American Christians protest mosque at 9-11 site

[Bhaktajan II]

a] But why damn an entire faith
over the acts of .000000013% its adherents
ignoring the dangerous faction:
the 50% of the world's population?

Citizenzen, you took "these words right-out-of-my-mouth".
The Entire world ignors cow-slaughtering acts of 99% of the world's population ---and then faigns surprise that viloence and mother nature rolls over new graves.

[BTW, it will get far far worse . . . "kali-yuga" is stated to end with society eating thier young]

Yes, this is truely mystifying and meta-logical.

:::::::::::::::::::::

B] But why damn an entire faith
over the acts of .000000013% its adherents
ignoring the dangerous faction:
the 50% of the world's population?

"Damn" --??? This is far from the case!!!! No one is Damning anyone [except homocidal Terrorists of course]

You say 'damn'.

I say the rhetorical:

But why imposition an entire continent of "the new world of the Americas"
with the acts of "world famous terrorists" by creating News headlines ignoring the inspiration of the world's present warring factions?

http://www.interfaith.org/forum/how-many-threads-on-ny-13080.html#post231923

 

[Bhaktajan II]

CZ,


Thanks for dumbing it down for me ---BUT YOU ARE PROVING MY OWN POINT:

ter·rif·ic: 
extraordinarily great //versus// causing terror

The "anti-meaning use" is an "aberration" that is commonly referred to as SLANG.

IE: Most women are famously against being addressed with slang colloquialisms, ie, "Cow" . . . right, baby doll?

ie: U down wit dat dawg? Ain't it totally dope? Yall be trip'n to tink that the reverse meaning is proper english. Next time check the OED.

The ethomology of terra (earth) did not include the hipster jazz-age colloquialism you have cited in your above post.

terra firma L. terrenum "land, ground," from neut. of terrenus "of earth, earthly," from terra "earth, land," lit. "dry land" (as opposed to "sea"); from PIE base *ters- "to dry" (cf. Skt. tarsayati "dries up,"

terror L. terrorem (nom. terror) "great fear, dread," from terrere "fill with fear, frighten," Skt. trasati "trembles,"

Be seeing you round the village,
#6

::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
Please give me the credit of admitting that I am posting inter-faith dialogue rather than using my posts as a means of self-administered therapy.

 

[citizenzen]

"Damn" --??? This is far from the case!!!! No one is Damning anyone [except homocidal Terrorists of course]...

Is not the 911 events a slap in the face of Islam?

Is not the 911 events the most shameful historical event to befall upon the honor of Islam?

You're level of denial is astounding.

Therapy might be a good idea, baby dawg.

 

[bob x]

::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
Please give me the credit of admitting that I am posting inter-faith dialogue rather than using my posts as a means of self-administered therapy.

I certainly have not seen anything I would call "inter-faith dialogue" from you, but your posts also do not seem to be serving any therapeutic purpose.

 

[Bhaktajan II]

Wil wrote:
From Ground Zero memorial Park 51 will be two blocks north (to the left), completely screened by dozens of tall buildings,
http://www.interfaith.org/forum/231316-post24.html


Dogbrain wrote:

The mosque is NOT EVEN ON THE SAME LOT AS THE OLD WTC! Get a GRIP!

http://www.interfaith.org/forum/231510-post34.html



Muslimwoman wrote:
The planned mosque is not on the site of 9/11 but 2 blocks away.


http://www.interfaith.org/forum/230590-post8.html

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May be a picture can say a thousand words:

 

[citizenzen]

May be a picture can say a thousand words:

The picture says the location is near GZ.

So?



Here's an idea...

I stole it from the abortion debate...

Against the Ground Zero mosque? Then don't go and pray there.

 

[wil]

May be a picture can say a thousand words:

You'll have to try the thousand words.

I'd oppose an Al Queda training camp...

Islam did not take down the towers.

19 men, primarily Saudi's who were trained to hate took down the towers.

The act they committed is not permitted in the Koran.

 

[Bhaktajan II]

WE know what the Koran ordains.

Now how about a little more charity:

A goal for one’s charitable cash:

Pakistan flood tollrises but international aid fails to flow | World news | The Guardian

Pakistan flood toll rises but international aid fails to flow

The international response to Pakistan's flood emergency has been sluggish and ungenerous compared with relief efforts after previous disasters, a leading aid agency said today as the UN warned that its emergency workers were in danger of being overwhelmed by the scale of the crisis.
Oxfam said the UN's financial tracking system showed that as of August 9, governments had committed less than $45m, with an additional $91m pledged – considerably less money than was collected for previous disaster relief efforts over a similar period. India, Pakistan's much larger and wealthier neighbour, has not offered any aid or assistance at all.
"Within the first 10 days of the 2005 Pakistan earthquake, which left 3.5 million people homeless, the international community had committed $247m and pledged £45m... In the first 10 days of Cyclone Nargis, which affected 2.4 million people when it struck Myanmar [Burma], almost $110m was committed and $109m pledged," Oxfam said. Likewise, $742m was committed to Haiti and $920m pledged after the earthquake there in January.
About 14 million people have now been affected by the flooding, and about 1,600 people killed. Both figures are expected to rise in the coming days. Pakistan's federal flood commission estimated that 300,000 homes have been destroyed or seriously damaged so far and 2.6m acres (105,000 sq km) of croplands submerged.
"Six million [of the 14 million affected] are children and 3 million women of child-bearing age. This is a higher figure than in the 2005 south Asia tsunami," the UN's humanitarian affairs co-ordination office said.

 

[Amergin]

Fair enough, now where is your evidence that all Evangelical Christians are and must be part of "Christian Reconstruction"? After all, that is the bigotry that your choice of language blatantly wallows in.

I recommend remedial reading for you. where did I say that all evangelicals or fundamentalists are part of Christian Reconstruction. Radical groups with religious titles are minorities in the overall major religion. Not all Muslims are Al Qaeda or Taliban or even approve of them. Not all Christians are Nazis, Christian Reconstructionists, Aryan Nations (Church of Jesus Christ Christian), Christian Identity, Dominionism, Theonomy, the Order, the Army of God. In fact I think all mainstream and liberal Christians oppose those extremists and many conservative Christians or Evangelicals might oppose them.

Amergin

 

[Amergin]

American Muslims do have a right to build a Mosque a few blocks from Ground Zero. It might have been wiser to build it elsewhere in view of the bigotry in America. Al Qaeda committed the 9-11 massacres. They are Muslims. However, 1.4 billion Muslims did not do it or approve of it.

Nazi Germany and Fascist Italy started WWII. German Nazis committed the Jewish Holocaust. The Nazis ruling Germany were all Christians (except Bormann). Adolph Hitler was a Catholic "until I die." Professed Christians comprised the highest inner circle of Third Reich Nazis. Hitler claimed to be doing God's work (against the Jews. He also condemned the Russians as "Godless Bolsheviks."

Did our parents direct hate against Christians or Catholics? Rationally we know most Christians opposed Nazism. We also know most Muslims opposed 9-11. If we oppose the Mosque at Ground Zero, should we oppose a Church near the Federal Bldg in OKC because of McVeigh (Christian Identity)?

I agree that we should not label all people in the two major world religions which have a diverse spectrum of belief and behaviour by the same word.

Large pluralities of Evangelicals and Baptists in the old Confederate states opposed racial integration of the military, public schools, and public serving businesses. Some still oppose interracial marriage and even dating. Tell me, dogbreath, why that is not racism?

Amergin

 

[iBrian]

May be a picture can say a thousand words:

Nasty piece of propaganda.

Any estimates for the size of the dust cloud?

On top of the projection that all Muslims are terrorists - a lamentable position for anyone to take - are we now arguing any place that was once covered by the WTC dust cloud must be kept free of non-Christian religious groups?

All I see is a general hate mongering breeding on the WTC issue. Sadness.

 

[Dragonseer]

Here's my take: if we Americans use hatred to prevent religious freedom, then the terrorists responsible for 9/11 have truly won.

 

[Amergin]

Here's my take: if we Americans use hatred to prevent religious freedom, then the terrorists responsible for 9/11 have truly won.

Sadly, you are spot on. However, it is not new. America and the English colonies preceding it attacked the native peoples. It justified anti-Indian hatred because the natives were heathens. Indian children were stolen by Christian missionaries and imprisoned in Christian schools. The children were beated for speaking their native language or mentioning anything about their native beliefs.

In the numerous Indian wars, the centuries of the trans-Atlantic slave trade enriched much of America's upper class. The Pacific War against Japan. Racism led to the internment camps for Japanese Americans.

I worry that if right wing extremists and Christian Fundamentalists get their way, there may be internment camps for innocent American Muslims. Who knows which group will get the attention of the powerful plurality of bigots? Will it be Homosexuals? Will it be other non-Christians like Buddhists, Hindus, Wiccans, or Atheists/agnostics. These are all hated by large numbers of US bigots.

Oddly, I don't recall reading that Jesus ordered followers to hate, to fear, to abuse incorrect believers, women, or even non-believers. Bigotry is a mental disorder. The bigot's beliefs are just an excuse.

Amergin

 

[Bhaktajan II]

Let us syncronise our watches.

Allow me to play Devil's advocate, if you don't mind. These women are uneducated and yearn for more than providence has bestowed upon them ---why should they be for want of higher stratums of life beyond their men kin's dictates?

In Afghanistan 8th March celebrated with self-immolation « RAWA News

In Afghanistan 8th March celebrated with self-immolation

Including this case, 81 such cases have been recorded in this province’s burn hospital this solar year.

March 8, 2009
At the threshold of International Women’s Day, Afghan officials give the news of self-immolation in eastern Afghanistan.

According to the local officials of Herat province, a 45-year-old woman committed self-immolation due to ‘poverty and mental pressures’.
This incident took place two days before the celebration of International Women’s Day in the Oba district in Herat.
Including this case, 81 such cases have been recorded in this province’s burn hospital this solar year.

 

[citizenzen]

Allow me to play Devil's advocate, if you don't mind. These women are uneducated and yearn for more than providence has bestowed upon them ---why should they be for want of higher stratums of life beyond their men kin's dictates?

I'm afraid that I'm going to have to break some bad news to you bhaktajan, but social progress takes place at an agonizingly slow pace. Unfortunately, injustices will exist in this world even after your life has ended. I wish it were different. I too still struggle with accepting this most unfortunate situation. In the face of these episodes of injustice, we are faced with the choice of how to react as a nation. How do you think this question is best resolved?

I would put forth that social progress is best achieved through openness and sharing and not through means of force. Take China as an example. In my lifetime (nearly 50 years) China transformed from the communist country led by Chairman Mao Tse-tung to a nation that today embraces capitalism.

Who did we have to invade to achieve that?

Who did we have to invade to bring down the Berlin Wall?

What invasion ended Apartheid?

The best way that we could deal with Afghanistan and the Middle East is to interact in a friendly and cooperative manner. And by exposing these countries to other cultures in a non-threatening way we will change them... and they likewise will change us.

So set your watch to that, my friend.

It's 7:33 p.m. PST.

 

[Dharmaatmaa]

I think it'd be a great shame on all the Americans, if the mosque is built on the place of the tragedy!

 

[Operacast]

I think it'd be a great shame on all the Americans, if the mosque is built on the place of the tragedy!

Can't recall where I saw it, but I read one very recent blog by a Muslim reflecting that 9-11 was actually an insult to Islam and that therefore building any mosque near Ground Zero was an insult to Islam as well. Not sure if the blogger was who he claimed he was, of course (one never can be).

Personally, I don't think the issue so much involves what the essence/traditions of Islam may or may not be. More to the point is what the essence/traditions of New York/U.S.A ultimately are. I live in New York City in midtown Manhattan, and my understanding of our finest traditions, as a citizen of one of the more cosmopolitan cities on the globe and a citizen of the U.S.A., comes down to the principle of philosophical/ideological/religious freedom. We would insult our own very essence as a people if we stop this mosque, going forward.

It's another matter, of course, if some Moslems feel insulted by the location. But if such Moslems are a minority, and the bulk of the downtown Moslem community still wish to have a mosque there, who are the rest of us to say them Nay?

The Jefferson formula is still practical, IMO: Freedom of thought is vital to our democracy, so long as it "neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg".

Cheers,

Operacast

 

[Paladin]

I think it'd be a great shame on all the Americans, if the mosque is built on the place of the tragedy!

Perhaps, but it is also a great shame on us if we eschew our values and ethics and cave in to fear mongering and hatred. We truly live and die within our own minds projecting our ideas out into the world as if to reify the imagination.
I could also imagine a slap in the face of Al Qaeda if a Mosque representing the best Islam has to offer ( Remember the Sufi tradition?) is built near the spot where the principles of Love and Peace were smashed into the ground by a handful of bigoted, evil, twisted souls.
But since we as Americans have to deal with our own version of these cases of arrested development the debate will continue.