American Christians protest mosque at 9-11 site

Okay... now in a second thread I ask the question...

What would you like Rudy Giuliani to say... or do?
Click to expand...

I thought it was a rhetorical question:


http://snltranscripts.jt.org/97/97gcabbie.phtml

Saturday Night Live, season23, episode 7

The 60-minute rerun version of this episode only shows a minute of the "Freakin' Giuliani" sketch where a cab driver (played by Rudolph Giuliani) complains about the changes in New York thanks to the mayor at the time (Giuliani). The sketch fades to black after the cab driver says, "Freakin' Giuliani!"

Air date: November 22, 1997

Friggin' Giuliani!

Irate Cabdriver.....Mayor Rudolph Guiliani
Fare #1.....Will Ferrell
Fare #2.....Ana Gasteyer
Fare #3.....Tracy Morgan
http://snltranscripts.jt.org/97/97gcabbie.phtml

​
[ open on interior, New York City taxi cab ]

Cabdriver: Where to?

Fare #1: Uh.. 14th and 3rd.

Cabdriver: You got it.

Recording: This is Richard Dreyfuss. Just buckle your seatbelt. Don't act like some bigshot. Just put it on. Now! [ eerie laughter ]

Fare #1: What the hell was that?

Cabdriver: Celebrities tellin' people to put their seatbelts on. The Mayor put a tape in every cab. Friggin' Guiliani! Can you believe what he did to 42nd Street?

Fare #1: Huh? Oh, yeah, it's great!

Cabdriver: Great? You gotta be kiddin'. I'll take porn over Disney any day! Friggin' Guiliani!

Fare #1: Well, he's just trying to clean up the city.

Cabdriver: Listen, I've lived in this city for forty-four years. I was born here, and I can tell ya, three things make New York great: crime, noise and porn!

Fare #1: You know, some people like a clean city.

Cabdriver: Where do you come from?

Fare #1: Boston.

Cabdriver: [ slams brakes ] Get outta my cab!

Fare #1: What?

Cabdriver: You heard me. Go back to Beantown, you hippie! [ Fare #1 exits the cab ]

Recording: This is Richard Dreyfuss again. Don't forget your belongings, or you'll be saying goodbye.. girl.. to your wallet. Just do it!

Cabdriver: [ honks horn ] Move it, you piece of garbage limo! [ slows down and picks up Fare #2 ]

Fare #2: 1236 Park Avenue, please.

Cabdriver: Well, la-dee-dah!

Fare #2: Eh-excuse me?

Cabdriver: Nothin', nothin', nothin'..

Recording: This is Bob Costas, reminding you to buckle up your seatbelt, to save and protect you. Like a young Willie Mayes reaching over his shoulder..

Fare #2: Can you shut this off?

Cabdriver: Sit tight, honey. It's almost over.

Recording: ..Hall of Fame glove. So, buckle up. Willie Mayes.. and.. Henry James, would have wanted it that way.

Fare #2: Doesn't that drive you crazy?

Cabdriver: What choice do I have? I'm driving double-shift on my brother-in-law's rented medallion. Friggin' Guiliani!

Fare #2: I'm sorry to hear that.

Cabdriver: The mayor says we have to buy a new cab every five years. He raised medallion rentals! I've been drivin' eighty hours straight just to break even!

Fare #2: Shouldn't you go home?

Cabdriver: I'll be fine. [ slowly dozes off ]

Fare #2: Wake up!

Cabdriver: Wha..? What..?

Fare #2: You should get some sleep.

Cabdriver: Guiliani should get some sleep!

Fare #2: That doesn't make any sense.

Cabdriver: Friggin' Guiliani!

Fare #2: Actually, I agree with you. Guiliani has placed too much emphasis on safety for the rich instead of programs for the poor.

Cabdriver: Really? Is that what you think? Where are you from?

Fare #2: I moved here a year ago from Chicago.

Cabdriver: [ slams brakes ] Get outta my cab!

Fare #2: Because I'm from Chicago?

Cabdriver: Yeah! Now, get out! And tell Michael Jordan he travels every time he dribbles the ball! [ Fare #2 exits the cab ]

Recording: It's time to leave.. and.. check your belongings.. and.. I'm reminded of the retirement of..

Cabdriver: [ bangs tape ] Shut up! Shut up! [ honks horn at pedestrian ] Stupid pedestrian! Move it, you *******! What are you, blind?

Voice of Pedestrian: Yes, I am blind!

Cabdriver: [ stunned ] I'm very sorry. I didn't know that. [ slows down and picks up Fare #3 ]

Fare #3: 87th and Columbus.

Cabdriver: You got it.

Recording: This is James Earl Jones. Buckle up your seatbelt or.. you.. will.. die! [ Fare #3 quickly buckles up ]

Cabdriver: [ laughing ] That's the only one that works!

Fare #3: Hey, stop by the Disney Store on the way, man, I wanna get my daughter some Flub-A-Lub.

Cabdriver: That's fine. I'll catch a peep show while I wait.

Fare #3: Word is bond?

Cabdriver: Friggin' Guiliani!

[ fade to black ]
 
What would one suppose NYC's Mayor Bloomberg to say... or do?

......................................................................................................
Mayor Bloomberg doesn't care where money to build Ground Zero mosque comes from

Mayor Bloomberg said he doesn't know where the planners of the proposed mosque and Islamic cultural center near Ground Zero will get the money to build -- and he doesn't care.
"People say, well, you know, 'Do they have the money? Can they raise the money? Where does it come from?' " the mayor said Friday on his WOR-AM radio show with John Gambling.
"I don't know, and government shouldn't -- do you really want every time they pass the basket in your church and you throw a buck in, they run over and say, 'Okay, now, you know, where do you come from? Who are your parents? Where'd you get this money?'
"No! This is just not -- and I can't for the life of me -- a handful of people ought to be ashamed of themselves."
Bloomberg gave an impassioned defense of the rights of the Park51 Islamic center this week after the Landmarks Preservation Commission gave the founders permission to tear down the existing structure on Park Place.
Organizers have not yet raised money to construct the proposed 13-story building.

Read more: Mayor Bloomberg doesn't care where money to build Ground Zero mosque comes from

.........................................................................
 
bhaktajan said:
What would one suppose NYC's Mayor Bloomberg to say... or do?
Click to expand...

Mayor Bloomberg should ask...

"Does the plan conform to zoning laws?"

"Does the plan meet building codes?"


If the answers are yes, then get out of the way and let them build their mosque.
 
A totalitarian goon is never happy unless government dictates every aspect of life.
 
Dogbrain said:
A totalitarian goon is never happy unless government dictates every aspect of life.
Click to expand...

That's not in my Tea-Bagger to English dictionary. :confused:

Could you do me the favor of translating that?

I can't conjugate your verbiage.
 
If you consider me a "tea-bagger", you are such a severe and ignorant bigot that any attempt to communicate with you is foredoomed.
 
Originally Posted by citizenzen
Freak'n Guiliani! Where are you?


Okay... now in a second thread I ask the question...

What would you like Rudy Giuliani to say... or do?

Probably something like:


“Of all the locations in the world, to build a 50 meter high edifice, to memorialized for all posterity, the memory of Mohamed, why should anyone choose to select the site of the most disgraceful, insulting, sinful, shocking, outrageous, scandalous, dishonorable, discreditable, reprehensible, appalling, disreputable, disgraceful, notorious, dishonest, deceitful, false, corrupt, and shameful historical event in the history of humanity to befall upon the honor of Islam?
 
bhaktajan said:
Of all the locations in the world, to build a 50 meter high edifice, to memorialized for all posterity, the memory of Mohamed, why should anyone choose to select the site of the most disgraceful, insulting, sinful, shocking, outrageous, scandalous, dishonorable, discreditable, reprehensible, appalling, disreputable, disgraceful, notorious, dishonest, deceitful, false, corrupt, and shameful historical event in the history of humanity to befall upon the honor of Islam?
Click to expand...

What a disgraceful, insulting, sinful, shocking, outrageous, scandalous, dishonorable, discreditable, reprehensible, appalling, disreputable, disgraceful, notorious, dishonest, deceitful, false, corrupt, and shameful statement!

I certainly hope that you don't share it, bhatajan.

Or else I'd have as low an opinion of you as I do of Rudy.
 
citizenzen said:
Or else I'd have as low an opinion of you as I do of Rudy.
Click to expand...

Reason #1: An effective leader should appeal to people's higher intentions — “There is nothing to fear but fear itself.” ~ Franklin D. Roosevelt — and not pander to their lowest fears, like Rudy.

Here's something that the opposition to the mosque, or gay marriage for that matter, will find out...

You can't deny somebody their rights just because you don't like them.

We're slowly getting that concept... slowly.
 
citizenzen said:
What a disgraceful, insulting, sinful, shocking, outrageous, scandalous, dishonorable, discreditable, reprehensible, appalling, disreputable, disgraceful, notorious, dishonest, deceitful, false, corrupt, and shameful statement!
Click to expand...

Brilliant :D
 
CZ,

I like the idea of comparing leaders who appeal to our higher principles vs. leaders who pander to our worst fears.
 
Raksha said:
Janz,

Thank you for posting this article. It presents an interesting perspective on Cordoba House, and one I haven't encountered before. I was involved in a debate about this project on another forum about a month ago, and there was quite a bit of knee-jerk Islamophobia to get out of the way before the liberals on that forum could get a clear picture of what Cordoba House was all about and how close it's going to be to Ground Zero (two blocks away).

As usual, the disinformation campaign was being driven by Christian fundamentalists who--as usual--were taking advantage of the situation to push their own brand of theocracy. They have no real interest in religious freedom.
Click to expand...

Exactly!

"Religious freedom is central to our nation..."

That is so true, and I'm very grateful that at least one American Muslim understands this. The REAL national religion of America is secular humanism, and it takes precedence over all others. Including your religion. Including my religion.

Freedom of religion is now very much under attack by the forces of theocracy, most of whom are trying to misrepresent America as a "Christian nation," which it never was and hopefully never will be--not if I have anything to say about it anyway.

--Linda
Click to expand...
I agree and I will be right there standing with you!

After doing more research and trying to understand the real issues going on here, I came across an interesting article in the New York Times:
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/14/nyregion/14mosque.html

Basically, for decades 2 mosques have existed within blocks of the World Trade Center and no one has said anything in protest. They are growing and need to expand their meeting place. From the article:

"Masjid Manhattan, on Warren Street, four blocks from ground zero, was founded in 1970. Masjid al-Farah, formerly on Mercer Street, moved to its present location on West Broadway, about 12 blocks from ground zero, in 1985. Both mosques — essentially one-room operations — routinely turn people away for lack of space.
When Masjid al-Farah moved into the neighborhood, the local Muslim community was tiny, said Sheikha Fariha. But it has expanded exponentially, especially with Muslims who work in the area, she said. Both mosques now welcome doctors, street vendors, real estate agents and service workers. The imam of the Masjid Manhattan has a day job in a nearby post office.
Lately, some of the spillover has been absorbed by prayer services held in the vacant Burlington Coat Factory store two blocks from the trade center site, by Imam Feisal Abdul al-Rauf, a longtime prayer leader at Masjid al-Farah. He plans to turn the site into a Muslim community center and mosque bitterly opposed by critics..."

I have been conflicted about this but after careful reconsideration, I do agree that they have the right to expand by building on private property and their plans have been approved by the powers that be in NYC including Mayor Michael R. Bloomberg who defended it as a symbol of America’s religious tolerance.

Here is another article worth considering: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/11/nyregion/11mosque.html?fta=y

The moment Sarah Palin and Newt "the Grinch" Gingrich opened their mouths to spew garbage, I knew that this issue had become another political football to be tossed around by the reactionary right wing who are the worst hypocrites since the time of the Pharisees.

And btw, for the first time since I have been a member of this forum, I have another member on IGNORE..meaning I cannot see any of their posts and will not respond. I will not name names but if I don't take your bait, it is because you don't exist. :eek:
 
More Food for Thought: Rev. Chloe Breyer: The Faithful Search: A Civics Primer for Real Patriots


"A good civics primer with its smattering of US history would show us, for example, that twenty-first-century American fears of Islam echo nineteenth-century fears of Roman Catholicism: "I do believe everybody has a right to freedom of religion, but Islam is not about a religion. It's a political government, and it's 100 percent against our Constitution," Diane Serafin, a participant in last Friday's demonstration against a mosque site near San Diego, explained in the Goodstein article. Her voice and those of other members of ACT! for America, a Florida-based group seeking to defend Western civilization against Islam, echo the words of Samuel F.B. Morse, the nineteenth-century inventor of the telegraph and distinguished professor of sculpture at New York University. In his book Conspiracy Against the Liberties of the United States, he described Roman Catholicism this way:
Surely American Protestants, freemen, have discernment enough to discover beneath them the cloven foot of this subtle foreign heresy. They will see that Popery is now, what it has ever been, a system of the darkest political intrigue and despotism, cloaking itself to avoid attack under the sacred name of religion. They will be deeply impressed with the truth, that Popery is a political as well as a religious system; that in this respect it differs totally from all other sects, from all other forms of religion in the country.​
His words and those of other anti-Catholic preachers like Lymon Beacher could easily have inspired the mob gathered outside the first Roman Catholic Cathedral in New York City, St. Patrick's "Old Cathedral" -- not far from today's Grounds Zero -- in 1835. On that day and others subsequently, Archbishop John Hughes was forced to assemble his parishioners -- and later the Ancient Order of the Hibernians -- to defend their house of worship against protesters who marched on St. Patrick's chanting epitaphs like "Paddies of the Pope..." and showed a determination to "burn her to the ground."


As Edmund Burke once said:

“Those who don't know history are destined to repeat it.”


and: “All that's necessary for the forces of evil to win in the world is for enough good men to do nothing.”

and:
“No passion so effectually robs the mind of all its powers of acting and reasoning as fear.”
 
Re: American Christians protest mosque at 9-11 site
Quote:
Originally Posted by bhaktajan
Of all the locations in the world, to build a 50 meter high edifice, to memorialized for all posterity, the memory of Mohamed, why should anyone choose to select the site of the most disgraceful, insulting, sinful, shocking, outrageous, scandalous, dishonorable, discreditable, reprehensible, appalling, disreputable, disgraceful, notorious, dishonest, deceitful, false, corrupt, and shameful historical event in the history of humanity to befall upon the honor of Islam?


Citzenzen wrote:
What a disgraceful, insulting, sinful, shocking, outrageous, scandalous, dishonorable, discreditable, reprehensible, appalling, disreputable, disgraceful, notorious, dishonest, deceitful, false, corrupt, and shameful statement!

I certainly hope that you don't share it, bhatajan.

Or else I'd have as low an opinion of you as I do of Rudy.
Click to expand...


Is not the 911 events a slap in the face of Islam?

Is not the 911 events the most shameful historical event to befall upon the honor of Islam?
 
Re: American Christians protest mosque at 9-11 site
Quote:
Originally Posted by citizenzen
What a disgraceful, insulting, sinful, shocking, outrageous, scandalous, dishonorable, discreditable, reprehensible, appalling, disreputable, disgraceful, notorious, dishonest, deceitful, false, corrupt, and shameful statement!


muslimwoman replied:

Brilliant :D
Click to expand...

muslimwoman,
What are you saying?

Do you mean it is brilliantly correct to say that the acts performed on 911 were shameful to islam?

Or are you saying that it is shameful to call those acts performed on 911 as acts carried out by true muslims?

...............................................................................
Anyway, the statement is not yet addressed, in brief:

“Of all the locations to build a edifice,
to memorialise mohamed,
why choose the site of
the most disgraceful event
in history to befall upon the honor of Islam?"

Is it not a dis-honor to Islam to Build at such a site?
 
"Kali-yuga is the epoch of quarrel & hipocracy"

Citizenzen wrote:
You can't deny somebody their rights just because . . .

The "new democracy" =
Don't let the people's opinion set the rules when there is democracy to do it for them.

Or IOW,

The "new democracy" =
There is the opinion of the Populous versus the laws of democracy.

::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
“There is nothing to fear but fear itself.” ---This was a rallying cry during the 2nd World War --to steel the nerves of those who would fight against the axis.

And for all this we Pledge alligence since childhood.
 
bhaktajan said:
Is not the 911 events a slap in the face of Islam?

Is not the 911 events the most shameful historical event to befall upon the honor of Islam?
Click to expand...


Was 9/11 a slap in the face of males?

100% of the highjackers were men.

Do you feel shame?

Should your rights be curtailed because of it?



bhaktajan said:
"Kali-yuga is the epoch of quarrel & hipocracy"

Citizenzen wrote:
You can't deny somebody their rights just because . . .

The "new democracy" =
Don't let the people's opinion set the rules when there is democracy to do it for them.

Or IOW,

The "new democracy" =
There is the opinion of the Populous versus the laws of democracy.

::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
“There is nothing to fear but fear itself.” ---This was a rallying cry during the 2nd World War --to steel the nerves of those who would fight against the axis.

And for all this we Pledge alligence since childhood.
Click to expand...


Sorry... I can't make sense of your "new grammar".
 
bhaktajan said:
“There is nothing to fear but fear itself.” ---This was a rallying cry during the 2nd World War --to steel the nerves of those who would fight against the axis.
Click to expand...
Um, actually that's from 1933. Roosevelt was talking about the way the Great Depression was self-perpetuating, people afraid to spend or invest because money was tight, so money stayed tight and kept people afraid.

The quote does seem to have some application to the current case, however. If we let ourselves be so frightened by terrorists that we give up our basic principles of freedom and equality, then the terrorists can fairly be said to have won already.
 
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