Ask a Spiritual Physicist

Radar - drawing from your background in physics, what do you think Einstein meant by these quotes on time:


"People like us, who believe in physics, know that the distinction between past, present, and future is only a stubbornly persistent illusion."
- Albert Einstein

and

"The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once."
- Albert Einstein
 
Einstein's biggest mistake (IMHO). Look up "Block Universe" or "Eternalism". It was his idea that the time-space continuum meant that we travel through time like we travel in space... literally it is all pre-existent and determined.

He just could never get over quantum indetermanancy do he constructed this idea to disprove quantum at the meta-level. And he really was a Newtonian... causal determination had to remain once universal time wsa destroyed.

There are a lot of (80% of physicists) who agree with him on this directly or by believing in the "many-worlds" or "many-minds" or "many-histories" theories of quantum mechanics.

I use Ockam's rule. If the universe is really any of these, there is something like 10 to the 1000 decisions G!d or the universe has made per second. Seems a little much compared the the simple assumption of free will and the standard Copenhagen Interpretation (see Henry Stapp).

Brilliant mind, but not all knowing.

Pax et amore omnia vincumt
 
Gravitaional pull forms a sphere and/or a disk-like formation ---that revolves around it's own absolute central core.

Same for atoms.

Same for planets.

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What if the inverse of "Extensively Complicated Construct"
there is simply "Conscious Being"?

What if the mystery of life is simply what it purports to be; a simply proposition and nothing more to the formula?

What if all science, in modern times, is a complicated false paradym leading to hardships for all nations; and that it has been like this for generations, especially made much much much worse during the 20th century [except for those presently were born with some fleeting fortunate-karma], and it will increase with each passing millenium?
 
Yep, except in the atom it is the electro-weak force and in the nucleaus the strong force (and these are "probability maps of location" not really the l0ocation).

Yep, What if the inverse of "Extensively Complicated Construct" vs "Conscious Being" is pretty much the motto of Amit Goswami, who is a pure idealist monist and not too shappy a physicist. It is possible this is one way to go.

The mystery of life could be a simple proposition... I do not know it. I only know things I experience (mental as well as physical).

While there are drawbacks to science (nuclear bombs), I believe that they are primarily misuses of science, very parallel to our misuse of wealth. But without science and wealth we would be stuck in the dark ages (at least as far as technology and economic systems go), not my cup of tea. I would argue that the explosion in population due to the misuse or misapplication of science and wealth are their worst vice (5 out of 10 children hunger, suffer and die) causing a real catastrophy in moral, ecological, and spiritual terms. All the radiation released or money squandered on consumption I think pale in comparision to this.

Pax et amore omnia vincunt.
 
5 out of 10 children hunger, suffer and die causing a real catastrophy in moral, ecological, and spiritual terms.

All the radiation released or money squandered on consumption I think pale in comparision to this.

The dichonomy of existence is strange:

Poverty here; and, hedonist group tours over there.

Stupid sufferring over here; marvels of child prodigies over there.

Epidemiology of obesity - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
For thousands of years obesity was rarely seen.[3] It was not until the 20th century that it became common, so much so that in 1997 the World Health Organization (WHO) formally recognized obesity as a global epidemic.[4] As of 2005 the WHO estimates that at least 400 million adults (9.8%) are obese, with higher rates among women than men.[5] As of 2008, The World Health Organization claimed that 1.5 billion individuals over the age of 20 are considered obese.[6] The rate of obesity also increases with age at least up to 50 or 60 years old.[7] Once considered a problem only of high-income countries, obesity rates are rising worldwide. These increases have been felt most dramatically in urban settings.[5] The only remaining region of the world where obesity is not common is sub-Saharan Africa.[8]

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Such is the nature of a world composed of "Duality".

Not neccessarily ironic, just an iconically constant of diametrically opposite polarities,
Bhaktajan

PS: Starvation is due to un-organised criminal states, and,
Obesity is due to Mafia Food propaganda & distribution.

http://www.organicconsumers.org/Politics/russia32205.cfm
 
Yep. The issue (if you believe in morality) is the numbers of souls affected and the extent to which they are harmed. I could live with a horse for transportation and all the externals (except books) gone. But after a hip replacement, knee replacement, bariatric surgery (ending diabetes), a couple of shoulder and wrist operations, I like now. The food is fresher and better, too (I live on farm and go to farmers' markets).

And arguably we have a better time religiously. In the middle ages, freethinker like I were hunted down and burnt a lot more often (ICK!)
 
ACOT.... back to time. There are basically three was to view it. First you can believe that only the now exists and past memories are illusions generated (presentalism). Second you can believe that time is eternal and fixed (eternalism) that all things are pre-determined. Or third, you can believe what common-sense tells us that time is a flow that passes from future to present to past. Basically any metaphysics of time falls into one of these three. Now the solopsist may have a fourth alternative, that all time is an illusion within his or her own mind (which is the only mind), but one cannot discuss anything with them, so I do not discuss that kind of thought.

That much being said, there are generally two modes of Western analysis of time. One can take the mode of McTaggert, where he comes to the philosophical conclusion that our experience of time passing is an illusion. Time is fixed and we imagine we pass through it. From his wiki article:

"In The Unreality of Time (1908), the work for which he is best known today, McTaggart argued that our perception of time is an illusion[1], and that time itself is merely ideal. He introduced the notions of the "A series" and "B series" interpretations of time, representing two different ways that events in time can be arranged. The A series corresponds to our everyday notions of past, present, and future. The A series is "the series of positions running from the far past through the near past to the present, and then from the present to the near future and the far future" (p. 458). This is contrasted with the B series, in which positions are ordered from earlier to later, i.e. the series running from earlier to later moments.
McTaggart argued that the A series was a necessary component of any full theory of time, but that it was also self-contradictory and that our perception of time was, therefore, ultimately an incoherent illusion."

The second mode of analysis is Einsteinian. That is, based on his theories of relativity. To wit, time is merely a fourth dimension. Time has no independent basis. From the into to reltivity wiki"

"The last consequence of Minkowski's spacetime [the unification of time and apce into a four dimensional world Einstein used] is that clocks will appear to be out of phase with each other along the length of a moving object. This means that if one observer sets up a line of clocks that are all synchronised so they all read the same time, then another observer who is moving along the line at high speed will see the clocks all reading different times. This means that observers who are moving relative to each other see different events as simultaneous. This effect is known as "Relativistic Phase" or the "Relativity of Simultaneity". The "plane of simultaneity" or "surface of simultaneity" contains all those events that happen at the same instant for a given observer. Events that are simultaneous for one observer are not simultaneous for another observer in relative motion. Observers have a set of simultaneous events around them that they regard as composing the present instant. The relativity of simultaneity results in observers who are moving relative to each other having different sets of events in their present instant. The net effect of the four-dimensional universe is that observers who are in motion relative to you seem to have time coordinates that lean over in the direction of motion, and consider things to be simultaneous that are not simultaneous for you."

Since our time is defined in terms of things that are simultaneous and relativity states that they are only relatively simultaneous, it must be that out time is an illusion and is actually fixed just like location.

McTaggart and Einstein both then believe in and argue for eternalism or "A Block Universe". That is if we had a four dimensional aquarium filled with a map of locations and times we could "see" our particular life as a line wiggling through the aquarium. This was the basis for a couple of early (and great) Heinline stories.

But if you add that you can then have perfect knowledge (just like Newton and LaPlace hypothecized) you could predict everything in the past and in the future. Hence, everything is pre-destined and our feelings of the passage of time and free will are merely illusions. As Cartwright said of mind "it is but an epiphomena of what you had for dinner last night".

The arguements for materialism (mind epiphenominalism) and eternalism (fixed time) are, supposedly, what all good little scientists and philosophers are supposed to hold. However, if someone raised a gun towards you and you were one of these you would probably duck anyway.

I have presented the standard scientific version of time pretty well here, if you want me to I can go on to talk about the alternatives. Up to you.

Pax et amore omnia vincunt
 
In Tibetan Buddhism, there are people who are called tertons. (See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terma_(religion) ). These tertons are prophesied by Padmasambhava to appear in the future to give new impetus to the teachings for the benefit of various beings. Whether these tertons can fulfill the prophesies depend on the circumstances they are in and the choices that they make. So it would appear that the future is not deterministic as least as far a Tibetan Buddhism is concerned.

In Buddhism too, in particular in Tibetan Buddhism, there are highly realized practitioners who could tell you of your past lives and tell your future and future events.

So it would seem that the idea of a block universe would be consistent with the stories of prophecies and clairvoyance in Tibetan Buddhism, except that the block universe is not deterministic and the future in the block universe is a collection of possibilities with different probabilities of occurrence.
 
bread.jpg


I'm trying to understand the concept of time in an expanding universe. Hubble's Law explains that there is no "center" to the observable universe, and that in whichever direction you look from any point in the observable universe, you will see the universe expanding away from you. I can understand the visualization of raisin bread dough with the raisins representing planets/galaxies, etc. As the bread rises raisins get further apart from each other (the "universe" expands), moving with the dough not through the dough; i.e. space itself is expanding.

block.jpg


Let's consider the "block universe" you mentioned (Einstein's belief) where our "life" is a line squiggling through the block universe. But wouldn't this squggling line change over time as the universe expands? Therefore, wouldn't time also be expanding along with this block universe? How can time be fixed in an expanding universe?

Is the passage of time dependent upon the expansion of the universe? i.e. if the universe wasn't expanding would time stand still?
 
Well, you see, the cosmological constant was added by Einstein after Hubble began publishing. It is a correction factor to general relativity. Einstein initally had the Universe being static (and a great many astronomers and physicists tried to keep it so).

Both the expansion of the universe and the probable accelerating expansion rate really, really have eternalists scratching their heads. See, as you guessed, the math just does not work --the "ict" term (the dimension of time), if it is expanding implies that t is changing. If t is cahanging it is not static. That being said there are a lot of "mainstream" physicists not paying attention to cosmology and still trying to model everything as the Master did.

Unilke Einstein, Whitehead and the Quantum guys did not try to force the static view of nature onto their physics (so they will probably prevail in the end). While undobtably a genus, like Newton (who thought of himself really as an alchenist), Einstein, while setting the rules for the age we are now in was a prisoner of his thought. And that thought really, really was classical (he wanted to have a nice and neat and predictable Newtonian Universe). So if Newton was the Last Magus, Einstin was the Last Newtonian.

I am not defending the Block Universe and will move on to alternatives subsequently.

Pax et amore omnia vincunt
 
Good one, Sevetus!

Cheers, mate. I thought you'd like that. "Time" is a subject that clearly intrigues Laurie Anderson, one of the undeclared high priestesses of our culture, and she deals with the subject often. I recommended that link as a sort of interlude into this informative discussion.

Carry on.
 
And all the fires went out and all those pieces of metal re-constructed themselves and flew back up into the belly of the planes....... Guess who I am paraphrasing.
 
I have never understood why there would be a speed limit, I feel slightly mad since it is currently the accepted law...theory...never mind...
 
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