Fire Water Air Earth Ether. Everything in the environment to include plants and animals everything comes from the highest life in that environment encoded withing the two: one male and one female even though two are three and also one as well. So as you can probably understand where I am going with this, yes even elements are male and female.
Is Christianity anti-women?
- Thread starter Waymarker
- Start date
Fire Water Air Earth Ether. Everything in the environment to include plants and animals everything comes from the highest life in that environment encoded withing the two: one male and one female even though two are three and also one as well. So as you can probably understand where I am going with this, yes even elements are male and female.
radarmark
Quaker-in-the-Making
Donnann. That is not the normal use of the term "element". Live in the past, believe myths as true. Fine. Just realize that here I will always challenge you to face up to the fact that your belief system (coherent, consistent as it is) just is not factually (in terms of the use of the English) true.
Panta Rhei! (Everything Flows!)
Panta Rhei! (Everything Flows!)
The Elements of Life
Elements make up everything around us including the trees of a forest, your pets, and even YOU!
If you looked at living things with a microscope, you would see that all life is made up of small compartments called cells. Very small life forms, such as bacteria, have only one cell, while large animals have millions. No matter what type of living thing, the cells of every creature are made of atoms of different elements.
radarmark
Quaker-in-the-Making
Nope, scientifically and factually wrong if by elements you mean "air, water, fire, and earth" or some other primative notion.
Actually scientifically what I posted is correct. As a person the fifth element would be like in the movie a female with O blood.
H
Hermes
Guest
Yes, in my opinion, the Western Tradition (as well as Islam) are anti women. In the Christian tradition all stems from the masculine and feminine principle's (spirit and matter) and they(church-fathers) falsely declaring one (the spirit) better than the other (the matter). This is the root of the masculine and feminine in-equilibrium, which by default must be balanced out before mankind can move forward spiritually. Matter(the feminine principle is no less that its opposite).
Dream
Well-Known Member
I think I understand equality is not equilibrium, but equilibrium is whatever condition a system tends to come to rest at. If I understand you correctly, you are speaking of equality as if it ought to be the equilibrium condition between men and women. It has not been the equilibrium situation, either in churches or in secular society throughout history . There is a much larger reason for the inequality which goes beyond churches. It is not men only who discriminate against women, but women do it to themselves as well! Inequality seems to have been the norm throughout recorded history (except where women dominated instead of men, but this is still not equality) . I'm asking are these (what you call) western traditions more anti women than society in general?Hermes said:
Thanks for that information. I do not understand the teaching surrounding masculine-feminine, but doesn't the church need a tradition that relates to the situation that people actually live with? If it doesn't match the way things work, it might become irrelevant.
This is how the legal system works where I live: Women and men are suggested to be equal, but they are treated differently under the law. Supposedly this is to remedy inequality, but how can you create equality with more inequality? The laws contradict themselves in the realm of ideals by insisting equality is truth but try to create equality in fact. Divorce law is an example. Typically one sex must be protected more than the other, thus the law enshrines inequality as the tool to banish inequality. Perhaps the traditions you speak of are trying to do the same.
seattlegal
Mercuræn Buddhist
Male-female is a physical dichotomy. See Galatians 3:26-29
26 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. 27 For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.
Wouldn't clinging to this dichotomy be clinging to the physical?
H
Hermes
Guest
The meaning of these two words should not be confined exclusively to the biological plane, defining the individual's sexual characteristics, but should also be understood at a higher level and in a wider context. Thus the SOUL is a combination of male (nefesh) and female (chajah) principles which give the living soul its full meaning.
According to the Zohar, the soul's male and female elements derive from the cosmos. The male principle radiates the life force, but this principle of life is subject to death; the female bears life, it animates. In this context Eve, who proceeded Adam, signifies that the spiritual is beyond the vital element. Adam was pre-existent to Eve and the vital is earlier than the spiritual element. A similar theme is picked up in the myth of Athene springing from the brain of Zeus. In this respect, the Zohar uses the example of the candle with its elements of light and darkness signifying male and female.
http://www.meralog.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=4
According to the Zohar, the soul's male and female elements derive from the cosmos. The male principle radiates the life force, but this principle of life is subject to death; the female bears life, it animates. In this context Eve, who proceeded Adam, signifies that the spiritual is beyond the vital element. Adam was pre-existent to Eve and the vital is earlier than the spiritual element. A similar theme is picked up in the myth of Athene springing from the brain of Zeus. In this respect, the Zohar uses the example of the candle with its elements of light and darkness signifying male and female.
http://www.meralog.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=4
Dream
Well-Known Member
I get that. What does a cosmological dichotomy have to do with man vs. woman?Seattlegal said:Wouldn't clinging to this dichotomy be clinging to the physical?
I've heard of the Zohar but not read it. It would be unfair to say that I understand the Zohar; but I'm trying to understand how this makes all of western tradition anti-women. Are you saying that they unfairly overlay male and female with a cosmological dichotomy between the physical and the spiritual? /or/ Are you agreeing that males and females yes-do represent the physical and spiritual, but believe that the spiritual is not superior to the physical (contrary to the what the traditions say about it)? Thanks.Hermes said:
radarmark
Quaker-in-the-Making
Dream,
It is all Western Tradition, not just religious/spiritual and a great deal of the Tradions of the Rest of the World. Why? My guess would be that (usually) men can individually physically overcome a woman. And all men see women (in some sense, more or less) as divine harlots.
Our hormones make us agressive, theirs make them bond. 'Tis a leftover from our ancestors (who skipped the Bonobo sexual revolution). The true equality of the sexes is one of the hallmarks of a group (or culture) that is "advanced" or "civilized".
Do not yell at me, for this includes many indigenous peoples to the hunter-gatherer level World wide. And not too many (present day) citizens of the United States (or Russia or England or India or Indonesia .....).
It is especially endenic to the "Native Born Churches" developed here in the U.S. That should be no surprize for they gave us slavery and Jim Crow and the genocide of Natives as well.
It is all Western Tradition, not just religious/spiritual and a great deal of the Tradions of the Rest of the World. Why? My guess would be that (usually) men can individually physically overcome a woman. And all men see women (in some sense, more or less) as divine harlots.
Our hormones make us agressive, theirs make them bond. 'Tis a leftover from our ancestors (who skipped the Bonobo sexual revolution). The true equality of the sexes is one of the hallmarks of a group (or culture) that is "advanced" or "civilized".
Do not yell at me, for this includes many indigenous peoples to the hunter-gatherer level World wide. And not too many (present day) citizens of the United States (or Russia or England or India or Indonesia .....).
It is especially endenic to the "Native Born Churches" developed here in the U.S. That should be no surprize for they gave us slavery and Jim Crow and the genocide of Natives as well.
Dream
Well-Known Member
It also has to do with the way women see men and themselves. I think your definition of civilized works.
Yes the native born churches started over culturally at some point. There have been too many war deaths, too much reinvention of culture, too much physical isolation and too little time. For many pioneers life consisted mostly of work with very little time for studying. I think all of the wars have been a big part of keeping the generations from accumulating cultural experiences but also the extremely hard work required simply to keep alive.
radarmark
Quaker-in-the-Making
Your comment about war (peace witnessing is a Quaker trait) is quite appropriate. Males (and now females) spend too much bloody time at this nasty business.
The short answer is no.
How can it be? The advent of Christianity was announced to a woman before it was to man. The Resurrection was made known to a woman before it was to a man.
What is evident, in Christianity as in any tradition, is that cultural practice soon re-asserts itself under the guise of doctrine.
God bless,
Thomas
How can it be? The advent of Christianity was announced to a woman before it was to man. The Resurrection was made known to a woman before it was to a man.
What is evident, in Christianity as in any tradition, is that cultural practice soon re-asserts itself under the guise of doctrine.
God bless,
Thomas
seattlegal
Mercuræn Buddhist
Say it isn't so! Does this mean I'll have to stay in the kitchen and cook all the time now?
Dream
Well-Known Member
If the pots aren't kept continuously on the hearth, ants might get into them. That is only one of the many reasons why you must remain in the kitchen. I'm sure there are many other equally valid reasons.Say it isn't so! Does this mean I'll have to stay in the kitchen and cook all the time now?
seattlegal
Mercuræn Buddhist
Cooking!If the pots aren't kept continuously on the hearth, ants might get into them. That is only one of the many reasons why you must remain in the kitchen. I'm sure there are many other equally valid reasons.
http://www.interfaith.org/forum/islamic-cleric-bans-women-from-14885.html#post259423
Nick the Pilot
Well-Known Member
In Genesis, God puts a curse on all women. Would refusing to 'cling to this dichotomy' make the curse go away?
L
Lunitik
Guest
You have conceptualized it as a curse, but is it really so?
Eve has come from Adams rib or heart - depending on your definition of 'eve' - and not from the dirt. She is more purified than the man, the result of another evolution after man. She has also been more open to the serpent - always a sign of wisdom in the ancient traditions, and even for Jesus - and thus questioned the lack of justification from God - she thus ate the fruit from the tree of knowledge. We see this advancement of the female today in psychiatrists evidence that the girl matures around 3 years faster than the male.
Now she goes and tells Adam to do the same, but after doing so, he is the one that is filled with guilt and says he has feared the wrath of God for disobedience. To this day, it is very easy for a man to join the army or police force and do his duty without questioning anything. He will actually feel worse if he hasn't obeyed than in what the instruction has caused him to do. He is far more simple minded than the woman, yet he has become far more strong. This has been necessary because his basic instinct is to compete, the woman needn't be so strong because she simply has to wait and allow the winner. This has caused a complex in the man, he believes himself superior to the woman based on this fact alone. Now we see all types of stupidity in our treatment of women throughout the world, we can force them to wear attire that hides them from us, we can keep her in the house, all manner of things. It is really our impotency to control our desire that has caused this though, it is our weaknesses that causes us to need to prove our strength - it looks paradoxical but non-the-less is the case.
This too is the way of the inner world, at first you will attack, you will try to rape God into presenting himself to you, or you will be aggressive in your insistence of God being a reality. Then eventually, when you see the futility of this, you become receptive, essentially female in your way, you simply wait and allow, inviting but not chasing, then there is a possibility.
People should not take these things at face value, that is how stupidity comes in.