The Godhead

[NiceCupOfTea]

According to you (And Thomas) Wil and I are not Christians because you 'think' we misrepresent Christianity. The truth is that the message of Jesus was never meant to become a religion, but rather a way of life as demonstrated by the man himself.

Being Christian entails surrender to God, which entails service to our fellow man and even other living beings. We were never meant to rule, but we were rather born to serve. Is this not the Christian message, NiceCupOfTea?


GK

Christianity is not a religion it is a love relationship with God.

as for whether u or wil are christians I have said nothing about that, you both hold to unchristian doctrine which is fine but if you then pass that off as Christianity then thats deception IMO.

 

[NiceCupOfTea]

Judging, I am asking a series of questions, a line of inquiry to define what you have previously stated. I am asking you to support your contention, judging no one.Evidently I am grossly misinterpretting your meaning...please clarify.

could have fooled me, sounds like judgement to me, still you are a god after all

 

[Gatekeeper]

Christianity is not a religion it is a love relationship with God.

as for whether u or wil are christians I have said nothing about that, you both hold to unchristian doctrine which is fine but if you then pass that off as Christianity then thats deception IMO.

I am a Christian, yet you claim I hold to unchristian doctrine, thus you deem me to be unchristian. What precisely is unchristian about my views, and how do I deceive? I submit that God is ONE and not three? That God is the great I AM All in All and All Things?

You disagree with my views, but your disagreement with what I hold to be true doesn't reflect on whether I am a Christian or not. You hold traditional views, paved by those who came before you. You jumped on the bandwagon and thus declare all other beliefs unchristian and deceptive because your establishment tells you what to think. I prefer to think for myself --

Pro 25:2 It is the glory of God to conceal things, but the glory of kings is to search things out.


GK

 

[Gatekeeper]

Panentheism and Christianity

OK. But this is panentheism, not Christianity. In Christianity, God is One and simple, not a composite, nor subject to the contingent.

God is the one and only self-subsisting actuality, so God exists as God, prior to and other than all any any modes of 'being' or 'existence'.

You act as if Panentheism is not compatible with Christianity, yet there are many Panentheistic Christians. If existence is God as Panentheism suggest, then God is looking inward, as God would have nothing to look to outside of Himself. All the focus must be placed on what's going on within the body of existence.

The overall inner workings are governed and managed if only by what we deem to be natural forces existing as a part of the whole. Much like our cells and how they work. Each cell has a duty to perform. Some cells never stray from their purpose, but then others do, such as a cancer cell. The cancerous cell then creates disharmony within parts of our bodies.

Lets say that our cells represent mankind. The infected area represents the earth. Much of humanity has strayed from our intended purpose, and have become like the rebellious cancer cell, which is why the world is in the shape it is in.

The rules and regulations that govern our existence are forever set in place. Unless we learn what they are, and how to live in in harmony with them, we will be destroyed because of our unwillingness to submit ourselves to the forces that govern our realities.

Is God involved in our lives, then? Yes! We have all we need to survive, but it is up to us to grab hold of it and live in a manner beneficial to all living things. It is up to us to utilize all we know about reality and the world, and come to desire what is wise for us. We will either destroy ourselves, or we will rise above and one day live in harmony with all existence.

Jesus just so happened to show us the way .... Love God (Life) and love one another as ourselves.

Panentheism suggests that God is the sum total of all things existing (Life) thus God did not create. All formed life and the universe and all that can be perceived by human faculty derives from Gods own substance/energy, which is in constant motion.

Why do I call existence God? Because existence is the absolute authority in life; all things are subject to existence no matter how hard we try to close our eyes and turn our heads from this reality. God IS: I Am All in All and All things.


GK

 

[wil]

Christianity is not a religion it is a love relationship with God.

as for whether u or wil are christians I have said nothing about that, you both hold to unchristian doctrine which is fine but if you then pass that off as Christianity then thats deception IMO.

so glad you don't see yourself as judgemental nor saying we ain't christian...

You know the fact of the matter is...you could be right. I may not be a Christian like most Christians. My goal is to follow Christ, strive to act like Christ and act like a Christian...it very well may be a completely different animal.

could have fooled me, sounds like judgement to me, still you are a god after all

Too funny, you still have yet to define your meaning.

Is that the reason folks make drive by statements so they don't have to answer for their meaning or results of their actions?

That was just yet another question in attempt to draw you into actual discussion of your post...

I think the thing is that you can believe what you want to but if you want to define your views as Christian then they need to fit within Christianity or at least have a strong case in terms of scripture. otherwise they are your own set of beliefs and there is nowt wrong with that.

 

[NiceCupOfTea]

I am a Christian, yet you claim I hold to unchristian doctrine, thus you deem me to be unchristian.

well i never said that you are not a christian, but you have said that I have said it twice now.

 

[Thomas]

Re: Panentheism and Christianity

You act as if Panentheism is not compatible with Christianity, yet there are many Panentheistic Christians.

There are many people claiming to be many things, but that doesn't make them right. Wil claims to be a nontheist theist, so go figure ...

Panentheistic Christianity is a contradiction in terms.

If existence is God as Panentheism suggest, then God is looking inward, as God would have nothing to look to outside of Himself. All the focus must be placed on what's going on within the body of existence.

But God is not a body. There is no inside or outside with God.

The overall inner workings are governed and managed if only by what we deem to be natural forces existing as a part of the whole.

God is not a composite.

Much like our cells and how they work.

Now you're anthropomorphising God. You're assuming God must be like 'things', and organic things in particular.

Panentheism suggests that God is the sum total of all things existing (Life) thus God did not create. All formed life and the universe and all that can be perceived by human faculty derives from Gods own substance/energy, which is in constant motion.

But God is not a substance/energy. God is not a material thing, so why should God conform to the laws that govern material things?

As I keep saying, philosophically and metaphysically, God is in a class of One. There is nothing to compare to God, nor to compare God to, but you keep making the fundamental assumption, and I would say an erroneous one, that God is like everything else.

If God is substance or energy, we would be able to locate God somewhere. somehow, in the physical universe ... or at least posit with a formula where and how God relates ... but we can't, because He isn't.

Why do I call existence God? Because existence is the absolute authority in life;

No it's not. Existence is just existence.

all things are subject to existence no matter how hard we try to close our eyes and turn our heads from this reality.

Exactly — God is not a material thing, nor does God have to conform to your material notions of reality.

God bless,

Thomas

 

[Thomas]

Is that the reason folks make drive by statements so they don't have to answer for their meaning or results of their actions?...

Wil, Good grief, when it comes to discussing Christianity, you are the master of the drive-by statement —eg:

My goal is to follow Christ, strive to act like Christ and act like a Christian

God bless

Thomas

 

[wil]

I think the thing is that you can believe what you want to but if you want to define your views as Christian then they need to fit within Christianity or at least have a strong case in terms of scripture. otherwise they are your own set of beliefs and there is nowt wrong with that.

Will you every explain this?

well i never said that you are not a christian, but you have said that I have said it twice now.

no?

Christianity is not a religion it is a love relationship with God.

as for whether u or wil are christians I have said nothing about that, you both hold to unchristian doctrine which is fine but if you then pass that off as Christianity then thats deception IMO.

So exactly what are you saying?

Wil, Good grief, when it comes to discussing Christianity, you are the master of the drive-by statement —eg:

My goal is to follow Christ, strive to act like Christ and act like a Christian

God bless

Thomas

And your issue with that statement is......?????

 

[NiceCupOfTea]

Will you every explain this?


no?
So exactly what are you saying?

its all quite clear, thanks.

 

[wil]

If it was clear, no one would be asking you to clarify.

 

[Thomas]

And your issue with that statement is......?????

Because it's a very easy thing to say ... but then you discounted those bits of Christianity that don't suit ...

God bless,

Thomas

 

[Gatekeeper]

well i never said that you are not a christian, but you have said that I have said it twice now.

What do you say I am then? You said, "You both hold to unchristian doctrine which is fine but if you then pass that off as Christianity then thats deception IMO."

I claim to be a Christian (Obviously) you suggest that I hold unchristian doctrine, thus you claim I am being deceptive and unchristian. You said it, NiceCupOfTea. You may not of directly said I am not a Christian, but you certainly implied as much.


GK

 

[NiceCupOfTea]

You said it, NiceCupOfTea. You may not of directly said I am not a Christian, but you certainly implied as much.

GK

if you say, and since you have said so three times now it must be true since u r a god after all

 

[Gatekeeper]

if you say, and since you have said so three times now it must be true since u r a god after all

Please, NiceCupOfTea --

Are we God? No! Are we divine? No! Are we great, mighty, powerful? Yes! Maybe you could address the issue instead of deeming Will and I to be deceitful and unchristian, eh? Since mockery has been your chosen voice, maybe you would like to redeem yourself and address the issue of us being gods.


I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High. But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes.


From a post in the We Are All G!ds. thread:


I think God wants us to realize "who" we are and our responsibilities as the dominant species. We are Gods creations, but in order for us to truly understand "who" we are, it is necessary that we realize just how powerful we are. In our hands is the power of life and death, thus God allows us to taste death, experience destruction, trial, tribulation, and suffering, so we might truly understand our "might" as mighty ones or "gods".

The power of life and death is in our hands. We are the mighty ones, the most dominant of God's creations on earth. He allowed us to fall, so we might rise again (As demonstrated by Jesus) unto more glory than you could possibly imagine. The end is not yet come, the eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.

The carnal man is the adversary to God, as the carnal man is incomplete, imperfect, and destructive. God in Gods entirety is perfect, and Jesus the perfect and complete manifestation (Revelation) of God on earth. This is "who" we become when we are reborn of the "Holy Spirit" (Anointed ones) which is God’s love and wisdom, and our "tree of life", through which we are made complete.

The tree of knowledge of good and evil was our awakening to our own destructive characteristics and power. In order to know "who" we are, it was necessary that we realize "what" we are capable of. We have the power of life, which comes by service to God and His love. We also have the power of death, which comes when we attempt to "rule" the earth.

To serve in heaven or to rule in hell is NOT a difficult decision if you truly think about it and take into account the "hell" we have effectively created on earth. Mighty one's (gods) we are, and even more mighty we become when we submit to God and His love.


What exactly are your contentions with the above thoughts NiceCupOfTea, and why the mockery?


GK

 

[NiceCupOfTea]

Please, NiceCupOfTea --

Are we God? No! Are we divine? No! Are we great, mighty, powerful? Yes! Maybe you could address the issue instead of deeming Will and I to be deceitful and unchristian, eh? Since mockery has been your chosen voice, maybe you would like to redeem yourself and address the issue of us being gods.


I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High. But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes.


From a post in the We Are All G!ds. thread:


I think God wants us to realize "who" we are and our responsibilities as the dominant species. We are Gods creations, but in order for us to truly understand "who" we are, it is necessary that we realize just how powerful we are. In our hands is the power of life and death, thus God allows us to taste death, experience destruction, trial, tribulation, and suffering, so we might truly understand our "might" as mighty ones or "gods".

The power of life and death is in our hands. We are the mighty ones, the most dominant of God's creations on earth. He allowed us to fall, so we might rise again (As demonstrated by Jesus) unto more glory than you could possibly imagine. The end is not yet come, the eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.

The carnal man is the adversary to God, as the carnal man is incomplete, imperfect, and destructive. God in Gods entirety is perfect, and Jesus the perfect and complete manifestation (Revelation) of God on earth. This is "who" we become when we are reborn of the "Holy Spirit" (Anointed ones) which is God’s love and wisdom, and our "tree of life", through which we are made complete.

The tree of knowledge of good and evil was our awakening to our own destructive characteristics and power. In order to know "who" we are, it was necessary that we realize "what" we are capable of. We have the power of life, which comes by service to God and His love. We also have the power of death, which comes when we attempt to "rule" the earth.

To serve in heaven or to rule in hell is NOT a difficult decision if you truly think about it and take into account the "hell" we have effectively created on earth. Mighty one's (gods) we are, and even more mighty we become when we submit to God and His love.


What exactly are your contentions with the above thoughts NiceCupOfTea, and why the mockery?


GK

its you who mock

you claim to be a god

that is mockery

you make a mockery of my faith.

you can create your own doctrines and theologies based on the the Bible but that does not make it Christianity, Christianity is quite clearly defined.

you keep telling me that you are an orange but I just see a banana

 

[Gatekeeper]

its you who mock

you claim to be a god

that is mockery

you make a mockery of my faith.

you can create your own doctrines and theologies based on the the Bible but that does not make it Christianity, Christianity is quite clearly defined.

you keep telling me that you are an orange but I just see a banana

That is what scripture states, NiceCupOfTea --

It is not mockery, but rather a statement of fact made in scripture -- Even Jesus alluded to us being gods. You deny this for some reason and claim I create my own doctrines. My views stem from scripture, but I'm sure my entire theology is not without error, just as your clearly defined dogma is not without error.

You see a banana because you believe yourself to be a banana - I see an orange because I know who "we" are and what we are capable of, either by serving self or by serving God. What is it about being a god that you so desperately reject?

You still haven't addressed my post, btw!


GK

 

[NiceCupOfTea]

That is what scripture states, NiceCupOfTea --

It is not mockery, but rather a statement of fact made in scripture -- Even Jesus alluded to us being gods. You deny this for some reason and claim I create my own doctrines. My views stem from scripture, but I'm sure my entire theology is not without error, just as your clearly defined dogma is not without error.

Christians are to be led by the Holy Spirit, not the Bible anyone can read the Bible as a Book a create all sorts of whacky theologies as you have done. Which is ok in itself but if you try and pass that off as Christianity then that is deception.

You see a banana because you believe yourself to be a banana - I see an orange because I know who "we" are and what we are capable of, either by serving self or by serving God. What is it about being a god that you so desperately reject?

its not Christianity thats all, I dont mind if you think you are a God or a Banana but if you start passing off that stuff as Christianity then I dont like that because its not true.

All things are possible with God, and we can do amazing things just like Jesus did but this comes from the anointing of the Holy Spirit, not from us being gods.

 

[Gatekeeper]

Christians are to be led by the Holy Spirit, not the Bible anyone can read the Bible as a Book a create all sorts of whacky theologies as you have done. Which is ok in itself but if you try and pass that off as Christianity then that is deception.

Wacky theology? It is a Christian concept, NiceCupOfTea -- YOU reject it, but that doesn't make it untrue or deception, not even a little bit.

its not Christianity thats all, I dont mind if you think you are a God or a Banana but if you start passing off that stuff as Christianity then I dont like that because its not true.

I never said I am God, I said we are gods -- Do you even read my posts? It is who we are, and yes it is true, even Jesus suggested as much.

All things are possible with God, and we can do amazing things just like Jesus did but this comes from the anointing of the Holy Spirit, not from us being gods.

"The carnal man is the adversary to God, as the carnal man is incomplete, imperfect, and destructive. God in Gods entirety is perfect, and Jesus the perfect and complete manifestation (Revelation) of God on earth.

This is "who" we become when we are reborn of the "Holy Spirit" (Anointed ones) which is God’s love and wisdom, and our "tree of life", through which we are made complete."

 

[NiceCupOfTea]

Wacky theology? It is a Christian concept, NiceCupOfTea -- YOU reject it, but that doesn't make it untrue or deception, not even a little bit.

but you have said it and it is true ?

I never said I am God, I said we are gods -- Do you even read my posts? It is who we are, and yes it is true, even Jesus suggested as much.

yes that would include you ? yes, are you a god ?

"The carnal man is the adversary to God, as the carnal man is incomplete, imperfect, and destructive. God in Gods entirety is perfect, and Jesus the perfect and complete manifestation (Revelation) of God on earth.

This is "who" we become when we are reborn of the "Holy Spirit" (Anointed ones) which is God’s love and wisdom, and our "tree of life", through which we are made complete."

if you say so. but it just sounds like your own made up theology to me, again nothing wrong with that as long as you aware what it is and dont try and deceive others ?