Are You Afraid Of Death

Are You Afraid Of Death?

  • Yes.

    Votes: 2 13.3%
  • No.

    Votes: 13 86.7%

  • Total voters
    15
Death for me has become more like a transition. There's a lot of people I know that have made that transition, .. family members, friends and I know we all have a ticket so I'll have a lot of company when I get there.

My faith tells me there's nothing to be afraid of on the other side.. death is a messenger of joy!

As a Materialistic Naturalist, I believe that the atoms of my body will over a long time be recycled mostly on this Earth with a few maybe escaping into outer space. I am composed of atoms made in the cores of ancient giant stars billions of years ago. Most of my atoms were on Earth for most of the past 4.5 billion years. My own atoms in my body have been exchanged during growth and metabolism as well as aging. My atoms were on Earth before I was conceived and they will be around the Earth long after my biological function has ended and my mind composed of neuronal circuits is erased. However, my atoms will be somewhere in a billion more years. Not all of my present atoms were in me when I was born. Many new atoms were incorporated into my flesh and many were shed and excreted. I am not the same exact man I was 40 years ago. What makes me myself is the complexity of brain circuits that give me consciousness, personality, memory, rationality, emotion, perception, love, and wonder at the universe. Brain circuits are mostly retained even if they must shed and add molecules to the neurons, axons, dendrites, and circuits that comprise networks. That gives me a continuim from my childhood in the Highlands to my present aging doctor living in a quaint cottage with occasional views of the Northern Lights.

I would like to stress here though that we should make provision for our loved ones when we pass on..so write a Will and it will save those who succeed you some grief. ;)

Excellent advice for all of us. Thanks Mate.

Amergin

"I don't fear death. I just don't want to be there when it happens." - Woody Allen
 
As a Materialistic Naturalist, I believe that the atoms of my body will over a long time be recycled mostly on this Earth with a few maybe escaping into outer space.
I been holdin off too long, I can't any longer...


Reincarnation, by Wallace McRae

What is reincarnation? A cowboy asked his friend.
It starts, his old pal told him, when your life comes to an end.
They wash your neck and comb your hair and clean your fingernails,
And put you in a padded box away from life’s travails.

The box and you goes in a hole that’s been dug in the ground.
Reincarnation starts in when you’re planted neath that mound.
Them clods melt down, just like the box, and you who is inside.
And that’s when you begin your transformation ride.

And in a while the grass will grow upon your rendered mound,
Until some day, upon that spot, a lonely flower is found.
And then a horse may wander by and graze upon that flower
That once was you, and now has become your vegetated bower.

Now, the flower that the horse done eat, along with his other feed,
Makes bone and fat and muscle essential to the steed.
But there’s a part that he can’t use and so it passes through.
And there it lies upon the ground, this thing that once was you.

And if perchance, I should pass by and see this on the ground,
I’ll stop awhile and ponder at this object that I’ve found.
I’ll think about Reincarnation and life and death and such,
And come away concludin’, why, you ain’t changed all that much.
 
I'm sorry Chris but I must strongly disagree with Beckers understanding of Maslow and what a "Peak" experience really is. Apparently he has an intellectual understanding but not an experiential one.

Well Mark, I'd love to hear you expand on that. I often find myself taking a rather stark position on things, but there really is an overabundance of plattitudinal pablum in most discussions and I'm mostly just trying to take one of the other unoccupied positions. My experience so far is that one has to accept a modicum of terror and uncertainty to get on with releasing the security mechanisms that keep us from real experience. Fear, terror, anger at the discovery that there is no inherent fairness mechanism, giving up the false sense of control, giving up on the mythology of identity; the sense of ultimate aloneness that comes from releasing security blankets in order to penetrate the deeper layers of one's programming, and living in that uncoddled state day after day- that's the price to be paid for self-actualization.

But that's not "peak experience." Peak experience happens in that clean, absolutely alert, on the very cutting edge of awareness state. There is no comfort, hope, or self-congratulatory mytho-identology there. It's the knife edge of awareness, like snow skiing or motorcycle racing just beyond the edge of control where there is no time to think and only the adrenaline awareness of sheer being exists. It happens in a different way in quiet moments too. As far as the dread of death is concerned, the point I'm trying to make is that words like "embrace" and "accept" dull the real experience of living with the sheer adrenaline terror of it. To find comfort in acceptance of the unacceptable must somehow dull the experience of life and limit the "peak" of experience, as it were.

Don't know if that makes any sense.

Chris
 
Golf is the closest thing to religion I have. Golf is like a dialog between all the inner angels and demons. It's a personal quest for self-mastery and control. Much better holistically than meditation. It's liquid physics. It's anger management. It's sheer Zen. It's a lifelong pursuit. You versus you.

Chris
 
Wil,........... love it!!!!!!
Chris........ I understand, actually. you vs you, when you get it wrong, you have no one to blame but yourself..etc. and when you get it right, all is well with the world. LOL. (who'd thunk that a game like golf could be spiritual???) LOL

Love the Grey
 
Death? No problem. We know each other well. Although my own close calls show me that this is one MahaDeva not to be trifled with, I also know the role of such. Death serves under the 1st Aspect, the Destroyer. And unless certain of our limitations are destroyed, namely that which keeps us anchored to/within the physical plane, we shall NEVER accomplish our Purpose for being here.

Death is the greatest Deliverer there is. It is not that we can almost reach enlightenment while here, but lack the hand of Death to finally tide us over. It is, rather, necessary for us to come to the NATURAL end of our stay in any given incarnation. This is something which the Buddha knew ... which the Christ knew. Both succumbed to Death. But the whole point of the natural end of physical plane living is so that we may accept the invitation from this great Angel, enter into the next phase of LIFE, and come one step closer to grasping and fulfilling our raison d'etre.

Our relationship to Death should be a positive and pleasant one. Instead of fear and apprehension, for which we may in largest part thank the Christian and especially the Roman Catholic Churches ... there should be a welcoming attitude, and the warm feeling that comes when you know you're about to see a friend you haven't seen for many years. Although Death Itself is certainly such a friend (not directly known since your last time around), I mean simply that in a more enlightened society, people will understand how important it is to prepare for their transition with Reason, positive anticipation and good sense.

In the future we will understand on much better footing just what it is that happens at the moment of death and in the days and weeks thereafter. We will have no fundamental reason(s) to fear, because we will recognize Death, and we will have done away with this foolishness about an eternity in an impossible `heaven.' People will stop groaning when someone reminds them that Earth is the schoolroom, and Life the great Teacher. They will understand that it is necessary to return in order to complete their studies. Instead of denial, fear and apprehension, they will instead smile and look forward to the eventual completion of their every Goal ... knowing that the surest way to reach it/them, is to become lost in Service to the Greatest Good for the Greatest number. After all, the Greater ALWAYS includes the lesser.

Why is it that despite all this [which I know as True, far truer even than I know the back of my own hand], I do have certain apprehensions about death ... which I'm sure pretty much anyone in my shoes would, and does have? Because of the same reasons many of us feel apprehensive regarding other matters when it comes to God and religion/spirituality. What I know, is that I have not even BEGUN to fulfil my Purpose for being here, even in this one, short incarnation. I know my shortcomings, my weaknesses and also the opportunities missed. I know what it is that I could have accomlished even 10 yrs ago, had I devoted the necessary effort and maintained discipline. In short, I feel the burden of GUILT over what did not get DONE.

And in the last analysis, isn't this what all god-fearing (!) Christians will speak of, if and when they begin to face the inevitable fact of their own death ... be it later in life, or perhaps due to an untimely and unexpected illness? Isn't it simply that we feel, recognize or believe that somehow we have failed, fallen short, or otherwise missed the mark, such that we aren't quite sure how we will be greeted on the other side? Or, in the most extreme cases, isn't it the fear of an impossible and eternal hell which backs us into a corner and rattles our teeth? Maybe just the fear of the unknown, and an uncertainty regarding what happens next, no matter what we've been brought up to believe, or come to mouth blithely each Saturday, each Sunday, or even daily, five times facing East?

This is all understandable. It is important, if you are at all like me in this last regard, to try and see things from another - somewhat more informed and enlightened - point of view. They exist; I assure you. ;) And what they'd rather we try to understand and accept is that yes, sure enough, there are many things that each of us will not accomplish in this one, short lifetime ... even out of that small set of objectives, or Purposes, for which our Soul has taken incarnation. If it all COULD be accomlished in one lifetime, it might be a disaster, a tragedy, that we have managed to do so little. Even a Mother Teresa, however, could not - did not - attain to that. Thus, we need to first of all, cut ourselves a little slack. Or, to be clear, we need to learn to FORGIVE ourselves. Love ourselves, yes, but above all, FORGIVE OURSELVES.

If we can do that, the rest comes naturally and much more easily. I screwed up ... on numerous occasions, in numerous ways, yes. But let's stop trying to watch that portion of water flowing on & on, farther & farther downstream, long after it's passed under the proverbial bridge. I cannot gather it up again, and that wouldn't really help anything anyway. The more I lament my mistakes, or weep over my shortcomings, the less I'm focused on what I STILL can do to put things right. And this putting things right, after all, doesn't consist of endless backpedaling; rather, it means moving FORWARD, and doing those things which I DO [still] feel need doing!

It doesn't matter if I'm 15 or 105 or 50. There is always something I can still do ... not so much to prepare for Death, although this too can be beneficial. It's just as well, perhaps far better, to instead focus on the very Purpose(s) for which I'm here to begin with ... and the best attitude I can imagine for doing that is one of complete Forgetfulness regarding the hangups. If my memory serves to remind me of the mistakes I've made, SO THAT I can avoid them as I walk on down the road, then Good. That's part of what the Memory is for. It's called Right Recollection or Right Memory on the Eightfold Noble Path, and a beautiful way to practice this is to try and focus on the Good in others, while being glad to forget any ways in which they may have wronged us. I think there's some jabber about that in the `Lord's Prayer,' too ... but hey, I don't expect many folks to pay attention to these similarities, or facts.

Still, we need to learn to Forgive ourselves, and accept that Death comes to greet us all - NOT because we have done anything wrong, not because it's time for punishment, and certainly NOT because it isn't the job of this MahaDeva to make it possible for us to move to the next stage. How backwards, how twisted, how mangled is our interpretation and understanding of the facts. How sad, very sad, then, for this Angel. What a thankless job, what a misunderstood role ... and what an unenlightened society that Angel serves. In the East, Death is much more understood, greatly appreciated and welcomed. The people in Buddhist and Hindu countries aren't exactly suicidal, they don't do stupid crap so they can shuffle off before their time, and they are much, much healthier when it comes to spiritual and religious matters. In the West, we have largely become poisoned, psychologically, regarding this matter. Dear God, what's it going to take for your `good followers' to begin to see?

Those who speak the loudest, do not know. Those who know best, are neither allowed nor desirous of speaking aloud. Somewhere in between are those who genuinely yearn, but are not always even willing to ask ... for they have been told, taught and scolded into believing that this is the greatest taboo. Even when a Library may contain thousands upon thousands of illuminative manuscripts, or careful, step-by-step GUIDES to this very topic - how to approach it, what happens during and immediately after, what to expect regarding x, y and z - even then, it has been deemed far more useful to maintain the status quo, and to keep the MASSES in ignorance. This is done, of course, for the same reason that a corrupt political regime would prefer its citizens to remain fearful, easily-manipulable SHEEP.

No Good Shepherd can avail those who give Him no allegiance, and who continue to pray to the wrong God. As Black Sabbath put it:
You turn to Me in all your worldly greed and pride
But will you turn to Me when it's your turn to die?
No, it's more lip service ... and perhaps a vain hoping that we have prepared for ourselves that little spot in Heaven which apparently is the only justification for some for the awful suffering and misery of life on earth. Why, people, oh WHY do you think that SO many of us have now had out-of-body and near-death experiences, wherein about 99% of us that talk about it are glad to share that what we've seen is something exceedingly, tremendously positive - inspiring - wonderful - and Good?


I really do wish you-know-Who would start a few television spots, Outer Limits style, and make a few things known so that we could skip over the worst of it all ... before it's too late. You know, simple things, which many folks already know, but which the rest NEED TO ACCEPT. Stuff like:
  1. Yes, there are environmental problems. Fix them; you don't have long.
  2. Death is. Live your life so that your own conscience isn't guilty and you'll have nothing to fear. Otherwise, yes, it's lost time.
  3. What does that mean? Yes, it means you're coming back. Deal with it. Oh, you don't believe me? Sorry friend. You're no better than the next guy, and HE'S got to do it. Your Lord did it. How strange, that you feel you're beyond these Cosmic Laws that apply to every single atom, let alone man, woman and child. Oh well, we'll give you another seven or so - and see if it's begun to sink in by then!
  4. Meanwhile, yes, those who aren't living in denial, you can help. Same approach, pretty much: Teach and preach, but more of the former, and most importantly of all, LIVE what you believe and know. Even the Christian tries to do that. Just be ready to be "persecuted for My sake" - especially by those who rail on about Me the loudest, yet utterly fail to grasp what I taught, or why.
  5. Let go the martyr complex. It really makes people loathe you. The Christians are STILL finding this one out. What people really need, is help. They need self-forgetfulness on your part, however, in order to get it. The less that you're in the picture, the more that I can be. And that's Good for everyone (pretty much by definition).
  6. Ignore the tea-baggers and Republican'ts. Yes, they hold up progress, but their days are numbered. The world isn't big enough, or resilient enough, for their crap. Eventually, such small-mindedness and foolishness will do you all in. This goes back to #1 and #4. Yes, Earth corrects a lot of Humanity's mistakes, if the globe survives (and that's truly an IF). It's just a pity when so much needless suffering occurs in the meantime.
  7. Let's see: A greed/exploitation-based capitalistic society is still deemed acceptable by you folk, yet a COMMUNITY-based system of cooperation for a Greater Good is judged evil. Umm, no. You are some of the most stubborn people imaginable. Either fix it and fix it fast, or suffer the consequences. These, of course, are natural. Blame the heavens, blame each other or blame the spaghetti monster; no one cares. You did it to YOURSELVES. You have never had more help in getting out of this mess than now. The entire planet is bathed in Light and Love. Ignore those who are too narrow to grasp this, and don't lose a single breath arguing with those whose agenda is to screw each other into the ground. Their reward is coming.
Sadly, people devote themselves to trying to unfold something horrific and evil upon this planet ... and while most of us are way too aware of the facts to believe in such nonsense, there are actually entire religions that want to see our beautiful globe go up in smoke. I can't imagine a better forum and thread to address this than one on being AFRAID OF DEATH. I am not afraid of death. I am afraid, however, that these sickos are going to succeed in killing our/my planet. I want them off of it. NOW.

If a great big spaceship landed and Jesus walked out, and said, "COME my children, COME, board this great ARK so that I may take you to the Promised Land," ahhhhh, I would praise God in Highest Heaven for this miracle. I would kiss his feet, my feet, your feet. I would celebrate for three months straight, and I would sing his praises forever. For I know what would happen next. He'd take these sorry, miserable lot, fly this wonderful Ark of Deliverance to the Moon - or nearest convenient asteroid - and land it. He'd extend that little atmosphere bubble long enough for these monsters to exit his ark ... and he'd leave.

Then we'd have a whole lot less hindrance. We'd be free of these freaks who want to actually DESTROY our beautiful world due to their sick, twisted interpretations of ... oh screw it, these people are just messed up.

I'd much rather know that all we have left is a few tyrants and runaway political nut jobs. The religious undertoe keeps us from dealing with the real threats to global annihilation. With them out of the picture, it's much easier to understand the power-plays and old-as-the-hills games which dictators enjoy. And the People are tired of this crap. We won't let ...

... oh wait, is this a rant? Is it about Death? Or that transition we call death?

It is, actually, about my own fears - less of death, certainly not of Death, but definitely of those who want to die a litttttttle too much. These are those with the Martyr complex, spoken of in #5 above. And yes, they do exist ... perhaps in larger numbers than some of us realize. They are messed up in the head, far worse than you or I. Believe me. After all, I may be misunderstood. I don't, however, desire ON ANY LEVEL, planetocide. The most I hope for, is that a suitable rock for these BACKWARDS types really can be found ... so that the rest of us can get on with the show.

And for those who STILL can't grasp the standards, or appreciate the fact that Objective ones DO exist, I would remind you: I didn't make them up. I don't know them all. I really am just an egg. If you think that Chaos, however, is meant to reign supreme ... if you believe that we'll eventually figure it all out by just killing enough of each other, in enough new and exciting ways, with a zillion permutations on hate and death and war ... ahhh, well, I'll bet on my odds over yours, any day.

Thank you, and have a nice life.
 
Are you afraid of death? I mean your death. Is it something you think about often or sometimes?

I am afraid of death. I find that the older I get the more I think about it. I'm trying to live a healthier lifestyle. I wonder if I have the beginnings of a disease that will kill me eventually. I think about my brother and my father. My brother died suddenly of a heart attack at age 44. My father was killed in an auto accident a couple of days before Christmas. My sister has type 1 diabetes. I wonder if I have the good genes or the bad genes. I try to be extra careful. I wear a seat belt now. I think about my kids and how much it will hurt them if I die. I think about all the things I haven't done. I think about it when I fly. I think about the randomness of death- how it just happens accidentally.

What are your thoughts about your own death? Is it something one takes for granted until they reach a certain age?

Chris

An interesting question Chris :)

I think it is natural and actually a good thing to love life and desire to live it to the full. However for a spiritual person death should not be something to fear. We have the promise of something after - whether Nirvana, reincarnation, heaven or if you are a Christian like myself resurrection from the dead as well as a spiritual afterlife. There is Sufi saying in Islamic tradition attributed to Jesus that I very much like: "This world is a bridge: Pass over it". Now that is not a Gnostic derision for the flesh or the eartly world. This world is created by God and is a gift. But it is also, in many respects, a bridge to a higher reality. Our final destination is not here but in the presence of God, unity with God. Our true home isn't here.

I think that most peoples fears of death is not fear of death itself but rather fear of loss of existence as we know it. But that I am afraid is something we must all accept - we are all finite beings!
 
Well Mark, I'd love to hear you expand on that. I often find myself taking a rather stark position on things, but there really is an overabundance of plattitudinal pablum in most discussions and I'm mostly just trying to take one of the other unoccupied positions. My experience so far is that one has to accept a modicum of terror and uncertainty to get on with releasing the security mechanisms that keep us from real experience. Fear, terror, anger at the discovery that there is no inherent fairness mechanism, giving up the false sense of control, giving up on the mythology of identity; the sense of ultimate aloneness that comes from releasing security blankets in order to penetrate the deeper layers of one's programming, and living in that uncoddled state day after day- that's the price to be paid for self-actualization.

But that's not "peak experience." Peak experience happens in that clean, absolutely alert, on the very cutting edge of awareness state. There is no comfort, hope, or self-congratulatory mytho-identology there. It's the knife edge of awareness, like snow skiing or motorcycle racing just beyond the edge of control where there is no time to think and only the adrenaline awareness of sheer being exists. It happens in a different way in quiet moments too. As far as the dread of death is concerned, the point I'm trying to make is that words like "embrace" and "accept" dull the real experience of living with the sheer adrenaline terror of it. To find comfort in acceptance of the unacceptable must somehow dull the experience of life and limit the "peak" of experience, as it were.

Don't know if that makes any sense.

Chris


Hey Chris,
Yup, the edge of awareness is an apt description, but something more. A peak experience is absolutely devoid of emotion as you describe it. It is an oceanic experience, and understand I am using conventional terms here which really are not very accurate. You see in a Peak Experience there is no you at all so there isn't anyone to feel anything. Speaking in terms of "my experience" is quite non-sensical in view of the happening.
Even in what Maslow regards as a "Plateau" experience the sense of me is completely gone.

The adreneline rush the terror you speak of is what happens to a person, a personality or ego if you wish. In reality there isn't anyone there to experience anything. But here's the lick, when reality begins to express itself and awareness is happening it is the most beautiful thing ever, once I felt tears streaming down my face but didn't really feel sad or happy just this awareness of perfect brilliant stillness.

It is why those who have tasted this no longer need religion, it is a boat used to cross the river and then discarded. For we find that there was no shore, and no river to begin with.

Mark
 
no emotion? Is bliss not an emotion, i guess maybe not it is s feeling? High, euphoria without drugs or exercise....

I've had some experiences, edge of awarness yes...like you watch the physical world drop away....or be there, but not matter, become inconsequential....and bliss, euphoria take over....
 
no emotion? Is bliss not an emotion, i guess maybe not it is s feeling? High, euphoria without drugs or exercise....

I've had some experiences, edge of awarness yes...like you watch the physical world drop away....or be there, but not matter, become inconsequential....and bliss, euphoria take over....

Look carefully, as I described no emotion as Chris described it

A peak experience is absolutely devoid of emotion as you describe it.

The part of us that is human will have a human experience, the whole "mind/body" thing.
Again to use conventional language to describe the indescribable is so difficult :)

You know Wil, I really enjoy the human experience thing even more now than when I was younger, it seems everything is salient. Does that make sense?
 
Are you afraid of death? I mean your death. Is it something you think about often or sometimes?

I am afraid of death. I find that the older I get the more I think about it. I'm trying to live a healthier lifestyle. I wonder if I have the beginnings of a disease that will kill me eventually. I think about my brother and my father. My brother died suddenly of a heart attack at age 44. My father was killed in an auto accident a couple of days before Christmas. My sister has type 1 diabetes. I wonder if I have the good genes or the bad genes. I try to be extra careful. I wear a seat belt now. I think about my kids and how much it will hurt them if I die. I think about all the things I haven't done. I think about it when I fly. I think about the randomness of death- how it just happens accidentally.

What are your thoughts about your own death? Is it something one takes for granted until they reach a certain age?

Chris
I don't worry about death (it takes away from the rest of the day). I think about it from time to time (contemplate actually), but the reality is it won't matter after I'm gone (this world I mean). whilst I'm here, I try to maximize each moment that I do have. At the end of the day, I'm grateful for the gift I was given, and hopeful for the gift I might get (another 24 hours). But if I die in my sleep in between, it's all good and I won't care one way or the other.

It's just a transfer to another "duty station", Chris, but it is supposed to be the "BEST" duty station we ever get...kinda like your "dream billet". Some folk get timely notice, and some get emergency PCS orders, to be enacted ASAP, or IMMEDIATELY... ;)

You know what I mean.

To each man/woman, a number of days has been allotted. None of us know that number. And I think there is a good reason for that.

Ours is to Live, Laugh, Love, Grow and Mature here, now. We wouldn't if we knew the day and hour of our departure from this plane of existence...

We'd be "stressed" to the max, trying to make sure we got everything right.

Why wait to the last minute to put things in order, when one can put them in order on a day to day basis, and then go fishing...or "flying"? ;):D:D:D
 
Hi Chris

Great thread but I'm afraid I couldn't answer the poll as it's not a simple yes or no.

I am afraid of the dying process if it's a fearful or very pianful death .. I would rather just go splat and be dead. I am not afraid of actually being dead, it is just the next beginning. However I am terrified of Judgement Day because it will be too late then to make amends for my wrongs.

Gosh that sounds rather confused but I hope you see what I mean.
 
Hi Chris

Great thread but I'm afraid I couldn't answer the poll as it's not a simple yes or no.

I am afraid of the dying process if it's a fearful or very pianful death .. I would rather just go splat and be dead. I am not afraid of actually being dead, it is just the next beginning. However I am terrified of Judgement Day because it will be too late then to make amends for my wrongs.

Gosh that sounds rather confused but I hope you see what I mean.

Hi Sally,

That's actually what I meant. Are you afraid of being dead rather than alive? I'll put you down as a no.

Chris
 
Hey Chris,
Yup, the edge of awareness is an apt description, but something more. A peak experience is absolutely devoid of emotion as you describe it. It is an oceanic experience, and understand I am using conventional terms here which really are not very accurate. You see in a Peak Experience there is no you at all so there isn't anyone to feel anything. Speaking in terms of "my experience" is quite non-sensical in view of the happening.
Even in what Maslow regards as a "Plateau" experience the sense of me is completely gone.

Yes, I agree that there is no sense of self- emotional or otherwise in the peak experience. There is not even awareness of awareness, it's that pure. Oceanic is a good description, although the experience to me feels like unlimited, un delineated space with no shells, no layers, no substance, no nothing, no anything.

The adreneline rush the terror you speak of is what happens to a person, a personality or ego if you wish. In reality there isn't anyone there to experience anything. But here's the lick, when reality begins to express itself and awareness is happening it is the most beautiful thing ever, once I felt tears streaming down my face but didn't really feel sad or happy just this awareness of perfect brilliant stillness.
Yes, but the rest of the time I'm inhabiting my shell(s). In the beginning I experienced the peak state sort of accidentally through LSD, but it was in a diminished sort of "through the looking glass" form. The pursuit of re experience via chemical inducement almost immediately becomes an exercise in chasing one's tail, and I found that, although entrance into that pure state is always accidental, in order to live in the self-actualized condition that is most conducive to that accidental bliss I needed to begin to peel back the layers of artificial, sort of culturally induced security programming that I had built up to block my natural empathic and emotional responses. It's very difficult to get to the bottom of that stuff. After Mark died I was confronted with, and saw clearly the shield that I had unknowingly constructed around the essential terror of un-being. I found that there is no way to rationally transcend that terror, I just have to live with it. Any attempt to ameliorate it just adds a layer to the wall I'm trying to deconstruct.

It is why those who have tasted this no longer need religion, it is a boat used to cross the river and then discarded. For we find that there was no shore, and no river to begin with.

Mark

I totally agree. What I can't claim is that in death one continues on in that boundless state. I think I still need the observer in some capacity and I don't see any reason to believe that that observer continues after the essential loss of individuation. To believe that would be to add a layer of self-comfort. To construct with one hand while deconstructing with the other is personally disingenuous. That's the rub!

Happy birthday, BTW!

Chris
 
One thing I know for sure, the truth is true. I just have no real idea of what that is, but as you have discovered there is much that isn't true.
Thanks for the birthday wishes Chris!
 
One thing I know for sure, the truth is true. I just have no real idea of what that is, but as you have discovered there is much that isn't true.

Well, I would say that (and this kind of goes to another discussion nearby) there are two methods of approach that are essentially counter-productive, or at least don't work for me. One is placation through the building up of security mechanisms, and the other is the dampening of inhibition through substance use/abuse. Neither addresses the need to work through, or deconstruct our programming.

Chris
 
I agree :)

You know Chris, I spent so many years in search of the truth, meaning, purpose, etc..
For reasons I have already mentioned I just don't feel the need anymore. No need to figure the universe out, no need to overcome ego. I feel happy and content even though my demise is now one year closer.
There is a constant sense that I'm merely playing a role, because I can view the self doing things and saying things, the subject object thing as you describe. There is the observer or witness taking it all in without judgement or purpose.
Free from the need to figure out or find a reason why this consciousness will continue I'm just having a blast living and breathing. Sometimes I feel despair, sometimes great sadness, sometimes anger, sometimes filled with beauty and love, but it's all the human story. Epic in scope and shared with billions of others the story of life goes on, and will continue after this mind/body thing goes away.
And for some reason I feel totally okay with it all, as if everything is just as it should be, and that makes sense to me.
Foxes have their holes and birds their nests... You know?
 
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