Satan and his fallen angels

Gatekeeper said:
So .... I've been thinking again! This time about my position on what makes one an adversary to God. What I once thought to be imperfections, has now turned into something much more sinister.

Scripture tells us Satan and his fallen angels were cast to the earth -- Does this suggest that Satan roams the earth as an individual and that his minions walk among mankind?

What if ... scripture suggests something completely different? Scripture tells us that we are but dust and ashes. We were created from the dust of the ground according to scripture. The serpent (Who represents Satan) was cursed to consume the dust of the ground for the rest of his days, so could it be that Satan (Our carnal desires?) was cursed to consume mankind who were made from the dust of the ground?

I think "Satan" is a metaphor for that part of man that in opposition to both us and God, the part of man that wishes to rule and control. We (Mankind) are the fallen ones, cast out of heaven (Eden/paradise) because we submitted to Satan (The adversary) In us.

Humans by and large are consumed by selfish ambition, which leads many to attempt to control others and the world we live in by force. Could Satan then simply be the part of mankind's nature that is disobedient to Gods will, that part of us that is in opposition to us, God, and Gods love?

Many have certainly become the servants of their carnal desires, where they attempt to rule over others and the world we live in. If Satan is in fact our carnal desires, this would in effect make carnal man servants of Satan, to whom many have pledged their allegiance, defying God and living in opposition to His love and will for us.

We are called gods "elohiym" (Or angels) in scripture for a reason, I believe this is so we might realize "who" we are, and what we need to do to make things right. Mankind is on the fast track to destruction unless we surrender ourselves to God and His love, forsaking that part in us that is in opposition to God (Our carnal nature) which I believe to be Satan (The adversary).


GK
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Then what is Michael, the Archangel?

The ArchAngel: Historical Resume - Index
 
... many religions... "keep something back" from the swine -- cakes are too good for pigs, after all... I agree with keeping the good stuff back until you're sure people won't screw it up.
 
Sam Albion said:
... many religions... "keep something back" from the swine -- cakes are too good for pigs, after all... I agree with keeping the good stuff back until you're sure people won't screw it up.
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Whether I agree with this or not is beside the point, but I do believe that this is where we are still today :p

OINK OINK LOL

Love the Grey
 
Satan represents the lie about gods kingdom. The devil represents emotions that are in opposition to gods emotions and the mind that goes along with it. If someone attacked your child and you in turn defended that child by attacking that person and you ended up killing them. Murder is wrong but is the emotions behind you defending your child based on love. They are based on the love of your child and defending them against harm. So even things that are considered wrong can sometimes have the right reasons behind them. This is what I call a gray area.
 
Actually any male angelic being always has el at the end of the name showing its male. Each male has a female counterpart. The male name is Lucifiel, not Lucifer.
 
donnann said:
Actually any male angelic being always has el at the end of the name showing its male. Each male has a female counterpart. The male name is Lucifiel, not Lucifer.
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YEESH! El is Hebrew for "God" and appears in a lot of Hebrew names, like Mi-kha-el "Who is like God?" compare Mi-kha-yah "Who is like YHWH?" variously rendered "Micah" or "Micaiah". It has nothing to do with gender: Jochebel and Jezebel are feminine examples.

Lucifer is LATIN for "Lightbearer"; you are interrupting it in the middle of the second root to throw in a word from another language, making "Lightb--el"
 
I for one believe humanity is ready for those pearls. There will always be those who will devour what is set before them, swine are known to devour anything and everything. Even so and although the swine will turn on you and attempt to destroy the pearls, isn't it worth it in the end?

Did Jesus withhold his pearls? He was certainly turned against due to his teachings, but if it were not for Jesus doing so, we would not have his ministry to teach us. Actually, we can thank his disciples for recording those prevalent years of his ministry. Sure, they were turned against too, but without them we would not have the new testament.

I think Jesus was simply warning us that when we share our pearls that some will trample them underfoot and attack us, not necessarily that we should withhold things that can be beneficial to others.

~GK~
 
The 'Pearls before swine' phrase reminds me of Jesus parable of the prodigal son, because the younger son is in a hurry to live on his own but ends up living with the pigs. I'm not sure if Jesus was connecting the two parables, but we learn in stages. I'm sure that the swine are a figure of speech as are the pearls, so its not literally pearls. The pearls are for anyone who appreciates them. I might think of it as swine becoming pearls so that its 'Swine before pearls'. I'm not thinking that people are swine at all, which is only figurative speech; but people at times have definitely trampled what could have been beautiful by moving too quickly. It think its because people are in a hurry and want to be experts without being amateurs first.
 
Dream said:
The 'Pearls before swine' phrase reminds me of Jesus parable of the prodigal son, because the younger son is in a hurry to live on his own but ends up living with the pigs. I'm not sure if Jesus was connecting the two parables, but we learn in stages. I'm sure that the swine are a figure of speech as are the pearls, so its not literally pearls. The pearls are for anyone who appreciates them. I might think of it as swine becoming pearls so that its 'Swine before pearls'. I'm not thinking that people are swine at all, which is only figurative speech; but people at times have definitely trampled what could have been beautiful by moving too quickly. It think its because people are in a hurry and want to be experts without being amateurs first.
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I think we are all amateurs when it comes to these things, Dream. But I reckon the pearls might be said to be things we treasure. We share our treasures, our special moments, and others trample on them at times. I can remember the day I accepted Jesus and decided I would follow him.


I immediately went to a relative I think the world of who is a Christadelphian, and shared my joy with him. Well, he wasn't impressed at all, nor did he offer even a smidgen of encouragement, but rather said, with a smirk on his face, "you're too emotional, it takes knowledge of the bible and understanding to follow Jesus".


My treasure had been trampled on, the joy I felt gone, my resolve to follow vanished. People can be so thoughtless not even knowing how their words affect others, particularly when they are so important to us. I'm not calling anyone a swine, but this particular relative certainly played the role at least once.
 
Dream said:
The 'Pearls before swine' phrase reminds me of Jesus parable of the prodigal son, because the younger son is in a hurry to live on his own but ends up living with the pigs. I'm not sure if Jesus was connecting the two parables, but we learn in stages. I'm sure that the swine are a figure of speech as are the pearls, so its not literally pearls.
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"Pearls" also are used in parable: For the Kingdom of Heaven is like a man who saw a pearl of great price for sale, and went and sold everything he had, that he might buy that pearl.
 
This is a pretty passage:

Job 28
9 "Man puts his hand to the flinty rock, and overturns mountains by the roots.
10 He cuts out channels in the rocks, and his eye sees every precious thing.
11 He binds up the streams so that they do not trickle, and the thing that is hid he brings forth to light.
12 "But where shall wisdom be found? And where is the place of understanding?
13 Man does not know the way to it, and it is not found in the land of the living.

18 ... the price of wisdom is above pearls.
 
Dream said:
This is a pretty passage:

Job 28
9 "Man puts his hand to the flinty rock, and overturns mountains by the roots.
10 He cuts out channels in the rocks, and his eye sees every precious thing.
11 He binds up the streams so that they do not trickle, and the thing that is hid he brings forth to light.
12 "But where shall wisdom be found? And where is the place of understanding?
13 Man does not know the way to it, and it is not found in the land of the living.

18 ... the price of wisdom is above pearls.
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Perhaps the wisdom spoken of above is found in the heart as opposed to being found in the world (Conventional 'worldly' wisdom vs. spiritual 'heavenly' Wisdom). Wisdom can be such an elusive thing for many of us, but I truly believe that it cries out to us with such simplicity that we overlook her. Many of us are so busy feeding on the natural that we neglect the spiritual.


The following are passages from Proverbs:


"Now therefore hearken unto me, O ye children: for blessed are they that keep my ways. Hear instruction, and be wise, and refuse it not. Blessed is the man that heareth me, watching daily at my gates, waiting at the posts of my doors. For whoso findeth me findeth life, and shall obtain favour of the LORD.
________

Wisdom cries aloud in the street, in the markets she raises her voice; at the head of the noisy streets she cries out; at the entrance of the city gates she speaks:


"How long, O simple ones, will you love being simple? How long will scoffers delight in their scoffing and fools hate knowledge? If you turn at my reproof, behold, I will pour out my spirit to you; I will make my words known to you."


I think that perhaps spiritual Wisdom has a great deal to do with "love".
 
Gatekeeper said:
Perhaps the wisdom spoken of above is found in the heart as opposed to being found in the world (Conventional 'worldly' wisdom vs. spiritual 'heavenly' Wisdom). Wisdom can be such an elusive thing for many of us, but I truly believe that it cries out to us with such simplicity that we overlook her. Many of us are so busy feeding on the natural that we neglect the spiritual.


The following are passages from Proverbs:


"Now therefore hearken unto me, O ye children: for blessed are they that keep my ways. Hear instruction, and be wise, and refuse it not. Blessed is the man that heareth me, watching daily at my gates, waiting at the posts of my doors. For whoso findeth me findeth life, and shall obtain favour of the LORD.
________

Wisdom cries aloud in the street, in the markets she raises her voice; at the head of the noisy streets she cries out; at the entrance of the city gates she speaks:


"How long, O simple ones, will you love being simple? How long will scoffers delight in their scoffing and fools hate knowledge? If you turn at my reproof, behold, I will pour out my spirit to you; I will make my words known to you."


I think that perhaps spiritual Wisdom has a great deal to do with "love".
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This may seem obsurd to some but I believe that salvation also involves the fallen angels and that the parable about the lost sheep pertains.
 
donnann said:
This may seem obsurd to some but I believe that salvation also involves the fallen angels and that the parable about the lost sheep pertains.
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Funny, I'm one who believes that salvation has everything to do with the fallen angels (Elohim). It's who WE are according to my view. We fell from Gods grace and lost heaven on earth, but are also able to rise again when we embrace and live through the Spirit of life, which is Love.
 
Gatekeeper said:
Funny, I'm one who believes that salvation has everything to do with the fallen angels (Elohim). It's who WE are according to my view. We fell from Gods grace and lost heaven on earth, but are also able to rise again when we embrace and live through the Spirit of life, which is Love.
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I somewhat agree , men will be like gods and women like goddesses. I just dont like it when people confuse the two thinking that they are bigger than they really are. If you saw a divine being I mean a literal Elohim in his true condition he is HUGE . HE COULD literally put on foot on the land and one on the sea.
 
donnann said:
I somewhat agree , men will be like gods and women like goddesses. I just dont like it when people confuse the two thinking that they are bigger than they really are. If you saw a divine being I mean a literal Elohim in his true condition he is HUGE . HE COULD literally put on foot on the land and one on the sea.
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I think we ARE elohim not that we will be like them. As I stated prior, I think it's who WE are, the fallen elohim (Angels) from heaven, cast out of paradise. I can see divinity in most everyone, only it is often hidden by our carnal attributes .... By the adversary that exists within each of us (Satan).
 
Gatekeeper said:
I think we ARE elohim not that we will be like them. As I stated prior, I think it's who WE are, the fallen elohim (Angels) from heaven, cast out of paradise. I can see divinity in most everyone, only it is often hidden by our carnal attributes .... By the adversary that exists within each of us (Satan).
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Fallen angels and fallen man are two different beings but I do believe in salvation of fallen angels just like I do fallen man. So the fallen angels sorta human likenesses are associated with them but are not them.
 
donnann said:
Fallen angels and fallen man are two different beings but I do believe in salvation of fallen angels just like I do fallen man. So the fallen angels sorta human likenesses are associated with them but are not them.
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this is the two fold purpose of an incarnated being, being from prehuman divine and incarnated into the human body.
 
donnann said:
Fallen angels and fallen man are two different beings but I do believe in salvation of fallen angels just like I do fallen man. So the fallen angels sorta human likenesses are associated with them but are not them.
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What makes you think this? We are literally called elohim in scripture. What makes you think that we are a different breed than angels? The only difference between unfallen angels and us is that we have inherited death. But, for those who are alive in Christ death has no sting, nor victory. Again, this is simply my view, donnann. You don't have to believe it, bro. :)
 
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