Hell? Do you believe it exist?

[IowaGuy]

The doctrine of Hell is the most evil idea ever invented....Of all the religious doctrines, this is by far the most psychologically coercive

And what makes it even worse, hell is taught from a very young age. My 5-year-old nephew, from a Southern Baptist family, knows "Uncle Iowa Guy" is going to hell since I'm not a Christian. He told me such the last time I saw him...

He loves his uncle very much (he told me that too). So imagine the confusion and suffering for a kid growing up thinking that someone he loves is going to burn in hell

 

[Nick the Pilot]

Scout,

There is no eternal hell. The original writings said that hells lasts for an eternity, not for enternity. (Feel free to ask for the biblical passage that correctly talks out the temporary nature of "eternity.")

You have nothing to worry about.

 

[Nick the Pilot]

IG,

You said,

"My 5-year-old nephew, from a Southern Baptist family, knows "Uncle Iowa Guy" is going to hell since I'm not a Christian."

--> I firmly believe that people who spread such stories will spend a corresponding about of time (in a temporary hell) for spreading such stories. (The sad thing is, they will not find out about this until after they die. It's a shame how Christianity sets these people up for failure in this way.)

It has been said that, when we try to enter nirvana (a much more difficult task than entering heaven), we will be required to provide proof that we deserve to enter nirvana. But the most amazing thing is that it has been said that we will not even be asked at that time if we are Christian, Buddhist, Hindu, etc. So people who say we go to hell for not being a Christian, Buddhist, Hindu, etc., are just making unnecessary trouble for everyone and unnecessary bad karma for themselves.

"...hell is taught from a very young age..."

--> As it should be. But what is not being taught is the correct causes for a two-way ticket to hell. Refusing to believe in Jesus, Buddha, etc., does not get us into hell.

 

[bob x]

Yes it was ... but the Tradition has moved on.

The Tradition has recognized that the Tradition is capable of being grotesquely and horribly wrong, you mean?

The original writings said that hells lasts for an eternity.

Sorry: the original writings were in a language that did not have any indefinite article, no word for an at all.

 

[Nick the Pilot]

The original biblical writings clearly taught that "eternity" was only a temporary arrangement. There are hints of this even in the present-day Bible. Let’s take a look.
　
"...and he will reign for ever and ever." Revelation 11:15 (New International Version)
　
"...from everlasting to everlasting you are God." Psalm 90:2 (New International Version)
　
The word for "ever" or "everlasting" in the ancient text was kalpa, which is a long period of time consisting of millions or billions of years. Therefore the original lines are correctly translated as
　
"...and he will reign for kalpa after kalpa. (for millions or billions of years)".
　
"...from kalpa to kalpa (for millions or billions of years) you are <God>."
　
In those days everyone was familiar with the concept of kalpas, and it was not possible to mistakenly imagine they lasted for eternity.
　
This answers the mystery as to why the words "everlasting" and "ever" — properly — appear twice in each sentence; they are referring to more than one kalpa. In English, there can only be one "everlasting" or "forever," clearly showing that the two quotes refer to something else.
　
This is another case of where the biblical text was originally correct, but has been edited into an incorrect version down through the centuries.
　
Hell (and heaven) are only temporary arrangements.

 

[NiceCupOfTea]

And what makes it even worse, hell is taught from a very young age. My 5-year-old nephew, from a Southern Baptist family, knows "Uncle Iowa Guy" is going to hell since I'm not a Christian. He told me such the last time I saw him...

He loves his uncle very much (he told me that too). So imagine the confusion and suffering for a kid growing up thinking that someone he loves is going to burn in hell

the doctrine of hell is also prevalent in islam.

my wife was raised with constant threats of burning in hell and told that if she did not wear a head scarf then the devils urinates on your head.

its all about fear and intimidation in order to manipulate and gain power over others.

 

[Thomas]

The Tradition has recognized that the Tradition is capable of being grotesquely and horribly wrong, you mean?

Depends whether you're talking about the substance or essence.

God bless,

Thomas

 

[Thomas]

The original biblical writings clearly taught that "eternity" was only a temporary arrangement. There are hints of this even in the present-day Bible. Let’s take a look.

Not quite sure what you think you mean by 'original', but as for the rest, this is nothing new, I can only assume it's your ignorance of anything but superficial Biblical tradition that you assume this is such a 'revelation'?

The word for "ever" or "everlasting" in the ancient text was kalpa,

Really? Where? When and why were the Jews writing in Sanskrit?

You sure it's not another case of an over-active imagination ... or pure assumption?

God bless,

Thomas

 

[Thomas]

its all about fear and intimidation in order to manipulate and gain power over others.

No, that's what it's become.

The actuality, or rather the metaphysical necessity, of 'hell' is something else altogether.

As usual, people assume the little they know is all there is to be known.

God bless,

Thomas

 

[wil]

The unknown and unseen is always powerful...

They were flooded because G!d punished them for their ways....

We were blessed because G!d rewarded us....

And then we add these silly concepts of heaven and hell to continue to spread fear....when it is all in their minds.

Folks are living in hell right now...while they are alive due to this state of consciousness....


But imagine the value of times past....of when hell was that dump burning at the edge of town....you had folks without skills or education or jobs searching through the rubble for scraps of food or something of value that they could find to sell to someone. You had those running the dump, taking on the bodies of itinerant, people and burning them....the place stunk up a storm, the people were filthy....

So mom takes her child and walks by the dump....and points to the people working there, points to the people scavenging, and tells of the burning of bodies.....and then walks through town and shows of the shop keepers, and the well kept tombs of the wealthy, and of the lawyers, and clergy....and presents the child with an option, study hard, be good, have a good life, get a good job...or spend the rest of your life and in dealth in sheol, hell, the dump...

That alone is powerful teaching....why do we think it needs hyperbole to add to it, and create little red critters with horns and a location in the center of the earth and a heaven above the clouds... how is it possible we haven't broken from that notion once we realized the impossibility of it all?

 

[NiceCupOfTea]

No, that's what it's become.

The actuality, or rather the metaphysical necessity, of 'hell' is something else altogether.

care to elaborate ?

As usual, people assume the little they know is all there is to be known.

God bless,

Thomas

no not really Thomas.

the little that i do know is probably wrong anyway.

but its just my opinion on things.

 

[Thomas]

care to elaborate ?

The one true freedom is to accept or refuse God (choosing 'self' is a de facto denial of God, as the true self is in God, not in itself).

God in this sense equates with what is real, what is true, and so on.

If man is truly free, that is for freedom to be real, then there has to be the reality of the result of choosing other-than-God, or other-than-the-Real, or other-than-the-True, which is illusory, unsustainable, and leads eventually to extinction.

So one might say Christ came along and said "If you're gonna play in the road, look out for the cars" which somehow we translate to "if you don't play by my rules I'll push you under a car" ...

So yes, I agree with you that I do not believe in hell as it is so often presented.

I think the closest sensible image we have to Gehenna is an extreme version of the 'naughty step'? That is, the ultimate act of exclusion.

God bless,

Thomas

 

[bob x]

In those days everyone was familiar with the concept of kalpas

In those days, people were not familiar with concepts from languages spoken thousands of miles away. No Biblical author knew a single word of Sanskrit.

Depends whether you're talking about the substance or essence.

The substance of it was crude psychological manipulations to intimidate the weak, and excuse acts of astounding physical cruelty by the strong. That was the very essence of your Tradition during those centuries.

 

[radarmark]

Hell, like G!d, or science, or spiritualism has changed meaning over the centuries. I believe Thomas is correct, the Jewish tradition is that Gehenna is a waiting room for all, within it the gehinom (those who have trod from the path) inflict suffering on temselves by not being in the Lord's presence and the path of return is always open (the Prodigal Son).

Like any other theological concept, one can find both the Hell and Gehenna traditions throughout Christianity (from Armenian and Ethiopian to the Cult founded yesterday). And it is not part of the Early Church doctrines, the Early Church Fathers, or the Creeds. It shows up full blown in the XIVth century Catechism of Trent (after Luther). So saying

"The substance of it was crude psychological manipulations to intimidate the weak, and excuse acts of astounding physical cruelty by the strong. That was the very essence of your Tradition during those centuries."

May be true for the post-Reformation Church, but those manipulations are more due to modernism and the fight with the protestants than with tradition.

Pax et amore omnia vincunt!

 

[bob x]

May be true for the post-Reformation Church, but those manipulations are more due to modernism and the fight with the protestants than with tradition.

No. Vivid depictions of eternal suffering had been on cathedrals for centuries before, with public demonstrations of the concept by burning people alive, in case anyone was unclear about the concept.

 

[Saltmeister]

Some of these posts remind me of the Divine Comedy.

 

[Ben Masada]

I have had many people tell me that they do not believe there will be Hell in the afterlife, because they believe God (Allah) SWT to be infinately Merciful and because He is so Merciful, they refuse to believe He can punish.

There is no such a thing as hell in the afterlife but the grave only. (Eccl. 12:7) Hell is what we cause to ourselves or to others here on earth.

I thought about that, and then came to personal conclusion that existance of Hell does make sense. I understand that God SWT is Merciful. He showed signs of His forgiveness in the Old Testament. Jesus pbuh spoke of the Mercy as well. The Holy Qur'an tells us that God SWT always forgives, is All Forgiving, that His Mercy is faster than His punishment. But, Hell makes sense.

God has nothing to do with punishing any one. We are punished by our own selves through the law of cause and effect.

Imagine a newborn baby who died for some reason. Pure. Innocent. Never uttered an evil word, let alone committed a sin. Obviously, this little being is in Heaven. Now, imagine someone like Hitler standing in Heaven next to that beuatiful little baby?

One does not die because he or she committed a sin, but because we have been born. That's the law of genesis and destruction; i.e. birth and death. And Heaven is not a place for one to go to, but a condition to be invited into ourselves. It is within you, said Jesus. (Luke 16:21) The only place Hitler would stand next to an innocent baby is in the grave.

I would get very angry!! What kind of Divine Justice would that be if God SWT would to forgive completely such an evil person, and put him right next to the little innocent being? For this reason, in my personal opinion, Hell makes sense. Certain people do so much evil (like Hitler), that they have stained their souls so much that they do not deserve nothing else but eternal suffering.

Blame not God but those of us who allowed Hitler to do so much evil. We have been granted with the attribute of freewill; and God does not interfere with it. And about eternal suffering, there is nothing eternal about man. Eternity belongs with God only. That's why man was banned from the Garden of Eden: To, metaphorically, prevent him from eating of the tree of life and live forever. (Gen. 3:22)

Ben

 

[Ahanu]

What do you believe?

An eternal hell is impossible for a just God. No human can create infinite wrongdoing to deserve inifinite punishment.

 

[fadded blue jeans]

I have had many people tell me that they do not believe there will be Hell in the afterlife, because they believe God (Allah) SWT to be infinately Merciful and because He is so Merciful, they refuse to believe He can punish.

I thought about that, and then came to personal conclusion that existance of Hell does make sense. I understand that God SWT is Merciful. He showed signs of His forgiveness in the Old Testament. Jesus pbuh spoke of the Mercy as well. The Holy Qur'an tells us that God SWT always forgives, is All Forgiving, that His Mercy is faster than His punishment. But, Hell makes sense.

Imagine a newborn baby who died for some reason. Pure. Innocent. Never uttered an evil word, let alone committed a sin. Obviously, this little being is in Heaven. Now, imagine someone like Hitler standing in Heaven next to that beuatiful little baby?
I would get very angry!! What kind of Divine Justice would that be if God SWT would to forgive completely such an evil person, and put him right next to the little innocent being? For this reason, in my personal opinion, Hell makes sense. Certain people do so much evil (like Hitler), that they have stained their souls so much that they do not deserve nothing else but eternal suffering.

What do you believe?

i beleive the bible says there is a hell and i beleive the bible also says even infants are guilty of sin..

Lord Jesus, you are my righteousness, I am your sin. You have taken upon yourself what is mine and given me what is yours. You have become what you were not so that I might become what I was not. MARTIN LUTHER

 

[fadded blue jeans]

the doctrine of hell is also prevalent in islam.

my wife was raised with constant threats of burning in hell and told that if she did not wear a head scarf then the devils urinates on your head.

its all about fear and intimidation in order to manipulate and gain power over others.

In Romans 7, St. Paul says, "The law is spiritual." What does that mean? If the law were physical, then it could be satisfied by works, but since it is spiritual, no one can satisfy it unless everything he does springs from the depths of the heart. But no one can give such a heart except the Spirit of God, who makes the person be like the law, so that he actually conceives a heartfelt longing for the law and henceforward does everything, not through fear or coercion, but from a free heart.-- Martin Luther (1483-1546), "Preface to the Letter of St. Paul to the Romans"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nGTPNue0-ZI&feature=relmfu