Thomas, you rudely insult me (you must be English), with an opinion that you call a fact.
I said, nowhere in the Gospels of the 4 evangelists do any one of them say, "Jesus is God," "God is Jesus," or quote Jesus saying, "I am God." It just ain't there. Stop lying.
Jesus never said, clearly and unequivocally, "I am God." He never said, "I am one of three persons making up God."
Jesus did say, addressing Mary Magdalene, (John 20:17) "...but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father and your Father; and to my GOD, and your GOD." In prayer to God, that is, the Father, Jesus said, “YOU, the only true GOD.” (John 17:3). He clearly states his (Jesus') relation to God was the same as that of Mary of Magdala. He and Mary of Magdala considered God to be both my (our) God and my (our) Father. We normally don't refer to Mary as the Daughter of God. God is everyone's Father. But Jesus himself, Mary Magdala (the apostle Jesus loved) and the brethren all considered “God” as their God.
"My God, My God, why hast THOU forsaken ME.?" This also shows a difference between Jesus and GOD. This shows that Jesus addressed GOD as other than himself. Who in bloody hell was he talking to?
It also gives a valuable hint that Jesus didn't expect this outcome (being nailed on a cross) and felt forsaken. So he didn't know and was not omniscient, and not God. “My God,” was not from someone who considered himself to be God.
And if Jesus were God, then by whom was he deserted? Himself? That would not make sense. Jesus also said: “Father, into your hands I entrust my spirit.” (Luke 23:46) If Jesus were God, for what reason should he entrust his spirit to the Father?
In 2 Corinthians 1:3 the apostle Paul confirms this relationship: “Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.” Since Jesus had a God, his Father, he could not at the same time be that God. “For us there is one God, the Father . . . and there is one Lord, Jesus Christ.” (1 Corinthians 8:6, JB) The apostle shows the distinction when he mentions “the presence of God and of Christ Jesus and of the elect angels.” (1 Timothy 5:21, RS Common Bible).
Jesus further showed that he was a separate entity denying being good? “No one is good but God alone.” (Mark 10:18, JB) So Jesus was distinguishing from God by saying: “Why do you call one is as good as God is, not even Jesus himself”. God is good in a way that separates him from Jesus.
“The Son cannot do anything at his own pleasure, he can only do what he sees his Father doing.” (John 5:19, The Holy Bible, by Monsignor R. A. Knox) “I have come down from heaven to do, not my will, but the will of him that sent me.” (John 6:38) “What I teach is not mine, but belongs to him that sent me.” (John 7:16) Is not the sender superior to the one sent?
The followers of Jesus prayed to God about “thy holy servant Jesus, whom thou didst anoint, . . . and signs and wonders are performed through the name of thy holy servant Jesus.”—Acts 4:23, 27, 30, RS, Catholic edition. The Disciples themselves believed that Jesus was an important person, possibly more than human but not God.
Jesus indicated his Father’s superiority when he said: “Jehovah’s spirit is upon me, because he anointed me to declare good news to the poor.” (Luke 4:18). God is plainly the superior, for he anointed Jesus, giving him authority that he did not previously have.
“As for seats at my right hand and my left, these are not mine to grant; they belong to those to whom they have been allotted by my Father,” that is, God. (Matthew 20:23, JB) Had Jesus been Almighty God, those positions would have been his to give. But Jesus could not give them, for they were God’s to give, and Jesus was not God.
“Father, if you wish, remove this cup from me. Nevertheless, let, not my will, but yours take place.” (Luke 22:42) To whom was he praying? To a part of himself? No, he was praying to someone entirely separate, his Father, God, whose will was superior and could be different from his own, the only One able to “remove this cup.”
“God [who] resurrected [Jesus] by loosing the pangs of death.” (Acts 2:24) The superior, God Almighty, raised the lesser, his servant Jesus, from the dead. Jesus Had Limited Knowledge. He stated: “But of that day or that hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.” (Mark 13:32, RS, Catholic edition).
In Hebrews 5:8 Jesus “learned obedience from the things he suffered.” Can we imagine that God had to learn anything? No, but Jesus did, for he did not know everything that God knew. And he had to learn something that God never needs to learn—obedience. God never has to obey anyone.
Jesus did not make comments or indicate that he knew Leprosy was caused by a bacterium. He blamed it on sin. He could have at least recommended sanitary procedures like bathing, washing hands after contact that we do today, and there is very little Leprosy in Inverness-shire. He did not know the common causes of blindness (glaucoma, diabetic retinopathy, macular degeneration, cataracts, trachoma virus, Loa Loa, Sarcoidosis, Optic Neuritis, Optic nerve drusen, Optic nerve gliomas, strokes, alcoholic optic degeneration, and Ischemic Optic Neuropathy. There are more.
He could have helped Sarcoid ophthalmopathy and Optic Neuritis with some simple anti-inflammatory herbal agents do work to some extent. But Jesus either chose to not treat them, and teach them some self-treatment.
Sanitation could stop the spread of Trachoma and Loa Loa. Dietary adjustment could have lessened the severity of all of the diabetic complications. I realise that he could do nothing for Optic Tumours or Macular Degeneration. He could have cautioned against alcohol (many neurological complications) but HE MADE WINE.
That would be funny but if Jesus knew but withheld health advice he was a psychopath. If he did not know he was ignorant and a poor excuse for a god.
He thought demons caused epilepsy and mental illness. Lastly, Satan took Jesus to a high mountain to view all of the nations of the Earth. He and/or Jesus thought the Earth was flat. One cannot see nations on the opposite side of a spherical earth. Jesus and Satan could not see Japan, Hawaii, the Maori Kingdom of New Zealand, Champa, Vietnam, Cambodia, the Mexican, or the Andean Empires.
If he supposedly created everything would not he know that the Earth was a sphere? As a Demon who supposedly saw Creation, and tormented people all over the world, he should have known the Earth to be spherical. Jesus didn’t question his premise that he could see all of the Nations from one mountain top. So Jesus and Satan both flunked Geometry 101 and Geology 201.
All that we read in the New Testament suggests a fully human Jesus. If we are open minded comprehending what is written, cannot help but assume that God was superior to Jesus. And that Jesus was at best a created secondary deity or perhaps just a man.
The gospels were written in the First Century before the Romans had deified Jesus. The earliest gospel was written about 70 A.D. and John may have been written by 120 AD. At this time the exact status of Jesus was hotly debated. The gospels seem to be somewhere theologically between Ebionites and Nazarites with hint of evolving Arianism that is clearly present in Paul’s letters. Thus Arianism was very early before Bishop Arius preached it in 319 AD. This was the initial deification of Jesus but as a created and subordinate god obedient to the High God (JHWH).
Verses used to support the deification of Jesus are all very vague and ambiguous, such as "I am" but no definitive statement of divinity. As a matter of fact, “I am” Amergin. That vague “I am” comment is far outnumbered by the many statements indicating that he was not God, was not equal to the Father, but subordinate, and “sent” by the God.
Note: I do not quote the insane rantngs of John of Patmos. The fictional Jesus he depicted bears no resemblance to Jesus of the Gospels.
May those who are not blinded to reason by blind faith remove the chains of ignorance to understand the world instead of wallowing in the muck of irrational superstition.
Amergin
