Science vs. religion: Does God exist?

If theists are required to believe in the probability that science is on the right track

Are theists required to believe anything?
I don't think I understand the question since science and religion operate, to my mind, in different dimensions and aren't mutually exclusive until one disproves the other, which I don't see as a possibility.
 
No one really requires theists to beleive in anything (by their own admission they believe in G!d). Probability is just required to model the world in some kind of consistent manner. Neither do atheists have to believe it.


There are plenty of theists who scof at the probabilities of quantum mechanics. Fine, but if you want to understand the workings of the chips in your computer you must use it (at least in an applied form). There are plenty of what are called frequentist statisticians, as mathematicians some are certainly atheists, and they care little for complex probability theory (bayesianism). A lot of relativity physicists have problems with the probabilities of quantum theory, it is a good bet they include some atheists.
 
"I am talking about the beliefs that we live by. And science is the religion of the twenty-first century.”

"But if science is the religion of the 21st century, why do we still seriously discuss heaven and hell, life after death, and the manifestations of God?" -Alan Brody

Thankfully someone "gets" it! I've been saying essentially the same thing here since I joined in '04, and have been saying it privately for years prior.

I suspect a good portion of the misunderstanding lies in each individual's "illusion" of comprehension...we tend to believe we know, when quite often we haven't got a clue. I've pointed this out again recently, when I mentioned that it isn't "we" who have discovered this or that, when the typical lay person can't even build a fire without matches, let alone build a nuclear power plant or build a rocket to the moon. Sure, there are "rare" individuals who have accomplished or contribute to these accomplishments, but for the overall society to claim credit is an act of faith no different than a church's congregation.

We in the 21st century first world with all of the luxuries of modern life at our reach, hold some rather strange idols and high priests, and many of them are from the realm of science (although certainly not all, many are also entertainers, but that invariably traces back to the scientific management of business). Even our politics are manipulated in such manner as to polarize the masses by scientific means. Clearly, Newton is still alive, in that science has pervaded and infiltrated religion, and become a religion of its own *in the minds of* the masses. It is irrelevent the dismissals, as science is "not about absolutes" and "science can change whenever better information comes available," these are red herrings that have no practical application at the ground level...science has supplanted religion in the minds of many, and presumes to perform the same functions.

This is not necessarily a bad thing...to a point. But there are issues science is ill equipped to address, just as science frequently points out how religion is ill equipped to address matters of science. The difference being that the elitist snobbery that often speaks as the mouth of science fails to recognize this shortcoming, at least publicly...and the lemmings unthinkingly mimic what they are told.

There are profound truths, realities, that science has no handle on yet, and may never. What is love? If you can prove love is chemicals in the brain, you have just proven G-d, because the *exact* same chemicals in the brain are evoked in the exact same places in the brain for G-d as they are for love. Maybe there is something to "G-d is love" afterall.

More to the point, if science could understand love, they could manipulate it...create it in a jar and sell to the highest bidder. I don't forsee that any time soon, the profits are greater with explosives and guided weapons.

Frankly, my underlying point is that we are *all*, religiously and scientifically, operating under the delusion of believing we understand. I don't think we've scratched the surface, none of us actually understands anything, let alone as much as we convince ourselves that we do.
 
The science (quantum physics) is such that it is possible for the Big Bang to be a rare but probable uncaused event (look up "virtual particles").


Oh! It's a pity that Albert Einstein has passed away already. You should have told this to him. Probably, he would have told you that God does not play dice. Anyways, this of an uncaused event sounds merely like verbal juggling to me. How could an event not be caused?
Ben
 
Are theists required to believe anything?
I don't think I understand the question since science and religion operate, to my mind, in different dimensions and aren't mutually exclusive until one disproves the other, which I don't see as a possibility.


It is very common to have atheists implying or demanding that theists cease bringing God into the equation. This is more than a requirement to believe as they do. I see everything as a possebility, including science and religion disproving each other. It has happened, and more than several times. Only that religion can't stand to be disproved.
Ben
 
No one really requires theists to beleive in anything (by their own admission they believe in G!d). Probability is just required to model the world in some kind of consistent manner. Neither do atheists have to believe it.


There are plenty of theists who scof at the probabilities of quantum mechanics. Fine, but if you want to understand the workings of the chips in your computer you must use it (at least in an applied form). There are plenty of what are called frequentist statisticians, as mathematicians some are certainly atheists, and they care little for complex probability theory (bayesianism). A lot of relativity physicists have problems with the probabilities of quantum theory, it is a good bet they include some atheists.


I find the concept of probability a very consistent manner, and the formula to absorb all kinds of beliefs.
Ben
 
Ben, I disagree with you because I don't see the groups you talk about as homogeneous.
Further, you seem to measure science against what you know about Einstein, I think that is a mistake, firstly, because you don't know everything Einstein did and, secondly, he didn't know everything we do know. That being said, I might very well know less then you on the subject. This was more an observation on your deduction.
 
I just say god and religion are just our imagination and science is the practicle and experience which belief in facts not in imagination. but we follow both to make your self happy.
 
I just say god and religion are just our imagination and science is the practicle and experience which belief in facts not in imagination. but we follow both to make your self happy.
Welcome shanel, I am quite appreciating your input to our threads.
 
According to this new site... we may make up God and the universe.

thesomervillehypothesis.com

David
 
An exercise:
a] Godhead-ship ---of which we know nothing?

b] anti-Godhead-ship ---of which we know everything?

Agreed? Why not?
 
Godhead, yes of it we know (intellectually) nothing.
anti-Godhead, no (if by "anti-Godheadship" you mean the physical or material world). We do not know it (even intellecually) and most likely will never know it (totally).
 
Godhead, yes of it we know (intellectually) nothing.
anti-Godhead, no (if by "anti-Godheadship" you mean the physical or material world). We do not know it (even intellecually) and most likely will never know it (totally).


Wait a minute!

What is it we do know?

Under which catagory is what we know?

We know not Godhead; and, We know not Anti-Godhead?

We are ignorati?

We know know Human-ism(s) Only?
 
Wait a minute!

What is it we do know?

Under which catagory is what we know?

We know not Godhead; and, We know not Anti-Godhead?

We are ignorati?

We know know Human-ism(s) Only?

We do not (intellectually) know the Godhead. We do not know (intellectualloy) that which is not the Godhead.

We know the Godhead experimentally (experienceially). We know what is not the Godhead only probabilistically. Grok, My Friend?

We can intellectually know about what is not-Godhead in terms of probabilities. Same with our intellectual claims about knowing the Godhead. We can experiencially know quite a lot about the Godhead (as Arjuna did) and quite a lot about what is not the Godhead (as Krsna does).

The problem is "what do you mean by know"?
 
The problem in your responce in the inclusion of the reference point-term 'Godhead'.

Whereas, the response should be including/addressing "What is it we do know?"

Thus, the reference point/bench-mark would exclude the term 'Godhead' and thus be replaced by " (tba) ".

We have encyclopedias with endless lists of things "To Know".

IMO, as the Vedas do say, "It's all mundane knowledge & recipes to provide comfort & enjoyment and warnings as to how to proceed without getting poisoned or sick".

Science is for "comfort & enjoyment and warnings".

With this banner flying high and mighty ---Religion has significance only in seeking only everlasting "comfort & enjoyment" ---something science will never do; except nebulously for the elite for a short span of time in history.
 

God = all of the above and no more and no less. imho

Absolute non-sense par excellance.

Mental speculation by self-reverential limited mind is NOT good enough.

The yellow pages of the telephone directory has page after page of experts in one field of expertise after the other ---all of them are the living representatives of their TEACHERS before them.

Their provinance and authenticity and bonefides are displayed and recorded in city-records.

That is how knowledge Exists & how it is dispensed.

God is exactly what has been passed down to us from our elders --no less . . . but much more . . . more data is revealed when we approach the elders inquiringly with a submissive attitude to serve in their foot steps.

"God is ... IMHO" ----puhhh leeezz.

"But your Honor, I am not guilty, IMHO!"
 
bhaktajan, was merely replying to your post #33.

Ooops! My Bad.

I am sorry.
Why do I recognize this error?

Is it because of the things I have seen in my life? It's all coming back to, oh my God.

As a kid I slept on an old dog bed stuffed with wigs!
I watched a prostitute stab a clown! Our basketball hoop was a ribcage! A ribcage.


I blocked all this stuff out for a reason. Oh, Lord.
Some guy with dreads electrocuted my fish!
You haven't walked in my shoes!

All my life I've tried to forget the things I've seen ---A crackhead breast-feeding a rat A homeless man cooking a Hot Pocket on a third rail of the metro train!

I've seen a blind guy bite a police horse!
A puppy committed suicide after he saw our bathroom!
I once bit into a burrito and there was a child's shoe in it!
I've seen a hooker eat a tire!
A pack of wild dogs took over and successfully ran a the corner store!
The sewer people stole my skateboard!
The public housing were named after Nimrod Taylor, generally considered to be one of the worst dog catchers of all time! I once saw a baby give another baby a tattoo! They were very drunk!
 
Your "non-sense" comments with no rational that directly addresses even any one

What appears to be coming from you most of the times a lot of irrelevant bravado, mixied with some irrelevant hot air

Guilty as Judged.

Thx for you consideration of my thoughts.
Eventually you may add something worthy of significant change in my comments as stated.

I suggest you re-read my posts without super-imposing your ego with the Topic of Discussion.

I usually speak in general terms.

As you may suppose, they are filled with references to profound rationale in everything I post. Look for it, it's there.

::::::::::::::::::::::::::
For example:

"World peace for Human's cannot be obtained in a dog-eat-dog world." ---More techniquely, Cow eating is the same as cannabilising one's Mother; ergo, PEACE is a fantasy spoken of only by Stoners and Winos.

Science talking proud & haughty while selling nooses at inflated prices.
Your boss wants to be a Tony Soprano ---and he hides his contempt for the under-achievers arounnd him. Tony is a gracious Stand-up guy.

Yep. Everyone, back to work!
 
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