We are all G!ds.
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Gatekeeper
Shades of Reason
Re: Bringing up your post (It's a worthy topic)
Carnal man is fallen, and I tend to regard fallen as wounded, albeit the wound is self-inflicted, but the point is that the essential human nature is very good, and is as it should be.
Perfection is not something added to human nature, or a spiritual nature that escapes human nature, perfection is human nature in communion with other natures as mediator between God and creation.
I only emphasise this point because there is the old dualistic tendency to treat the world as a pace to be out of as soon as possible, whereas God is up in His heaven saying, "that's where I want you, that's where you're supposed to be. That's where you can do miracles."
If we abandon creation, then that's hardly a recommendation, is it?
I think God will be a bit miffed if we view creation as a stepping stone to a better life. I think our job is to realise the better life here, now, in creation.
"... the tree of life also in the midst of paradise: and the tree of knowledge of good and evil ... " Genesis 2:9
"... But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of paradise, God hath commanded us that we should not eat; and that we should not touch it, lest perhaps we die ... " Genesis 3:3
Exegetes have for a long time made the point that the two trees are both in the middle of the Garden, they are one and the same tree.
A man once aid, 'freedom is slavery to the path of one's own choosing', which I think is quite wise. Today, what many regard as freedom is in fact following whatever whim tickles one's fancy, it's not freedom at all, it's just an unrealised slavery to the carnal aspect of the self — a Buddhist meditation teacher referred to the mind as 'the monkey at the typewriter' and most people will loudly defend the right for the monkey to bang whatever keys it likes, and their right to dance to the tune the monkey's banging out.
Even many forms of so-called 'spirituality' are quite carnal when you look into it. I laughingly remember when Buddhist chanting was all the rage, and watching some pop-star wannabee on TV proclaiming with all the wide-eyed faith of the eyes wide shut, that he'd chanted for a new Porsche, and got one! I know that's a terrible example, but only because it's extreme. A lost of spirituality is in fact pandering to one's own psychic whims.
Dominion, but which I mean the true nobility of kingship, which is leading by example, true husbandry ... that's harder.
Don't you see, 'power' is part of the carnal error ... the truth is, we have no power at all.
So no, I think 'who we are and what we're capable of' in that context is glamourous, but essentially not true, and toxic.
I think man's reaching out for power beyond himself is what the Fall is all about ... Adam wanted to be a God, and you're telling me you are one ... it's the same fault, it seems to me?
It depends on what basis you believe 'mighty'? I think we are helpless, and in our sin believe we are mighty.
As Jesus said: "Without me, you can do nothing." John 15:5
And, good grief ... look at the almighty bollocking Job got —
"Then the Lord answered Job out of a whirlwind, and said:
Who is this that wrappeth up sentences in unskillful words?
Gird up thy loins like a man:
I will ask thee, and answer thou me.
Where wast thou when I laid up the foundations of the earth?
tell me if thou hast understanding.
Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest?
or who hath stretched the line upon it?" Job 38.
It goes on for chapters! But boiled right down, the message reads: 'Just who the **** d'you think you are?'
So yes, we can land rockets on the moon, we can render all life extinct ... but compared to the power of God, that's nothing.
I look at Jesus. What power did He have? All power. What power did He deploy? None of it ... he was led where He didn't want to go, and Peter was led where he didn't want to go, and to walk with Jesus is to be led where we don't want to go ... and one step of the journey is giving up all notions of personal power.
When I think of man I think of Psalm 5: What is man that thou art mindful of him?
My carnal self will demand that God pays me the attention I am worth.
My spiritual self just stands there in awestruck wonder ... how is it ... why is it ...
No false piety, you understand, no Uriah Heep fawning or cringing ... but sometimes, at night, looking up into the heavens, you've got to say to yourself ... bloody hell ... this is outrageous!
God bless,
Thomas
Yes, with the proviso that one regards all nature, and everything in it, as good, and as God willed.
Carnal man is fallen, and I tend to regard fallen as wounded, albeit the wound is self-inflicted, but the point is that the essential human nature is very good, and is as it should be.
Perfection is not something added to human nature, or a spiritual nature that escapes human nature, perfection is human nature in communion with other natures as mediator between God and creation.
I only emphasise this point because there is the old dualistic tendency to treat the world as a pace to be out of as soon as possible, whereas God is up in His heaven saying, "that's where I want you, that's where you're supposed to be. That's where you can do miracles."
If we abandon creation, then that's hardly a recommendation, is it?
I think God will be a bit miffed if we view creation as a stepping stone to a better life. I think our job is to realise the better life here, now, in creation.
Yes, but read carefully:
"... the tree of life also in the midst of paradise: and the tree of knowledge of good and evil ... " Genesis 2:9
"... But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of paradise, God hath commanded us that we should not eat; and that we should not touch it, lest perhaps we die ... " Genesis 3:3
Exegetes have for a long time made the point that the two trees are both in the middle of the Garden, they are one and the same tree.
Not really, one does not need to love an authority to submit to it. But, if one loves, then 'submission' doesn't even enter one's head.
A man once aid, 'freedom is slavery to the path of one's own choosing', which I think is quite wise. Today, what many regard as freedom is in fact following whatever whim tickles one's fancy, it's not freedom at all, it's just an unrealised slavery to the carnal aspect of the self — a Buddhist meditation teacher referred to the mind as 'the monkey at the typewriter' and most people will loudly defend the right for the monkey to bang whatever keys it likes, and their right to dance to the tune the monkey's banging out.
Even many forms of so-called 'spirituality' are quite carnal when you look into it. I laughingly remember when Buddhist chanting was all the rage, and watching some pop-star wannabee on TV proclaiming with all the wide-eyed faith of the eyes wide shut, that he'd chanted for a new Porsche, and got one! I know that's a terrible example, but only because it's extreme. A lost of spirituality is in fact pandering to one's own psychic whims.
Thats what I mean. Destroying stuff is a doddle. Babies can destroy things without even knowing they've done it.
Dominion, but which I mean the true nobility of kingship, which is leading by example, true husbandry ... that's harder.
Don't you see, 'power' is part of the carnal error ... the truth is, we have no power at all.
I think that's an illusion ... it's the same lie the serpent peddled in the garden: 'the boss don't want you to know how powerful you are' ... but the serpent lied, and man reached for power, and lost his life.
So no, I think 'who we are and what we're capable of' in that context is glamourous, but essentially not true, and toxic.
I think man's reaching out for power beyond himself is what the Fall is all about ... Adam wanted to be a God, and you're telling me you are one ... it's the same fault, it seems to me?
Well as long as you believe in your own deity there's no room for God, is there, because to make His presence known He'll have to come with fire and brimstone, all manner of catastrophes ... but today God speaks with 'the still, small voice' and perhaps we're so full of our own bluster we don't hear Him?
It depends on what basis you believe 'mighty'? I think we are helpless, and in our sin believe we are mighty.
As Jesus said: "Without me, you can do nothing." John 15:5
And, good grief ... look at the almighty bollocking Job got —
"Then the Lord answered Job out of a whirlwind, and said:
Who is this that wrappeth up sentences in unskillful words?
Gird up thy loins like a man:
I will ask thee, and answer thou me.
Where wast thou when I laid up the foundations of the earth?
tell me if thou hast understanding.
Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest?
or who hath stretched the line upon it?" Job 38.
It goes on for chapters! But boiled right down, the message reads: 'Just who the **** d'you think you are?'
So yes, we can land rockets on the moon, we can render all life extinct ... but compared to the power of God, that's nothing.
I look at Jesus. What power did He have? All power. What power did He deploy? None of it ... he was led where He didn't want to go, and Peter was led where he didn't want to go, and to walk with Jesus is to be led where we don't want to go ... and one step of the journey is giving up all notions of personal power.
When I think of man I think of Psalm 5: What is man that thou art mindful of him?
My carnal self will demand that God pays me the attention I am worth.
My spiritual self just stands there in awestruck wonder ... how is it ... why is it ...
No false piety, you understand, no Uriah Heep fawning or cringing ... but sometimes, at night, looking up into the heavens, you've got to say to yourself ... bloody hell ... this is outrageous!
God bless,
Thomas
Gatekeeper
Shades of Reason
Re: Bringing up your post (It's a worthy topic)
-- Thomas
God created us for union and to serve one another in love -- Not to defy Him and pretend that we have control. Our so called control leads to death, but when we are able to truly love and dedicate our lives to HIM, we become who we were created to be (His children).
We ARE gods, but we are not GOD, thus our attempts to rule leads to our destruction. Submission to God, which is giving up of our own carnal desire to control leads us to His love, which in turn leads us to life.
To serve in heaven or to rule in hell is NOT a difficult decision if you truly think about it and take into account the "hell" we have effectively created on earth. Mighty one's (gods) we are, and even more mighty we become when we submit ourselves to God and allow His love guide us.
OG/GK
-- Thomas
God created us for union and to serve one another in love -- Not to defy Him and pretend that we have control. Our so called control leads to death, but when we are able to truly love and dedicate our lives to HIM, we become who we were created to be (His children).
We ARE gods, but we are not GOD, thus our attempts to rule leads to our destruction. Submission to God, which is giving up of our own carnal desire to control leads us to His love, which in turn leads us to life.
To serve in heaven or to rule in hell is NOT a difficult decision if you truly think about it and take into account the "hell" we have effectively created on earth. Mighty one's (gods) we are, and even more mighty we become when we submit ourselves to God and allow His love guide us.
OG/GK
Re: Bringing up your post (It's a worthy topic)
examentary...
UNeyeR1 as is everythin else...
in him i live and breathe and have my being...
examentary...
UNeyeR1 as is everythin else...
in him i live and breathe and have my being...
Re: Bringing up your post (It's a worthy topic)
You're basing this whole argument on a one-verse reading of scripture, totally out of the context of the statement, and totally out of context of the whole text.
God bless,
Thomas
I don't argue that.
Then you practice idolatry. The Bible says we will have no gods, not other, not strange not false nor otherwise, and you're claiming we are all gods.
You're basing this whole argument on a one-verse reading of scripture, totally out of the context of the statement, and totally out of context of the whole text.
God bless,
Thomas
Re: Bringing up your post (It's a worthy topic)
We are part and parcel, one with all, one with the all, one with G!d.
Not one scripture....many.
Not My father, but OUR father which art in heaven....
Who are my brothers and sisters??
We are....
I and the father are one...
Everything I have done.....
tis a story woven by our ancestors....tis our story....we have to put on the mind of Christ....we take up our cross....we spend our time in the belly of the whale and as the prodigal son, and as the father, and as Benjamin and Joseph, and the Pharoah....
Tis time for us to escape from Egypt, out of our mental bondage, cross the Jordan to the promise land....
Or are you lost in the wilderness....that is ok we all spend time there as well....let go of Moses.....let go of John....it is upto us to realize the kingdom is here....now.... in our midst.... don't let the adversary take us otherwise....get behind me satan, abolish that negative stinkin thinkin and embrace your inheritance....
It is written and it is everywhere.....only those with ears may hear...
We are the continually begotten of the only begotten.
We are part and parcel, one with all, one with the all, one with G!d.
Not one scripture....many.
Not My father, but OUR father which art in heaven....
Who are my brothers and sisters??
We are....
I and the father are one...
Everything I have done.....
tis a story woven by our ancestors....tis our story....we have to put on the mind of Christ....we take up our cross....we spend our time in the belly of the whale and as the prodigal son, and as the father, and as Benjamin and Joseph, and the Pharoah....
Tis time for us to escape from Egypt, out of our mental bondage, cross the Jordan to the promise land....
Or are you lost in the wilderness....that is ok we all spend time there as well....let go of Moses.....let go of John....it is upto us to realize the kingdom is here....now.... in our midst.... don't let the adversary take us otherwise....get behind me satan, abolish that negative stinkin thinkin and embrace your inheritance....
It is written and it is everywhere.....only those with ears may hear...
in my humble opinon....
Then you practice idolotry?? Come on thomas.....ain't the catholics the ones that took that out of the ten commandments so they could have their saints and neck charms...
then you practice idoltry....god bless??
gotta luv it brother!!
Then you practice idolotry?? Come on thomas.....ain't the catholics the ones that took that out of the ten commandments so they could have their saints and neck charms...
then you practice idoltry....god bless??
gotta luv it brother!!
taijasi
Gnōthi seauton
ROFL, saints and neck charms galore, Mother Mary who is ~ not quite Divine, yet somehow the "Mother of God," and of course, the MAN who is both man, but God ... fully each, then - when asked to explain: "uhhh, it's a MYSTERY!"
Yes, yes, we hear all about this mystery of the incarnation. Which translates to: We don't have a friggin clue, because those who once did long ago misused every secret they were entrusted with to build this mighty bastion of lies and hypocrisy which still takes up so much real estate today.
No, I WOULD be the first to argue for the GOOD that exists, despite all of this nastiness. But so long as this individual still casts his shadow here, shouting IDOLATRY at everyone who dares speak to, or about the "Christ within" ...
... I'll be glad to point out what vanity and hypocrisy that individual so beautifully embodies.
Give him a chance, though. In no time at all we'll hear about how evil folks like me are ... and be reminded of just why it was so necessary to persecute and torture folks like me down through the ages, and how in fact it's us idolators who all need to be burned at the stake and sent to the iron maidens.
Yes, yes, Thomas. We know. The crusades never really quite ended for you, did they. Stomp stomp stomp ... HEY!!! He's not Catholic!!!
Quick! Get that crucifix outta the glove compartment. Fast, put these on!
Yessir, got mah papers right here. Everything in order today for you sir?
***SIGH***
Yes, yes, we hear all about this mystery of the incarnation. Which translates to: We don't have a friggin clue, because those who once did long ago misused every secret they were entrusted with to build this mighty bastion of lies and hypocrisy which still takes up so much real estate today.
No, I WOULD be the first to argue for the GOOD that exists, despite all of this nastiness. But so long as this individual still casts his shadow here, shouting IDOLATRY at everyone who dares speak to, or about the "Christ within" ...
... I'll be glad to point out what vanity and hypocrisy that individual so beautifully embodies.
Give him a chance, though. In no time at all we'll hear about how evil folks like me are ... and be reminded of just why it was so necessary to persecute and torture folks like me down through the ages, and how in fact it's us idolators who all need to be burned at the stake and sent to the iron maidens.
Yes, yes, Thomas. We know. The crusades never really quite ended for you, did they. Stomp stomp stomp ... HEY!!! He's not Catholic!!!
Quick! Get that crucifix outta the glove compartment. Fast, put these on!
Yessir, got mah papers right here. Everything in order today for you sir?
***SIGH***
Re: Bringing up your post (It's a worthy topic)
But we're discussing Christian Scripture here ... so again, where does it say that?
So again, if one takes verses out of context, one's bound to draw the wrong conclusions.
God bless,
Thomas
No we're not ... where does it say that?
Again, no we're not ... it's no point making these kinds of statements if they're founded on nothing.
Well if one cherry-picks from all the world's sacra doctrina, then one can find evidence for any theory one cares to put forward.
But we're discussing Christian Scripture here ... so again, where does it say that?
According to Scripture, Christ is the only begotten Son of God ... and again, according to Scripture, we are begotten by Paul (cf 1 Corinthians 4:15).
So again, if one takes verses out of context, one's bound to draw the wrong conclusions.
God bless,
Thomas
Gatekeeper
Shades of Reason
Re: Bringing up your post (It's a worthy topic)
Idolatry? Please, Thomas -- Lets not go there! I could just as easily accuse you of biblidolatry, but what the point? Does it make it true? No! Does it build up the body? No! Does it edify? No!
NO! it is a personal dig at my person because I disagree with YOU and your assessment of the scriptures. Also, I never compared mankind to God, I merely suggested that we are gods (Mighty one's) fallen from grace, which is the reason the world is in the shape it is in now.
I even suggested that we aren't much different than other animals in another thread we've been discussing. The difference is that mankind has the power to destroy the majority of the earths inhabitants.
We are indeed gods, but We are NOT God -- the comparrison is like comparing a grain of sand to the universe, so I find your idolatry accusation a bit humorous.
You prefer to believe that we are not gods and that's fine, Thomas -- But don't play the idolatry card with me. I know better! I simply know who we are and what we are capable of. Why not throw out the heresy card for good measure, too?
Listen, I do not idolize mankind, nor do I worship mankind -- I simply know who God made us to be. It's that simple!
Take care,
GK
Idolatry? Please, Thomas -- Lets not go there! I could just as easily accuse you of biblidolatry, but what the point? Does it make it true? No! Does it build up the body? No! Does it edify? No!
NO! it is a personal dig at my person because I disagree with YOU and your assessment of the scriptures. Also, I never compared mankind to God, I merely suggested that we are gods (Mighty one's) fallen from grace, which is the reason the world is in the shape it is in now.
I even suggested that we aren't much different than other animals in another thread we've been discussing. The difference is that mankind has the power to destroy the majority of the earths inhabitants.
We are indeed gods, but We are NOT God -- the comparrison is like comparing a grain of sand to the universe, so I find your idolatry accusation a bit humorous.
You prefer to believe that we are not gods and that's fine, Thomas -- But don't play the idolatry card with me. I know better! I simply know who we are and what we are capable of. Why not throw out the heresy card for good measure, too?
Listen, I do not idolize mankind, nor do I worship mankind -- I simply know who God made us to be. It's that simple!
Take care,
GK
Re: Bringing up your post (It's a worthy topic)
So far you've offered no real argument to your claim that we are gods.
And I still refute the idea of 'Mighty Ones' — where does it say that?
I'm saying there is a radical difference between a human nature and a divine nature, and that difference is infinitely more than the difference between a grain of sand and the universe. It's a different order of being, not just a different order of scale.
Can you explain what you mean by 'gods', if not possessing a divine nature?
You can make that claim if you wish, but don't try and use the Bible to endorse it, that's what I'm saying.
Because nowhere in any Christian Scripture is that claim made on behalf of humanity — nowhere except by 'the father of lies' in the Garden of Eden, intent on bring about the downfall of man.
The distinction is, you think we are gods, whereas I'm saying we are not gods, but we can become one with God ... I think Scripture says the latter, and refutes the former.
God bless,
Thomas
You're the one setting up other gods ... something both Testaments emphatically warn against.
My point is you're reading stuff into Scripture that's just not there.
No it's not ... it's a dig at claiming for Christianity things it does not claim. My assessment of Scripture is in tune with Orthodox and Catholic teaching, it's not my own opinion, and it's evidenced by clear argument.
So far you've offered no real argument to your claim that we are gods.
There is a synergy between 'God' and 'gods', there has to be some commonality of nature, or are you inventing a new definition of the term.
And I still refute the idea of 'Mighty Ones' — where does it say that?
If you think about it, a grain of sand and the universe actually have a lot in common, they're both composed of the same stuff, it's just a matter of scale.
I'm saying there is a radical difference between a human nature and a divine nature, and that difference is infinitely more than the difference between a grain of sand and the universe. It's a different order of being, not just a different order of scale.
Can you explain what you mean by 'gods', if not possessing a divine nature?
The claim to be gods is, according to Abrahamic Tradition, idolatry, whatever way you dress it up.
You can make that claim if you wish, but don't try and use the Bible to endorse it, that's what I'm saying.
Good point. Heresy is from the Greek verb 'to choose', so yes, I think you've latched on to a verse from Scripture, completely out of context, blown it out of all proportion, and simply chosen to ignore any Scripture that contradicts your position.
You know the mind of God then? Is that because you're a god, too?
Because nowhere in any Christian Scripture is that claim made on behalf of humanity — nowhere except by 'the father of lies' in the Garden of Eden, intent on bring about the downfall of man.
The distinction is, you think we are gods, whereas I'm saying we are not gods, but we can become one with God ... I think Scripture says the latter, and refutes the former.
God bless,
Thomas
Re: Bringing up your post (It's a worthy topic)
you cherry pick yours Thomas, I cherry pick mine...everyone does...so you are denying these are from Christian Scripture as they are the only ones I referenced....never having read the sacra doctrina...
NiceCupOfTea
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so you think you are a God,
can you create a universe from nothing ?
can you create a universe from nothing ?
Nice bit of Discussion...I'll provide an appropriate response.
Yes I've already done it. And the fact that I said it, and my words are now published makes it so. You see now. I just said it. I just wrote what I just said. That is more than anyone can say of the G!d of the bible, Moses, or Jesus.
Now the above response in no way denigrates the three names mentioned. It is just that factually I now have more proof, more evidence than they, or you.
But obviously it is not the direction the discussion has been going, and my answer is on par with the question. I hope you enjoyed it.
Gatekeeper
Shades of Reason
Re: Bringing up your post (It's a worthy topic)
Of course not, but I do know what I Am capable of, thus I realize mankind's might; both to destroy life by defying God and/or sustain life by submission (Surrender) to God. We are no different than Lucifer who became his own god -- Like Lucifer, mankind has become his own god in practice.
I'm not suggesting that becoming our own god and defying our Creator is a good thing. I Am, however, suggesting that this is mankind's reality. We are gods and we ARE extremely powerful, but our power, our defiance to God leads to death, whereas submission (Surrender) to God leads us to life. Surrender to God makes us even more so gods than when we defy our Creator, as we become more godlike when we surrender to His authority.
Keep playing your idolatry and heresy cards if you feel you must Thomas, but when the walls of your house come tumbling down, know this, "With what judgment you judge you will be judged, and with the measure you use it will be measured back to you.
We are what we are (Know your role)
GK
Of course not, but I do know what I Am capable of, thus I realize mankind's might; both to destroy life by defying God and/or sustain life by submission (Surrender) to God. We are no different than Lucifer who became his own god -- Like Lucifer, mankind has become his own god in practice.
I'm not suggesting that becoming our own god and defying our Creator is a good thing. I Am, however, suggesting that this is mankind's reality. We are gods and we ARE extremely powerful, but our power, our defiance to God leads to death, whereas submission (Surrender) to God leads us to life. Surrender to God makes us even more so gods than when we defy our Creator, as we become more godlike when we surrender to His authority.
Keep playing your idolatry and heresy cards if you feel you must Thomas, but when the walls of your house come tumbling down, know this, "With what judgment you judge you will be judged, and with the measure you use it will be measured back to you.
We are what we are (Know your role)
GK
taijasi
Gnōthi seauton
Atoms, Gods, Angels, Men ... Cosmos, Logos, Universe and then ...
~ isn't it a question of scale? As a good friend has often reminded me: Big picture, little picture.
I think we can get thrown when considering this topic by our very conceptions of Deity. After all, can't the latter be quite intimate and personal, if one is a strict theist, or rather impersonal and abstract, if one affirms a belief in Nirguna Brahman and the Deistic type of God?
I believe in an utter simplicity upon which all else is founded, or built out of, and in that sense, I most certainly cannot construct a Cosmos, or even a small universe ... of my own capacity and volition.
On the other hand, I believe that I fall short of what I have been asked to do, if I do not TRY ... to repeat, as best as I am able, what I have been shown of the Divine Creation ~ within my own little sphere, or tiny microcosm. It is my belief that God expects nothing more from us, yet this definitely involves a building component, wherein we repeat on smaller scale the same Creative process(es) which we can observe at large in the world around us.
This cannot be completed alone, or even through the mere acceptance of the proffered Hand of Providence. For if we were meant to relate only to `God above' [transcendent Deity], we would not be having this conversation, or discussion right now. Our fellow man ~ is not expendable. We must not overlook the lateral arm of the Cross, any more than the vertical.
Curiously, from the center of the cube, there are six outer faces, although each face can be regarded in another fashion. If each face of a cube is the BASE of a pyramid, there are the four corners [this is a mandala, four-sided, often associated with familiar elements] ... and the apex of each pyramid is the center of this cube. The cube is actually a 3-dimensional cross, having not simply one set of intersecting lines [an even-armed cross] ... but an additional cross is formed at the remaining right-angle to the first cross.
This is much easier to visualize than describe; or perhaps I have just done a poor job of it. What does it have to do with us being Gods? Aha. "God is the Great Geometer." We [are asked to] repeat this, on a smaller scale. As yet, we work with a very limited set of Platonic solids, and even with our most amazing accomplishments in such fields as modern medicine and nanotechnology, we do not begin to even scratch the surface relative to what Mankind may one day attain.
I take all this, not so much as granted [for that will get into Grace, as theologians describe it], as simply an implicit part or aspect of the Divine Plan. That Plan must surely have existed from the very Beginning, as well as have encompassed, even in one moment of time, the sum-total, or final attainment, achieved only in the penultimate moment of Cosmic Manifestation/Creation. It makes perfect sense to me that the `Big Crunch' will require an even amount of time to occur as the `Big Bang' ... and when all is said [the Word] and done [as in, `Thy Will be ~'], we shall ALL be ~ complete!
~ isn't it a question of scale? As a good friend has often reminded me: Big picture, little picture.
I think we can get thrown when considering this topic by our very conceptions of Deity. After all, can't the latter be quite intimate and personal, if one is a strict theist, or rather impersonal and abstract, if one affirms a belief in Nirguna Brahman and the Deistic type of God?
I believe in an utter simplicity upon which all else is founded, or built out of, and in that sense, I most certainly cannot construct a Cosmos, or even a small universe ... of my own capacity and volition.
On the other hand, I believe that I fall short of what I have been asked to do, if I do not TRY ... to repeat, as best as I am able, what I have been shown of the Divine Creation ~ within my own little sphere, or tiny microcosm. It is my belief that God expects nothing more from us, yet this definitely involves a building component, wherein we repeat on smaller scale the same Creative process(es) which we can observe at large in the world around us.
This cannot be completed alone, or even through the mere acceptance of the proffered Hand of Providence. For if we were meant to relate only to `God above' [transcendent Deity], we would not be having this conversation, or discussion right now. Our fellow man ~ is not expendable. We must not overlook the lateral arm of the Cross, any more than the vertical.
Curiously, from the center of the cube, there are six outer faces, although each face can be regarded in another fashion. If each face of a cube is the BASE of a pyramid, there are the four corners [this is a mandala, four-sided, often associated with familiar elements] ... and the apex of each pyramid is the center of this cube. The cube is actually a 3-dimensional cross, having not simply one set of intersecting lines [an even-armed cross] ... but an additional cross is formed at the remaining right-angle to the first cross.
This is much easier to visualize than describe; or perhaps I have just done a poor job of it. What does it have to do with us being Gods? Aha. "God is the Great Geometer." We [are asked to] repeat this, on a smaller scale. As yet, we work with a very limited set of Platonic solids, and even with our most amazing accomplishments in such fields as modern medicine and nanotechnology, we do not begin to even scratch the surface relative to what Mankind may one day attain.
I take all this, not so much as granted [for that will get into Grace, as theologians describe it], as simply an implicit part or aspect of the Divine Plan. That Plan must surely have existed from the very Beginning, as well as have encompassed, even in one moment of time, the sum-total, or final attainment, achieved only in the penultimate moment of Cosmic Manifestation/Creation. It makes perfect sense to me that the `Big Crunch' will require an even amount of time to occur as the `Big Bang' ... and when all is said [the Word] and done [as in, `Thy Will be ~'], we shall ALL be ~ complete!
Gatekeeper
Shades of Reason
We can certainly destroy ourselves and our habitation by defying God. Likewise, we can sustain life as well as our habitation by our surrender to God.
It ultimately comes down to what kind of god you wish to be -- We can either serve the one true God and surrender ourselves to Him, whereby we will one day realize His Kingdom, or we can defy Him and attempt to rule the earth through selfish ambition, whereby we will eventually destroy our habitation and ourselves.
"If anyone would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross and follow me. For whoever would save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for my sake will find it." Which simply means to forsake our carnal selves or that part of us that attempts to rule over other beings, and surrender to God, His is love and then extend His love towards all His creations.
(We ourselves being vessels of death or vessels of life) Name your God/god and Bleed The Freak. In other words: Forsake God our life force and die, or forsake Satan our destructive and carnal selves, and live.
Know your role!
GK
Gatekeeper
Shades of Reason
-- Thomas, If you don't know your role as a god, then I don't know what to tell you. Just don't sell your soul to the church. It could very well be that they fake it in attempt to fool the world and that IS Beast! --
We (Mankind) ARE the fallen from heaven, gods loosed upon this earth. If we truly want to live, then complete surrender to God and His love is required, not a surrender to church dogma.
[youtube]-kflXxVS9RU[/youtube]
GK
--We (Mankind) ARE the fallen from heaven, gods loosed upon this earth. If we truly want to live, then complete surrender to God and His love is required, not a surrender to church dogma.
[youtube]-kflXxVS9RU[/youtube]
GK