Ask a Spiritual Physicist

Now for something completely different:

Are the North-South Axis of All Galaxies parallel to eachother?

Is the North Star actually establish the "North" direction of the cosmos?

I am a bit confused about the rendering of the Spiral grapfic of what appears to be a standard galaxy shape.

I have always thought of the Milkway as that belt of concentrated stars seen rising above and falling below the eqinox (northern hemisphere vs southern).
 
Now for something completely different:

Are the North-South Axis of All Galaxies parallel to eachother?

Is the North Star actually establish the "North" direction of the cosmos?

I am a bit confused about the rendering of the Spiral grapfic of what appears to be a standard galaxy shape.

I have always thought of the Milkway as that belt of concentrated stars seen rising above and falling below the eqinox (northern hemisphere vs southern) like a sine wave shape.

What is that Sine wave shape cluster called?:

chart-of-the-heavens-spaceshots.jpg


Reference this "navigational star chart" graphic: http://img.docstoccdn.com/thumb/orig/10298390.png

http://www.philaprintshop.com/images/burrittviii.jpg


Herschel 400 Catalogue - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
The "Milky Way Galaxy" is a picture of what the galaxy we are in looks like from far off. Let "Milky Way" (without the Galaxy) stand for that stream of stars we see in the night sky.

Point 1: the Milky Way Galaxy is a spiral galaxy. The co-ordinate system on the map (if this is what you are talking about) is based on the location of Earth (as you can see pretty far out from the central cluster) and the degree of declination (looking around the solar system in the plane of the Galaxy that is perpendicular to the axis. That is, if the Milky Way Galaxy is looked at like a flat disk (like a plate), surpressing how far above or below the plane of the Galaxy we are and the Galactic axis is at the center of the plate and perpendicular both up and down.

Point 2: Yes, that is how we see the Milky Way in terms of what our eyes or telescopes percieve. However, that is a kind of optical illusion, if we were many thousands of light years away it would look like the picture I posted (of the "Milky Way Galaxy" as we can decompose the "Milky Way" into its real form).

Point 3: what you posted is the "Milky Way" as seen from earth. What I posted was the "Milky Way Galaxy" as seen from several hundred (or thousand) light years outside of it, looking on it as one would a plate.
 
what you posted is the "Milky Way" as seen from earth.

What I posted was the "Milky Way Galaxy" as seen from several hundred (or thousand) light years outside of it, looking on it as one would a plate.

So your picture is looking at it from above or below???

And my picture is looking at it from the side???

But, as I had asked earlier, regarding a "Common North" ---the Navigation chart shows a quite symetrical shap & an equal division the rising portion and the falling portion ---above & below the eqinox (northern hemisphere vs southern) like a sine wave shape.

That regular symetry equally divides a sine wave ---that you inform me is the Milkway seen sideways [or actually from inside looking outward].

The symetry lends itself to having a Top, sides and a bottom ---all along a reference base line.

It would seem IMO that there are definitive cardinal points ---cardinal points that evenly divide the milkway's belt with percision. No?
 
I found this:

iSGTW Feature - A virtual universe | iSGTW


“We now have an inventory of the distribution and thermodynamic state of the baryonic matter in the universe and its heavy element content. This will serve to guide astronomical searches for the currently missing bulk of the mass in the Universe,” explains Frenk.

In spite of this advance, the problem of galaxy formation remains largely unsolved. “Nobody in the world has yet succeeded in producing a realistic spiral galaxy like the Milky Way in a computer. We do not yet know if the reason for this is our poor understanding of the physics of galaxy formation or if our cosmological model is somehow incomplete.

For example, the cosmological model that has been so successfully explored in the Millennium simulation assumes a particular kind of dark matter, the so-called cold dark matter.

Since the particles that would make up this cold dark matter have not yet been discovered in the laboratory, we cannot be sure that our assumptions are correct.

Petaflop machines will simultaneously allow us to model the physics of galaxy formation with increasing realism and to explore alternative assumptions for the cosmological model, including the nature of the dark matter. Ultimately, we would like to simulate a representative region of the Universe with full gas physics – in short to create a virtual universe,” concludes Frenk.
 
So your picture is looking at it from above or below???

Either, what it is is a depiction of the Milky Way Galaxy with no declination. If you look at the Galaxy as if it were a plate it would have some "thickness", the thickness is measured (relatiove to Earth) in terms of a declination angle answering the question is it above or below the plane formed by the equator in the sky. In my picture all the stars are "squished" into a thin sheet.

And my picture is looking at it from the side???

No, your picture is looking at it from inside. If you locate the sun in my picture, yours is what you see from there.


But, as I had asked earlier, regarding a "Common North" ---the Navigation chart shows a quite symetrical shap & an equal division the rising portion and the falling portion ---above & below the eqinox (northern hemisphere vs southern) like a sine wave shape.

The reason is how the co-ordinates are defined (look up declination), your chart is standard celestial chart defined as what you see in the sky from Earth. Mine is what you would see if you were outside the Milky Way Galaxy looking back at it (like we see the Andromeda Galaxy). The sine wave appearance is due to the fact that we are not in the Galactic Plane of the Milky Way, but a little above or below it.

That regular symetry equally divides a sine wave ---that you inform me is the Milkway seen sideways [or actually from inside looking outward].

Yep. Imagine holding a hula hoop at eye level so you are in the middle of the loop. Now tip it one way or another... the image is sinusoidal and symmetric.


The symetry lends itself to having a Top, sides and a bottom ---all along a reference base line.

Yep. "Top" on your map is the North Pole. On my map "Top" would be directly above the barred lens directly below the sun.

It would seem IMO that there are definitive cardinal points ---cardinal points that evenly divide the milkway's belt with percision. No?

From where we are, yes (as long as you do not consider the density of stars). The densest part of the Milky Way (what you see in the sky, what is on your map) is centered in the constellation Sagittarius (about 90 degrees along the bottom and 30 degrees south). The lightest is directly opposite (270 degrees by 30 degrees north). On my map (of the Milky Way Galaxy) zero degrees (going from sun directly downwards) is the same view (from way far away) as your map looking at 90 by 30 north) and my 180 degrees is equivalent to your 270 by 30.

The cardinal points splitting up the figure are a function of how astronomy maps things. If the Galactic Plane were made the reference, the Milky Way would be at zero degrees declination and "north" would not poinht to Polaris. Take up the huls hoop again, imagine you are under a street lamp (representing Polaris). Hold the hula hoop at eye level. This is what you would see if the Earth's equator was aligned with the galactic plane (it ain't). Now tilt up the part in your right hand by 30 degrees and tilt down the part in your left 30 degrees. This is the "offset" of the Earth's equator to the galactic plane, and you see your sinusoidal figure. Now tilt your head so the hula hoop is "level" for your eyes..... the streetlamp is no longer directly overheadm, right? That is what you would see if your map were made to be co-planar with mine.

This is bloody hard to expalin.
 
"Nobody in the world has yet succeeded in producing a realistic spiral galaxy like the Milky Way in a computer".

What they are referring to is we do not yet know enough about the formation of Galaxies to map out or simulate their evolution from a bunch of (primarily) hydrogen and helium atoms to something that looks like the Adromeda Galaxy. They are not saying we cannot map out (1) what the Milky Way looks like or (2) how Galaxies (once they are formed) evolved.

See, at the moment of the Big Bang there is nothing but a bunch of quarks (little pieces of matter) and electrons or perhaps a bunch of little strings (if string theory is correct). How those quarks and electrons (or stings) turn into atoms we can pretty much replicate: the cloud of stuff cools and the strong, weak, and electro-magnetic force are "switched on" and the stuff clumps into protons and neutrons and electrons and from there into atoms.

What we do not know is why the atoms, in turn, clump together into stars and why those stars clump into galaxies. Very "complex" and very "chaoltic" system.
 
In Whitehead's Philosophy of Organism a single thing (an actual event) has a time duration which is indivisible. However, the actual event arises from a preceeding event and flows into a succeeding one. So it can handle your concern if one takes time as the axis across many events (then there will be no division).
Like time in relativity theory or balck-hole theory (Schwartzschild time) there are two streams, one in the event and one eternal... does that make sense?
Here's my speculation:

The web is probabilistic.

Also, past, present and future in the web are not distinguishable and therefore time is not distinguishable into past, present and future. The web is therefore structural rather than temporal.

Consequence of the above is that in the web, if one talks about entropy, it has to be zero overall. So if there is positive entropy in the web, it must be offset by negative entropy "somewhere". (Not sure if any talk about location makes sense in the web.)

Time "flows" in the veil, but time is "static" in the web, or if not static, at least zero overall.

And another speculation: what is information in the veil is knowledge in the web as in the web, information and awareness are not separate.
 
This is what you ould see if the Earth's equator was aligned with the galactic plane (it ain't).

Now tilt up the part in your right hand by 30 degrees and tilt down the part in your left 30 degrees.

This is the "offset" of the Earth's equator to the galactic plane, and you see your sinusoidal figure.

Now tilt your head so the hula hoop is "level" for your eyes..... the streetlamp is no longer directly overheadm, right?
This is bloody hard to expalin.

I am reminded of the look of a "Gyroscope".
gyroscope_diagram.jpg


Or, how the pistons of an engine move in directions that are obtuse to the locomotion of the motor-car.

And, how the top of a wheel spins backwards simultaneously as the bottom of a wheel spins forward.

BTW, is it imposible to create a working gyroscope without an actual physical gyroscope, ie a digital version? I wouldn't think so.

I guess too the same could be said of a themometer.

But not for a Doctors' diagnosis ---which one day could be totally digital and codified and sold as an app for and Ipad. Just a speculation.
 
BINGO! The earth's equator is offest from the Galactic Plane in just the same manner as a gyroscope's equator is offset from the horizontal (in the figure). Now just try to imagine translating what a real tiny radar sees from the middle of the gyroscope (my head still pointing towards the topp of the gyroscope) into what he would see if he was upright (feet on the ground). Punny.
 
So may I surmise that there is a top & bottom side, a left & right, a front and rear, an inside and outside ----for all people, places & things ---as an absolute truth of existence?

:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
Again, I am asking about the symetry shown in the navigation chart:

The tilted plane of the Galaxy is 50% above & 50% below the earths location ---with earth's POV more or less in the center of the tilted Hula-hoop shape of the Galaxy.

Since 'all the planets of our solar system share the same common north (is this correct?) even when we know of the earth's own tilt-of-axsis' ---the Galaxy's North direction (or possibly it's south) ---the earth has an "alignment" with the macrocosm that it is situated in. No? It wouild seem so, no?
 
Yes, but they are all relative (they depend on the co-ordinate system).

Yes, the earth's equator can be used to split the Milky Way into symmetic segments. The other planets do not share either a plane of rotation abouyt the sun (see angle of inclination) or a tilit on their axis to that angle (see inclination to invariable plane).

The Earth's "north" is not the same direction as any other planet's "north", nor are the "north's of any of these the same as the Sun's "north" nor are any od thes the same as the Milky Way Galaxy's "north".
 
Yes, but they are all relative (they depend on the co-ordinate system).

Yes, the earth's equator can be used to split the Milky Way into symmetic segments. The other planets do not share either a plane of rotation abouyt the sun (see angle of inclination) or a tilit on their axis to that angle (see inclination to invariable plane).

The Earth's "north" is not the same direction as any other planet's "north", nor are the "north's of any of these the same as the Sun's "north" nor are any od thes the same as the Milky Way Galaxy's "north".

Even life on other planets were created by the Creator(s) however creator(s) really are angelic beings. GOD even has wings.
 
BINGO! The earth's equator is offest from the Galactic Plane in just the same manner as a gyroscope's equator is offset from the horizontal (in the figure). Now just try to imagine translating what a real tiny radar sees from the middle of the gyroscope (my head still pointing towards the topp of the gyroscope) into what he would see if he was upright (feet on the ground). Punny.


Things are horrible here I really just want to go back home and I want my children to be safe .
 
Yes, but they are all relative (they depend on the co-ordinate system).

We then can agree with "Relative" as in "related" --?

Yes, the earth's equator can be used to split the Milky Way into symmetic segments.

That is indeed what is precieved on the chart I posted above.

The other planets do not share:

neither a plane of rotation about the sun

nor a tilit on their axis to that angle.

Similar to all the moving parts of a train engine
--and similar to how a First-class passenger who cares not-a-fig about how to grease the gears or pistons, as long as the train arrives on time.

The Earth's "north" is not the same direction as any other planet's "north",

a] nor are the "north's of any of these planets:
the same as the Sun's "north"

b] nor are any of these the same as the Milky Way Galaxy's "north".

Your statements only cause me more curiosity.

a] Our solar systems' planets from Mars to Pluto are orbiting like an atom's electrons?
stock-vector-atom-with-electron-orbits-8082424.jpg


. . . versus my school days text book charts such as this, like saturn' rings:
ss-rotation.jpg


b] nor are any of these the same as the Milky Way Galaxy's "north" ---but what does science know about "North-side (or any side) of the Milkway"? What would indicate a fixed point beyond our POV?

When EMF propells itself it transpires a mathmatical course:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromagnetic_field
An electromagnetic field (also EMF or EM field) is a physical field produced by moving electrically charged objects. It affects the behavior of charged objects in the vicinity of the field.

The electromagnetic field extends indefinitely throughout space and describes the electromagnetic interaction. It is one of the four fundamental forces of nature (the others are gravitation, the weak interaction, and the strong interaction).

The field can be viewed as the combination of an electric field and a magnetic field. The electric field is produced by stationary charges, and the magnetic field by moving charges (currents); these two are often described as the sources of the field.

The way in which charges and currents interact with the electromagnetic field is described by Maxwell's equations and the Lorentz force law.

From a classical perspective, the electromagnetic field can be regarded as a smooth, continuous field, propagated in a wavelike manner; whereas from the perspective of quantum field theory, the field is seen as quantized, being composed of individual particles.

This elementary diagram of EMF shows a very geometrical relation to ther mutual existence and construct:

ww_emf.jpg
 
Okay, if you do go and look up "angle of inclination" you will find that the planets are not co-planar in their orbits. But they are not as widly separated as "electrons in an atom" (wnich is actually a very bad analogy, we only have clouds of possibilities, not actual orbits in an atom).

The earth is tilted about 24 degrees, the Sun 7 degrees, Mercury about 280 degrees. There just is no correlation between where "North" is on each planet and any other planet. When I said "relative" I was speaking of measuring everything in relation to the planet's equator. If you measure North that way, all Norths are North. If you back out and look at things like they are in your picture on last post, then the "North" of each planet point in wildly different dierctions.

In Galactic terms, the equator is the plane of the galaxy and the N-S axis would be at the center of mass of the galaxy (roughly in the lens somewhere) and be perpendicular to the equator. It does not matter which way is N or S, the axis points in, again, a wildly different direction from the axes of the Sun and the Planets.

There is no correlation between what is North in (1) galaxies in general, (2) the Milky Way Galaxy ande any pother Galaxy, (3) the Milky Way Galaxy and the Sun and planets, (4) the Sun and any planet, and (5) any planet and Earth.
 
Radar, would you like to ramble about time for a while? For me it is nothing, it is a measurement of nothing. But I know it is something in other philosophies, but I don't understand what. Feel free to post links, but I would much prefer to hear your thoughts.
 
ACOT, time is one of my favorite topics. My approach is very scientific and philosophical (insofar as the philosophy is part of the scientific debate). But it starts with Whitehead. Do not a have more than an introductory philosophical list of Eastern sources (they fit into Whitehead quite well) but I can work on that if you want.;)

General--the wikis are easy, lucas is best into to time in philosophy (from my point of view), exploringtime is fun!
Time - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Arrow of time - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
A Century of Time
Exploring Time

Whitehead--the firsthree are general "Process Philosophy" intros, next two are from old physics mentor of mine (stapp), next two are why Eastern mind meets Whiteheadean mind, last two are pretty complex (more scientific) papers
http://www.ctr4process.org/publications/Articles/LSI05/Griffin-QuantumLecturefinal.pdf
Whitehead and Newton on Space and Time Structure
Bell’s Theorem and Stapp’s Revised View of Space-Time
http://www-physics.lbl.gov/~stapp/WQO.pdf
Whiteheadian process and quantum theory of mind
http://enlight.lib.ntu.edu.tw/FULLTEXT/JR-PHIL/phil176648.2.chang.pdf
http://enlight.lib.ntu.edu.tw/FULLTEXT/JR-AN/an147309.pdf
https://whiteheadresearch.org/occas...aphysics/papers/KloseJ-TimeAndTemporality.pdf
http://fas-philosophy.rutgers.edu/zimmerman/Persistence and Presentis.pdf

Scientific--first two present the basic arguement an "Einsteinian Block Universe" vs an "Evolving Universe", the next three are general scientific approaches and last two are borderline physics/philosophy
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eternalism_(philosophy_of_time)
Reality and Time
http://arxiv.org/PS_cache/hep-th/pdf/9506/9506171v2.pdf
Chronon - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Seven things you need to know about time - physics-math - 16 February 2009 - New Scientist
Being and Becoming in Modern Physics (Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy)
The Hole Argument (Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy)

Philosophical All four general and easy reads
Philosophy of space and time - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Time[Internet Encyclopedia of Philosophy]
Time (Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy)
The Experience and Perception of Time (Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy)

My personal belief is that time exists (not like Einstein's Block Universe) and is evelving (not a presentist). However, I believe that Plank Time or Chrons (originated by another old prof, DR Finkelstein... do not try to read his stuff, his speciality is "quantum logic") or Whitehead's "actual events" make time granular. I believe time is more like how we experience it (slower, faster, etc as it passes) then how science treats it. The closest Eastern relation is to Taoism or the Sixth Zen (Chinese) Patriach. There are scools of Hinduism and Buddhism that see it much the same way.

Pax et amore omnia vincunt:D
 
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