What's the beef with homosexuality?

Lunitik said:
Within the confines of faith, I think that it is about the lust aspects perceived when the relationship is not useful towards procreation. This is certainly apposed to living a pure life, although I think faiths often miss the areas of grey and only see black or white. Overall, I agree with you, it is up to the individual, if it gets out of hand there are sex clinics for that, religious people should not try to force their beliefs on others, there is enough to worry about trying to please God yourself. Certainly, in the process of attempting to force others to please Him you are not doing very well at it yourself.
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I dont think its lust most of the time. I believe that for women they are looking for the softer side of men which is difficult to find because men tend to hide that aspect of themself so they seek it in women. For men its the reverse. However it doesnt work that way, each does have one other half that is opposite sex. I do believe that in the relationships we have that because we have a connection to our opposite that we can see those qualities of our true opposite in those relationships even if its same sex relationships. However when all is said and done your other half will never be same sex.
 
donnann said:
I believe that for women they are looking for the softer side of men which is difficult to find because men tend to hide that aspect of themself so they seek it in women.
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I think the issue is more nuanced than you present it.

I have seen studies showing 30-40 percent of lesbians and/or bisexual women were sexually abused as children. The percentage could actually be higher still as these types of studies rely on self-reported data and possibly not everyone reports their childhood abuse.

For those that believe "everything happens for a reason" I would be interested to hear how they think this applies to childhood sexual abuse and subsequent homosexuality :confused:

Regarding nature vs. nurture, I have read genetic studies that suggest some people are indeed "born" homosexual (nature). But the childhood sexual abuse studies suggest there is a strong environmental (nurture) component as well...
 
IowaGuy said:
I think the issue is more nuanced than you present it.

I have seen studies showing 30-40 percent of lesbians and/or bisexual women were sexually abused as children. The percentage could actually be higher still as these types of studies rely on self-reported data and possibly not everyone reports their childhood abuse.

For those that believe "everything happens for a reason" I would be interested to hear how they think this applies to childhood sexual abuse and subsequent homosexuality :confused:

Regarding nature vs. nurture, I have read genetic studies that suggest some people are indeed "born" homosexual (nature). But the childhood sexual abuse studies suggest there is a strong environmental (nurture) component as well...
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I dont believe anyone is born homosexual. As far as abuse I also dont believe that has anything to do with it. I do believe that has more to do with people repeating abusive behaviors.
 
IG--I think the data are with you here. But it is also possible for abused girls (or boys) to enter abusing relationships about as frequently. That is why APA (Am Psych Assoc) considers sexual orientation a matter of nature.

Peace, radarmark
 
donnann said:
I dont believe anyone is born homosexual. As far as abuse I also dont believe that has anything to do with it. I do believe that has more to do with people repeating abusive behaviors.
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Do you just "believe" things at random, whatever strikes your fancy at the moment?
 
donnann said:
I dont believe anyone is born homosexual.
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Hi Donnann, I would refer you to numerous studies on the "Fraternal Birth-Order Effect." A quick google search will yield more articles than you will want to read.

Statistically, this older brother effect is the strongest known factor in predicting male homosexuality. Multiple studies have reached similar conclusions, and some studies have had huge sample sizes (87,000 British males, for example) so the science is solid in showing this correlation.

Obviously it's not the only factor and doesn't explain homosexuality for everyone, but it is strong evidence that "nature" can have an effect on homosexuality. Consider that a 10th biological son (but not so for adopted) statistically has a 50% chance of being gay.

This topic is actually very timely with the current political situation as Michele Bachman's husband believes gays can be "cured" of their homosexuality...
 
"I dont believe anyone is born homosexual."

--> I do, and reincarnation plays an important role. For example, when a person lives several incarnations in a row as a female, it only makes sense that *she* would have female-leaning tendencies in *her* next reincarnation. But when such a person is 'forced' into a male reincarnation, these female-leaning tendencies follow *her* into *his* new reincarnation. I can think of several people who are not gay, and are clearly willing to follow the sex-role they have been given in this life, but it is clear that they have been the oppositie gender in several previous reincarnations.
 
Nick the Pilot said:
"I dont believe anyone is born homosexual."

--> I do, and reincarnation plays an important role. For example, when a person lives several incarnations in a row as a female, it only makes sense that *she* would have female-leaning tendencies in *her* next reincarnation. But when such a person is 'forced' into a male reincarnation, these female-leaning tendencies follow *her* into *his* new reincarnation. I can think of several people who are not gay, and are clearly willing to follow the sex-role they have been given in this life, but it is clear that they have been the oppositie gender in several previous reincarnations.
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That would cause gross deformation of the body. Spirit has unchangable codes that must match up to the body so a reincarnation would never be of opposite gender. Being gay is an attraction to the energy of the opposite one is not finding in their relationships. An example is men do have a gentle side its masculine but gentle but a lot of times they hide it and its like too much testosterone. So women search for that gentleness and need it to feed the spirit. I believe that in relationships we always see our opposite when its good interactions even if its same sex relationships but your true other half will never be same sex.
 
shazni said:
Am not an expert on religious texts except I have read the Qur'an n woman have equal rights in most issues.man n woman were created to pro-create.man n man or woman n woman cannot naturally.if we could there would b no point in two genders.we would all b asexual.like worms.or we'd b dual-gendered.like plants.creation has a purpose in my view.having said that...ppl can do whatever floats their boat...its their life.
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Its simple dont treat someone badly but everyone does have an opposite an the bodies reflect this reality. Distortion of it sex change operations shouldnt be done. If science notices it never really fully functions the way it should . The key is what I call fe sperm contained in the female fluid , if it goes to the male it will convert to the male side so a male can never really become a female , it doesnt work that way. Like the flow of energy you need male and female union for life processes. So there is really no such thing as half being both or half being sexless. The nature and function of all life processes always needs male and female that are one but also two but three as well. This goes for the whole cosmos elements as well.
 
Abdullah said:
From these passages we learn that God saved Lot and the righteous ones of his family, and rained on the rest a shower of brimstone, so they were utterly destroyed. This is mentioned in the Qur'an not only for the sake of information, but mainly to serve as a warning to anyone who dares to repeat such acts.
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Where in that passage did it rule against homosexuality, though?
 
pghguy said:
It's no secret that most modern religions frown upon homosexuality. There are a few that do now and perhaps even embrace it but most do. The big question is - why?

Arguments against it being unnatural do not stand up to scrutiny. Science has proven this incorrect. And, even if it is a disorder or some sort, this is essentially no different than somebody having any other unprovoked condition like say - seizures. We certainly wouldn't consider seizures evil or sinful.

It seems that the most likely reasons for condemning homosexuality originated something like this.

Heterosexual sex can create new life. And, in ancient times, this was much more likely due to lack of scientific knowledge about menstrual cycles and the non-existence of artificial contraception. Naturally, homosexual sex cannot.

Sexual relationships not producing a higher population where not beneficial. They did not produce future workers and additional subjects to the religious and secular leaders of the time.

This would have been cause for concern because it would limit the number of people leaders held power over and limit the taxes governments could receive from them.

So, ultimately, it seems that it was about power.

As far as the Bible goes, it could not possibly have condemned homosexuality as we perceive it today. Why? Well first off, the word didn’t even exist until the 19th century. Second, history itself (dating both before and after the writing of the Bible) defies this logic.

Here are some great resources on the subject:

http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/homosexuality/
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_year_did_homosexual_become_a_word
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homosexuality is not natural the bible says it .. and its true.

and your wrong it is condemed in the bible just as surly as all other sins ..
http://www.vimeo.com/5202620
 
donnann said:
That would cause gross deformation of the body. Spirit has unchangable codes that must match up to the body so a reincarnation would never be of opposite gender. Being gay is an attraction to the energy of the opposite one is not finding in their relationships. An example is men do have a gentle side its masculine but gentle but a lot of times they hide it and its like too much testosterone. So women search for that gentleness and need it to feed the spirit. I believe that in relationships we always see our opposite when its good interactions even if its same sex relationships but your true other half will never be same sex.
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What he describes is a clinging, it is not of body at all - it is a leaning of mind. Through those past lives, he is positing that they are so much identified that it remains in the current incarnation despite the utter pointless of acting on this desire.

It is perfectly logical, but I cannot say whether it is factual. For me, sexuality itself is false. Homosexuality is caused by a guilt - you can tell the attractiveness of someone of the same sex, something useful for weighing competition in nature - and social stigmas attached to it. They decide "I must be gay, no one else has this going on" but this is false, it is just that others have repressed it better.

Sexual desire is a craving to release energy, but it is manifest in the lowest form possible. This is why religions go on teaching celibacy: it reserves this energy and eventually it can flower in a higher form. Of course, repression is not going to help, it can only cause obsession... this is how much homosexuality occurs in monasteries - they simply must exhaust it, it is too much, but there is no one of the other sex. Automatically, motivations towards celibacy creates a desire for sex, you cannot be celibate without acknowledging sex.
 
donnann said:
I dont think its lust most of the time. I believe that for women they are looking for the softer side of men which is difficult to find because men tend to hide that aspect of themself so they seek it in women. For men its the reverse. However it doesnt work that way, each does have one other half that is opposite sex. I do believe that in the relationships we have that because we have a connection to our opposite that we can see those qualities of our true opposite in those relationships even if its same sex relationships. However when all is said and done your other half will never be same sex.
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This goes against the natural way of things, always nature is trying to create a whole but your position states that we want to go deeper into our extremes...

I will use magnets to explain: when two positives or negatives are placed together they will repel each other. This is exactly what has occurred, you have sought to fulfill your desire by finding a compatible opposite. Always in homosexual relationships, one is representative of the male energy the other the female otherwise they would repel. Perhaps something has happened that they cannot be comfortable with the same sex, or as I just posited they have began to feel guilt for something perfectly natural. It is completely feasible that a male energy can exist in a female, then it is necessary to find a male with a female energy to create a whole. Instead, though, we have said the male energy wants the physical female so we create lesbians. The sexual outlet is simply an exhausting of an urge though, it is not useful in this scenario.

The sexual desire is called lust. The problem is that more and more our society is becoming motivated by sex, it is becoming an expression of closeness. No longer is it necessary for compatibility because we are no longer motivated by relationships. Now there is no repelling force, they are simply having fun in the moment and everyone enjoys the sexual release so there is no issue that arises. If they tried to engage in a relationship it would become impossible, they are too much alike so they simply don't. You can perhaps say that the feminist movement has created some of this, it has created females that lean more towards their male attributes. What must happen is that males become more feminine as a result and we are seeing this for instance in what is called the "metrosexual". The problem is that neither are being authentic now, they have attracted each other on a false pretense but they will have to keep up the pretense to maintain the relationship - they will come to despise the other for causing the necessity to repress.
 
IowaGuy said:
Is everything the bible says, true?
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Yes, the real question is whether the interpretation is accurate, and whether the material is useful :)

For instance, in the old testament God has caused plagues to fall on the people of Egypt. Is this going to help you today? Not at all, but what has it conveyed? God - existence - watches out for his people and will cause them to triumph in whatsoever their endeavor...

It is perfectly true, if you have reached to the ultimate, you will find that suddenly it seems like the world is bending over backwards for you. You do not desire anything, and yet it keeps giving.

Always, your conscious actions will be supported by existence.
 
This thread makes me think of Deuteronomy... If one starts using the bible to support things like anti-homosexuality messages, then one could read Deutoronomy and many other OT books to support all kinds of hate. Anti-women, etc.

For example, all those unfortunate people that are adopted ("bastards" to use the OT phrase) that aren't welcome in the congregation of the Lord (Deuteronomy 23:2, KJV). Or anyone with any kind of defect in their scrotum/penis (Deuteronomy 23:1).

So just a blanket phrase that "the bible says it so it's true" seems pretty weak to me, unless one wants to back it up with EVERYTHING the bible says is true. Which has some pretty negative and severe consequences...

For example do you have a bouncer at the front door of your church to make sure a "bastard" or even up to a 10th generation of a bastard, doesn't make it into your congregation? After all, the bible says they aren't welcome in the Lord's congregation...and it's true.
 
Snoopy said:
This literal thing is really troublesome ;)
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the literal bible is suppose to trouble some it shows your sins .. keep reading it untill you find all about your savior from sin ,,

I know every one wants the bible to say how good they are .. :D
 
IowaGuy said:
This thread makes me think of Deuteronomy... If one starts using the bible to support things like anti-homosexuality messages, then one could read Deutoronomy and many other OT books to support all kinds of hate. Anti-women, etc.

For example, all those unfortunate people that are adopted ("bastards" to use the OT phrase) that aren't welcome in the congregation of the Lord (Deuteronomy 23:2, KJV). Or anyone with any kind of defect in their scrotum/penis (Deuteronomy 23:1).

So just a blanket phrase that "the bible says it so it's true" seems pretty weak to me, unless one wants to back it up with EVERYTHING the bible says is true. Which has some pretty negative and severe consequences...

For example do you have a bouncer at the front door of your church to make sure a "bastard" or even up to a 10th generation of a bastard, doesn't make it into your congregation? After all, the bible says they aren't welcome in the Lord's congregation...and it's true.
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yes the bible is anti sin and you and me and homosexuals are sinners and all women and men all age groups are sinners to.

well guess what if you keep reading the bible to your surprise your gona find thats the only people Jesus came to save .
so if you wanna be saved its about time you admit your a sinner to ..dont worry your little head over every body else being sinners ,, because now you know with out a doubt because of the bible they also are ..
 
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