Christian propaganda calling Allah Moon God a lie.

Never heard of the Moon God thing either.

Do you think that God really cares by what name we call him?
(insert name here)..........

My uncle often says......"dear Bill in heaven..." I dont think God would mind being called Bill. as long as we communicate with him. I think its us, the humans who have put too much emphasis on the details, that "we" have added, rather than the true nature of what we are suppose to feel........ that being a personal relationship with Him(Bill) !!!

Love the Grey
 
I personally don't care whether it's the truth or a lie.

The trouble with religion is that nothing is ever black and white. Everything is always fuzzy. If it's "true," it's never as "true" as the day sky is blue. If it's a "lie," it's never as "false" as the night sky is black. In the good ol' days when we used to have Christianity vs. Islam debates here on these forums, the moon god argument was a favourite. On the Islam side, the idea that Christians were idolaters and polytheists was a favourite. But I always had the feeling that these kinds of discussions were always pointless because of the motivation behind it, which was to put down the other religion and promote your own.

The name "Allah" probably was used to refer to some moon god prior to the advent of Islam and Jews and Muslims are probably right that the Trinity does equate to a form of idolatry, that Christians should revise their theology. But even if this were true, the name "Allah" doesn't refer to a moon god anymore and the Trinity isn't even set-in-stone in Christianity. It's just an interpretation. (Oh, and it doesn't matter what Elohim meant back then. We know the Tanakh is really talking about the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.)

The later Christians got confused about what the early proto-Christians meant with their mysterious terminology. They knew it was important to be "monotheistic." They just forgot what was really "fundamental" and "essential" to Christianity and created a number of creeds associated with the Trinity and Jesus being God. Christianity was supposed to take the Gentile Christians away from pagan idolatry. The Seven Noahide Laws as outlined in Acts 21 was the one "creed" they forgot.

The Quran contains references to important people in the Tanakh, so it has to be talking about the Jewish God Hashem. Who would believe that Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and Moses worshipped a "moon god" named "Allah?" We know it's unlikely they did. The Tanakh wasn't even written in Arabic. It's more likely that "Allah" is equivalent to Hashem.

In religion, you may be able to show how something may be true, but you can never really prove it. That's because what you propose is just a theory. There are other possibilities. To think that your theory is the only correct theory is a very biased attitude.

But bias isn't the problem. The problem is the wrong kind of bias. What would you make of Jesus and his predecessor Hillel saying that loving your neighbour was equivalent to fulfilling the whole Law? That's a pretty biased attitude. It implies that all other commandments are secondary. If you could be kind to your neighbour, all other commandments temporarily become "optional." You'd skip the Sabbath to help your neighbour. After you've finished helping your neighbour, all the commandments become mandatory again.

Nothing is absolute. There are no absolutes in religion. Everything is relative. It's just a question of deciding what's more important. God is important, not because He is absolute, but because of reasons I cannot going into detail here, He's just important. You don't have to believe in God if you don't want to; nobody is forcing you to believe in Him. It's your choice. Do you think God is important?

The moon god argument is silly and pointless because it doesn't really address an important issue. It's a way to put down Islam and that doesn't really help anyone except those who like to play that kind of game. Muslims will simply hit back by saying the Trinity is idolatry or that it assigns partners to God. That kind of game gets us nowhere.

NiceCupOfTea can have his views because as he's told us a number of times already, he had a negative experience of Islam. I'm assuming it has to do with him being exposed to some very legalistic attitudes in Islam, just like there is legalism in Christianity with regards to Trinitarian theology.

Moon god, Trinity or not, Islam will still be Islam and Christianity will still be Christianity.
The pre-Islamic Name "Allah" was for the "Creator God". There are questions as to whether this pre-Islamic God was the superior God, but it is known there were other gods (family, associates, etc.), with this Creator God. After the event of Islam, all associations with familia were vanquished, and Allah stands alone as the supreme Creator of the Universe (according to Islam).

The "moon god" reference is myth, or exageration.
 
from what I've read it seem perfectly valid

the islamic assumption is that allah and the God of the Bible are the same thing, IMO they are not.

How do I know this ? as someone who was a muslim but later became a Christian allah and the God of the Bible are different entities IMO, is that one upmanship ? not at all its simply the truth as I see it.

You are wrong. As I showed, Allah is just another Linguistic expression for El the God of the Bible and Abraham. Muhammad definitely considered the One God to be his god and the God of Abraham. Islam recognises all of the Jewish prophets plus Jesus of Nazareth the second last Jewish Prophet.

Allah/El (JHWY) is the one singular God, indivisible. Allah and El are names for the same thing. A comparison is that Canaan, David's Israel, and Palestine are names for the same region known as the Jordan Transforme Rift Valley.

The more obvious fact is that the Triple God of Christianity is as said, a Trinity. Abraham's God and Muhammad's God are Monotheistic, the ONE GOD. Christianity is patterned off Indo-European Paganism in which Trinities are the rule and not the exception.

The ONE GOD (Allah or El) did not fornicate with a human virgin to produce a god-man hybrid. That god-man came from Zoroastrian/Mithraic, Insular Celtic (Lugh), Greek (Apollo), Teutonic (Baldur), Gaulish Celtic (Lieu), Roman Hesus or Sol Invictus. Most Indo-European religions also had besides Father God and Son of God, added a Holy Spirit (Spenta Mainyu literally in Zoroastrianism and Mithraism). Some of the trinities had a Father, Son, and Mother Goddess.

Therefore, Allah and El/JHWY are names for the same God. The Christian Trinity is/are a Pagan God(s) similar to other Indo-European Pagan religions.

4th Century evolving Christianity felt it was losing its Monotheistic claim, so it invented a Trinity (Tertullian). They made it a mysterious trinity what was also a One God as well as three (disguised as separate persons inside of one overall God.)

That is irrational 3=1, 3+1=3. 1+3=1 and that is totally irrational. Christians dismiss the contradiction by simply saying it is a mystery.

I would classify Judaism and Islam as Abrahamic Religions.

I would classify Christianity, Zoroastrianism, Hinduism, Celtic (Druid) Paganism, and the religion of the Scythians and most likely the original Indo-European Paganism as theological cousins. The Christian God bears no resemblance to the Monotheistic God of Abrahamic Islamo-Judaism.

I ask Christian propagandists show me how Allah is different from El. Moreover, let us have no quibbling over Linguistic names. American Christians use the German term Gott or God for the god of Abraham. Abraham was not a German or Saxon. However, I do not use that as an argument but a satire on confused Christians who quibble on Allah and El.

Calling Allah a Moon God is a deliberate lie either by people who are stupid or psychopathic.

Amergin
 
Questions about what worshipers of this faith or that are truly directing their worship toward may be fuzzy, but questions of historical fact are black and white. Like: Mithraists did not believe that Mithra was born of a human virgin in a manger with shepherds and wise men all around, etc.

You never know, some Mithraist who wanted to explore his religion further could have had the desire to write a novel about a fantasy he has about Mithra being born in a manger with shepherds and wise men around him. He goes all the way to Bethlehem to make his story come true and voila, it happens!

The main reason we think this didn't happen is that somehow his manuscripts are lost. After his story comes true he decides to celebrate and gets drunk. He falls asleep and knocks down a candle. His house burns down and he dies in the fire. His novel is never published.

Just saying!!:eek::D

NO, NO, NO! Prior to Muhammad, Allah was used by Arabic-speaking Jews to mean the Jewish God, by Arabic-speaking Christians to mean the Christian God, and by hanafis (native Arabic monotheists) to mean the One and Only One God. It was always used by those who believe that there is
only a God of Everything, never by those who believed that there was one god of the moon and another god of the sun and a god of thunder and a god of this and a god of that. The meaning of the word is "THE" God as opposed to "a" god, and claims that it ever meant anything else are simply a fabrication.
The pre-Islamic Name "Allah" was for the "Creator God". There are questions as to whether this pre-Islamic God was the superior God, but it is known there were other gods (family, associates, etc.), with this Creator God. After the event of Islam, all associations with familia were vanquished, and Allah stands alone as the supreme Creator of the Universe (according to Islam).

The "moon god" reference is myth, or exageration.

When I said "probably," I was being ironic. My point was that even if you could prove that there was a god named "Allah" prior to the advent of Islam, its meaning changed when Islam came along. But people should not miss the real motivation for such an argument. It's to give people a reason to dismiss Islam altogether as a valid religion. A whole religion is thrown in the bin just because the name of its God is associated with another god just before its introduction. I would not want that kind of tactic used on Christianity.

My philosophy is that no religion or tradition has absolute validity. They all have their flaws. Some of those flaws have more to do with flawed interpretations than anything that is actually fundamental to a religion, and there is a lot of disagreement anyway on what is actually fundamental to various religions. The least we can say is that some things are more "important," noble, honourable, valuable or constructive than others. Therefore nothing is absolute; it's all relative and it's all a matter of judgment.

I strongly disagree with the idea that people should just flock to a religion/tradition just because they find a flaw in one of its concepts. There is something more important than the arguments that a religion makes when choosing a religion: community. People are just as important as the arguments a religion makes about its validity and its various claims. That's because religion is about people too.

A religion draws people together into a family, and when a person converts to another religion, they lose a member of that family. The second religion gains power and the first one loses power. Adherents of the first religion feel persecuted and oppressed. The question of whether the convert had a valid reason for converting depends on the relationships he had with his first "family." A conversion can either be motivated by a real need or may be based on something trivial and petty. A person who converts over trivial and petty matters commits an injustice against his original religion.

If I want to decide whether a religion is valid or not, it's never going to be black and white. There are other considerations besides whether God is one or three, whether something is idolatry or if the God of a religion shares the same name with a previous god. It's how that religion treats its people. It's the human aspect. Nothing completely validates or invalidates a religion. There's always a limit to the implications of an argument.

You may have a "good argument," but the more important question may be whether it actually helps or harms anyone. What's happening in the real world? Let's get away from theology and look at the social, political and economic situation. What does this "good argument" do to people? Does it lead to a Holocaust? You may decide that it's much better to keep this "good argument" to yourself. It may be logically sound, but if it leads to genocide or murder, you are guilty of a great sin. You have missed the mark by not considering the human aspect.

As for the name "Allah" and my prior memory of some discussion of it having to do with a pagan deity, whether it was a "moon god" or not, I can't remember what people said during that discussion. It may not have been a discussion at all but a web page presenting a particular view of the name "Allah." Whatever the case, I eventually lost interest in the idea because I always sensed there was something controversial about such an argument.

After a long time of not caring or investigating further, this thread comes up. In response to bobx's and Quahom's posts, I will say this. I decided to just have a brief look at the page in Wikipedia on the name "Allah."

The page suggests that the name Allah was "previously used by pagan Meccans" to "refer to a creator deity." It also says that "Allah" literally means "the deity," so Allah isn't just a "name" but also a "title." This is why it probably would have been used by Arabic Christians and Jews as well because it's a generic title that doesn't belong to any deity. If religions are brands, then it's not a trademark you can claim. The "name" can belong to just about any God/god regarded as "special."
 
Salty

Real Christianity is a love relationship with God not a mere religion. People dont need religion they need relationship.
 
And you don't think the same is said with every bit of furvor, belief, intent, knowing by Bahai, Muslim, Jew, Hindu.....


never heard it said before. Real Christianity is not the same as every other religion.
 
Real hinduism...

Real Islam

Real Bahai

Real Judaism..

Real Christianity.... so how many Christians are 'real Christians'? How many denominations fit your paradigm?

Being one with G!d, doesn't require any name, can be found in every religion, and without religion or titles.

imo
 
Real hinduism...

Real Islam

Real Bahai

Real Judaism..

Real Christianity.... so how many Christians are 'real Christians'? How many denominations fit your paradigm?

Being one with G!d, doesn't require any name, can be found in every religion, and without religion or titles.

imo

whatever, paradigms are irrelevant all that matters is intimacy with God, this only happens through Christ.
 
whatever, paradigms are irrelevant all that matters is intimacy with God, this only happens through Christ.
and that would be your opinion. Which is fine that that is your belief. But thinking that everyone should believe as you is as ludicrous as you believing as someone else.

I actually believe the same as you have stated. However I believe our definitions as to what is the Christ is completely different.

He said I and the father are one. He said he does nothing but what the father does through him. He said the only way to the father is through him, and he said that everything he had done we will do and more.

Christ is a concept, a connection, and understanding oneness with G!d, that EVERYONE has a spark of divinity within, that EVERYONE whatever name they call G!d has access, that is when you honor the Christ within you.

As whatever so you think, say or do to another you do unto him...
 
Back
Top