the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge) a metaphorical or allegorical magic story. God was angry when Adam and Eve sought knowledge and threw them out of the Garden.

Adam and Eve had lived a protected Hunter-gatherer existence in a garden of plenty. However, once they sinned and were thrown out, they culturally evolved. They were forced by circumstances to find more food than simple hunter gathering produced. One poor game season and the tribe might starve to death.

So humans enhanced their survival by capturing and breeding the former game animals into captive animals saved for food, without the dangers and uncertainties of old time hunter gathering. This was the second great stage of human cultural evolution, i.e. pasturage. Men moved with the large migrating herds, protecting them from carnivores so they could be slaughtered for food when needed.

They found edible plants, like cereals and tubers. Instead of just eating them until they ate the entire field, the smarter ones observed that seeds falling on ground grew up into seed bearing plants, apple seeds grew into trees, etc. Therefore, humankind started planting seeds. They improved the seed's chances by ploughing the ground, use of animal fertiliser, and eventually crop rotation. This allowed food storage and permit larger populations. It allowed specialisation of occupations by tribal members. They could have toolmakers, house builders, traders, vendors, and even some who had time for art, poetry, sculpture that added to the joy of living.

Moreover, this they owed to an unnamed Serpent in a place vague in memory, a garden of endless plenty that required no work, no ploughing fields, no moving with herds. In their fragmented memory and folk tales, they "remember" the magic garden in which they had plenty of food and water without the need to sweat in the hot sun ploughing a hardscrabble field.

What did we do wrong? Why do we have to sweat and exhaust ourselves in the hot sunlight? Why did we lose the mythical garden of plenty?

Oh, a powerful God expelled us from the garden of plenty. We must have sinned. The sin made the jealous and vindictive god, expel us from the Garden. What sin would make the Jealous, narcissistic, violent, and vindictive god so angry?

It likely was not masturbation, sex, pissing on the roses, lying about the size of a melon on the south end of the Garden, or throwing stones at the squirrels.

It had to be something threatening or challenging God's knowledge by inquiring. Ha! Eating the fruit of the tree of knowledge is a biblical allegory telling primitive humans that God forbade seeking knowledge. Man with knowledge would "become like us" (Gods.) This would be a challenge to God.

The serpent is the hero who though cast as a villain, actually was a savour of the human race because he stood for courage, independence, inquiry, learning, and scepticism of assumptions.

Amergin

The forbidden knowledge spoken of in Genesis is simply the knowledge of evil. Without knowing evil we would know only good. On the same note the knowledge of evil also gives us an understanding of what is good (It provides contrast), hence its name "The tree of knowledge of good and evil".

The only reason this knowledge was 'forbidden' is because evil is useless, unpleasant, harmful to our kind, and it ultimately makes the world an ugly, dangerous, and volatile place to live. Without evil the world would be a paradise.

In order to truly know something like evil, you must experience it first hand. Otherwise all you have is a concept with no substance. It's much like reading about the Vietnam war. You gain some insight, but unless you were there to experience it you really haven't a clue what it was truly like.

God didn't warn against having a concept of evil, but rather he warned against the knowledge of evil, or rather he warned against acting in a manner that would allow evil to manifest on earth whereby we would be forced to experience its effects.

The story is metaphorical in its entirety. There was no literal tree able to impart evil, but there was mankind who was able to act with evil intent, which is how evil manifest on earth.

The tree of knowledge of good and evil simply represents a way or path in which man lives and acts either through indifference, such as Eve giving no thought to Adams well being in the story, or through evil intent. This way or "path" is in opposition to the path (Tree) of life, which represents living and acting through love, care, and concern for our fellow man.

It seems to me that life would have been much more pleasant without the knowledge of evil, and a great deal easier on the heart. In the end, the Genesis account of the fall applies to us even today. I think most people are largely unaware that both metaphorical trees are still in the midst of the garden, and that we remain also.

We ultimately choose which path to follow, whether we choose blindly or with understanding. We can care for those we share our world with and live our lives in a manner beneficial to others, or we can live with an indifferent heart and live our lives only for self. Both trees (Paths) are relevant even in today's world, yet few there be who walk that strait and narrow.

I myself prefer to look at the story in terms of wise and unwise, which is ultimately what good and evil boils down to. When we look at humanity as being a single unit as opposed to mankind being separate from one another, we can then see what is wise and unwise for us collectively.

Who knows exactly what the first humans did, but evil (That which is unwise) does not come to pass unless a person acts selfishly, not considering the well being of others. We are in this life together. It was like that in the beginning and it is like that today. Why do you think we are reaping what was sowed by the first humans?

Just as the first of humanity were responsible for us, so are we responsible for our future generations. Good and evil or rather wise and unwise actions effect us all, which is why we need to have concern for, and care for those we share the world with. Otherwise our children and our grandchildren are going to be in the same mess we are in, and that's the entire point of the story of the fall of man.

I can hear God now speaking to Amergin, "Pursue evil if that's your hearts desire, but don't say you were not warned". The fact of the matter that we simply experienced the law of cause and effect. There was no literal banishment from the garden, there was only the consequences of our misguided deeds.

GK
 
God created man and woman by conjuring magic words in 4004 BCE. He placed two trees in the garden. One was the tree of Life. The other was the Tree of Knowledge. The serpent in the mythical Garden of Eden had an important purpose.

Most humans with healthy brain circuits have a perpetual hunger for knowledge. Supposedly, God made human have a powerful desire to acquire knowledge, to know how things worked, to know how we came to exist, and to know how the Earth and Sky came to exist. God told them that he (God) spoke magic words bringing everything into existence.

Why did God create the human brain with that thirst for knowledge, so much more demanding than other animals? Did he want humans to seek knowledge through observation, study, and rational-analytical thinking?

He apparently did not want them to gain knowledge. He put them in a dilemma of a big Sting Operation. He would forbid them from seeking knowledge (eating the fruit of the tree of knowledge.) Yet he put that tree in the centre of the garden. Why?

God invented serpents. One serpent supposedly had intelligence, speech, reasoning, and some understanding of human desire for knowledge. Why did God put such a serpent in the Garden to tempt Adam and Eve to seek knowledge when he (God) had forbidden knowledge and inquiry? I cannot think of a sensible reason except that God was sadistically playing with his human pets much like a bad little boy does tormenting butterflies or earthworms.

The serpent tells Adam and Eve to improve their status by gaining knowledge (eat the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge) a metaphorical or allegorical magic story. God was angry when Adam and Eve sought knowledge and threw them out of the Garden.

Adam and Eve had lived a protected Hunter-gatherer existence in a garden of plenty. However, once they sinned and were thrown out, they culturally evolved. They were forced by circumstances to find more food than simple hunter gathering produced. One poor game season and the tribe might starve to death.

So humans enhanced their survival by capturing and breeding the former game animals into captive animals saved for food, without the dangers and uncertainties of old time hunter gathering. This was the second great stage of human cultural evolution, i.e. pasturage. Men moved with the large migrating herds, protecting them from carnivores so they could be slaughtered for food when needed.

They found edible plants, like cereals and tubers. Instead of just eating them until they ate the entire field, the smarter ones observed that seeds falling on ground grew up into seed bearing plants, apple seeds grew into trees, etc. Therefore, humankind started planting seeds. They improved the seed's chances by ploughing the ground, use of animal fertiliser, and eventually crop rotation. This allowed food storage and permit larger populations. It allowed specialisation of occupations by tribal members. They could have toolmakers, house builders, traders, vendors, and even some who had time for art, poetry, sculpture that added to the joy of living.

Moreover, this they owed to an unnamed Serpent in a place vague in memory, a garden of endless plenty that required no work, no ploughing fields, no moving with herds. In their fragmented memory and folk tales, they "remember" the magic garden in which they had plenty of food and water without the need to sweat in the hot sun ploughing a hardscrabble field.

What did we do wrong? Why do we have to sweat and exhaust ourselves in the hot sunlight? Why did we lose the mythical garden of plenty?

Oh, a powerful God expelled us from the garden of plenty. We must have sinned. The sin made the jealous and vindictive god, expel us from the Garden. What sin would make the Jealous, narcissistic, violent, and vindictive god so angry?

It likely was not masturbation, sex, pissing on the roses, lying about the size of a melon on the south end of the Garden, or throwing stones at the squirrels.

It had to be something threatening or challenging God's knowledge by inquiring. Ha! Eating the fruit of the tree of knowledge is a biblical allegory telling primitive humans that God forbade seeking knowledge. Man with knowledge would "become like us" (Gods.) This would be a challenge to God.

The serpent is the hero who though cast as a villain, actually was a savour of the human race because he stood for courage, independence, inquiry, learning, and scepticism of assumptions.

Amergin
God, created man and woman by DNA sequences that eventually evolved into an intelligent man and an intelligent woman. Adam and Eve became "personal" to the Creator. Maybe the first modern humans, maybe not, but they mattered to God, and for some reason these two set the stage for the rest of humanity. It isn't only in the Christian Bible that this story is set Amerigin. And no one is stating that the Christian Bible is the only book in town..."never did".

If you were to start this game, I'm certain you would have started it differently. But you aren't...so you have to go by the rules as cast. It doesn't matter what you think or rebel about, what is, is. And it was cast thousands of years before you existed.

And frankly, Jesus' offer of salvation...man, how can one ignore that? I mean, what does one have to lose?
 
God, created man and woman by DNA sequences that eventually evolved into an intelligent man and an intelligent woman. Adam and Eve became "personal" to the Creator. Maybe the first modern humans, maybe not, but they mattered to God, and for some reason these two set the stage for the rest of humanity. It isn't only in the Christian Bible that this story is set Amerigin. And no one is stating that the Christian Bible is the only book in town..."never did".

It is one of the best books detailing mankind's attempt to answer philosophical questions with imagination, speculation, and myth. That is understandable for Stone Age humans still culturally and socially evolving. My view is simply my opinion of what Genesis means. Until the modern scientific age, it was the one source of a world view even if it was mythical. It served a purpose.

If you were to start this game, I'm certain you would have started it differently. But you aren't...so you have to go by the rules as cast. It doesn't matter what you think or rebel about, what is, is. And it was cast thousands of years before you existed.

I would not have started it at all. I just study the best theories on how it all happened based on evidence. Genesis gives an explanation that made sense to the Bronze Age Jewish people. Hindus and Mayas had a different version. I believe the writings with all of the metaphors and allegories unfortunately have been selfishly distorted to fit the schemes of War Lords. Genesis was first of all to give the Jewish people an explanation that would fill in a world view. The second was how the allegory was distorted by those in power to get people of the tribe to submit, obey, to not question authority, and fear a violent, vindictive god if they did not submit to the warlord who spoke for God. This is why I think certain elements of the story were essential. The Tree of Knowledge of good and evil. A person cannot survive with only a knowledge of good. Good can only be understood by understanding its opposite, evil.

With a form of knowledge only of good, there can be no free will. However, I think it was intentionally put in Genesis not by God but by power seeking chiefs and war lords. The lesson is do not seek or inquire knowledge not found in scripture. Obedience and submission are important to the war lord. Free Will can lead to dissent, refusal to fight the neighbouring tribe, enforce the warlord's orders even if it meant killing someone. The sin of seeking knowledge leads to a choice of A or B and the war lord wants only A. The story is intended to support obedience of the common people. Napoleon Bonaparte called religion the best way to keep the common people quiet.

And frankly, Jesus' offer of salvation...man, how can one ignore that? I mean, what does one have to lose?

I see not compelling reason to believe that the Jesus of the Gospels would really send people to Hell for not believing correctly and literally. Jesus' offer of salvation was to promote a life style and personal philosophy that was good and altruistic. Salvation through Jesus meant by being as much like Jesus as possible. He never condemns anyone in the Gospels that I know of. He is positive to all, even "sinners." I do not think he advocates the legalistic and tyrannical religion of rules that became Christianity in the 4th and 5th centuries.

When I read about Jesus, I get the "feeling" that he is not the Tyrant of Revelations but the altruistic humanist of the Sermon on the Mount.

Amergin
 
I mean no disrespect by considering Jesus purely human and not a deity. I doubt that there were ever deities. I think deification negatively distracts from what Jesus is telling us. Deification led to a new religion whose moral record was dismal.

I am an Atheist (I lack a belief in any personal or humanoid gods.) The Creative force though not yet fully understood so far seems to be natural physical laws of energy and energy composed mass. Lets not get into Quantum Physics, I struggled with that in college. Now new theories and empirical data change what I once learned.

I believe some not well understood what caused the Big Bang. We know that particle pop into and out of existence from nothingness. I might call that God, a purely natural force more complex than evolved bipedal thinking apes who became us. We understandably assumed God was like us (a cosmic human with a human personality.) Fewer people believe in that somewhat clearly mythological god. There can a force or unified force for everything. Who is to say that it is no more than an overly complex primate brain with neuronal circuits? We think a conscious being is the highest thing in the cosmos. Maybe the higher things are above consciousness. Conscious cognition is an evolved brain based behaviour found only in animals like us as far as we know. Do not assume that Consciousness is the top of the cosmic food chain.

Amergin
 
We think a conscious being is the highest thing in the cosmos. Maybe the higher things are above consciousness. Conscious cognition is an evolved brain based behaviour found only in animals like us as far as we know. Do not assume that Consciousness is the top of the cosmic food chain.
I am quite surprised to see your trend of thought because this is similar to certain school of thoughts in Buddhism.
 
I'm not sure if I've mentioned it in this thread or another, but I find repeated suggestions that during Neolithic times human societies around Europe tended to be matriarchal in some form.

And in each instance of matriachal power being referenced, there's usually a reference to snake as an object of veneration.

From a research piece I read on Meso-American beliefs, the snake is regarded as a teacher, specifically because of the different geometric patterns upon their body. Hence through copying the patterns you have early stylised art and even the building blocks of geometry.

Therefore it hardly seems surprising that Genesis relates together Eve and the snake, with a possible interpretation of this being a metaphor for earlier matriarchal systems and Eve being forced to reject them in order to accept a more patriachial system.

You can see similar references in the story Apollo slaying the Python of Delphi.
 
Brian that is an interesting idea. I want to mention something that Seattlegal said about the snake & Egyptian mythology and about ancient images of the snake. What is interesting to me is that bastet (cat) is female, and the apep (snake) is male. (By-the-way where can you read about how to know whether a given ancient European society was definitely a matriarchy? ) I have not checked with Egyptology sources to verify what she said, but the pictures seem to go along with it. If you search for images you will find ancient Egyptian paintings of large cats cutting the heads off of snakes or trampling upon their heads. One of those images also has a tree next to the cat and snake and an orange sword with its paw pressing the snake's head to the ground, which for me rings a bell. I do know know what kind of tree is in the drawing.

Seattlegal said:
Apep, the serpent of chaos, was supposed to be slain every night so the sun could rise in the morning, since he tried to interfere with Ra's night time journey through the underworld. Many different gods and goddesses, including Set, took turns slaying Apep, not just Bastet.

apep_2.jpg


bast3n.jpg
 
Brian that is an interesting idea. I want to mention something that Seattlegal said about the snake & Egyptian mythology and about ancient images of the snake. What is interesting to me is that bastet (cat) is female, and the apep (snake) is male. (By-the-way where can you read about how to know whether a given ancient European society was definitely a matriarchy? ) I have not checked with Egyptology sources to verify what she said, but the pictures seem to go along with it. If you search for images you will find ancient Egyptian paintings of large cats cutting the heads off of snakes or trampling upon their heads. One of those images also has a tree next to the cat and snake and an orange sword with its paw pressing the snake's head to the ground, which for me rings a bell. I do know know what kind of tree is in the drawing.



apep_2.jpg


bast3n.jpg

Hi Dream. :)

That tree is called the Ished.
 
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