Christian Taliban trying to take over America

[Amergin]

This is a cut-paste from Facebook by a retired US Army Officer.

Soldier Sues Army, Saying His Atheism Led to Threats

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/26/us/26atheist.html

Last month, Specialist Hall and the Military Religious Freedom Foundation, an advocacy group, filed suit in federal court in Kansas, alleging that Specialist Hall’s right to be free from state endorsement of religion under the First Amendment had been violated and that he had faced retaliation for his views. In November, he was sent home early from Iraq because of threats from fellow soldiers.

“They don’t trust you because they think you are unreliable and might break, since you don’t have God to rely on,” Specialist Hall said of those who proselytize in the military. “The message is, ‘It’s a Christian nation, and you need to recognize that.’ ”

 

[Amergin]

Complaints include prayers “in Jesus’ name” at mandatory functions, which violates military regulations, and officers proselytizing subordinates to be “born again.” “Religion is inextricably intertwined with their jobs,”

Mr. Weinstein said. “You’re promoted by who you pray with.” Though with a different unit now at Fort Riley, Specialist Hall said the backlash had continued. He has a no-contact order with a sergeant who, without provocation, threatened to “bust him in the mouth.” Another sergeant allegedly told Specialist Hall that as an atheist, he was not entitled to religious freedom because he had no religion.

Military Atheists?

The USAF did an anonymous survey in 1997 indicating that 11% of Air Force personnel had no theistic belief. Most other surveys have shown very low percentages because of fear that being outed as an Atheist means no promotions, plenty of threats, blocking re-enlistment, and perhaps like Pat Tillman suffered, friendly fire.

 

[wil]

I love conjecture and whining....it goes so well with oh woe is me.

How is an Atheist ok with prayer but complain about "in Jesus name"?

The nice implication that they are in fear of being shot for their beliefs.....or unbelief, yeilds the following appropriate response.

Good Grief.

 

[radarmark]

This continues to be an on-going problem in the military. Why? There are three good reasons: (1) being an all-volunteer force it no longer represents a cross section of America, (2) under current economic conditions thew military is recruiting no longer from the poorest or the most idealistic but the disenfranchised, and (3) we just have more of these Evangelical around.

Those of you who are in the US of A need to be aware of this problem and the long term threat it could forshadow (de facto Christianizing of the military).

Pax et amore omnia vincunt.

 

[Amica]

Don't worry. Believers in God will find a way to make everyone have rights. I must say that Jewish people in the U.S. are one of the most proactive in human rights advocacy, even if it means defending rights of atheists, polytheists or whoever. You will find Jews in many advocacy groups, even in the leadership positions fighting for human rights.

At least, that is my observation since I have been in the U.S. for the past 16 years.

 

[radarmark]

We Quakers try to base our concepts of social justice upon their lead. The Bible is guidance on how to live your life ethically (if one allows Halakhah or "Quaker Consensus"). We just take a looooooooooot more time.

Pax et amore omnia vincunt.

 

[NiceCupOfTea]

how long are their beards ?

 

[IowaGuy]

Don't worry. Believers in God will find a way to make everyone have rights. I must say that Jewish people in the U.S. are one of the most proactive in human rights advocacy, even if it means defending rights of atheists, polytheists or whoever.

You're painting with a very broad brush when you say "believers in God". There are some pretty nasty people out there that believe in God, in my experience. After all, many of those involved in the slave trade were so-called Christians or Jews. Did they make sure everyone had rights? I'm not sure if you've traveled much in the southern U.S., but last time I was through Alabama, the Confederate flag was flying strong in many parts. Does that symbolize rights for everyone?

If atheists' rights were not protected by the constitution, Christians would not defend them one iota in my experience of 40 years in this country. Jews, probably. Conservative christians, no way José.

 

[radarmark]

First of all NCOT, imagine Bararossa's beard spiraling aroud the table and you get some idea. From the time of the first Quakerly almost binding anti-slavery resolution to the time they threatened turning out slaveholders was nearly a hundred years. Drives some crazy, sometimes. I like it, the discussions, levels of correspondence, and virtual unanimity ensure the integrity of the process and justice.

Pax et amore vincunt omnia!

 

[Amergin]

I love conjecture and whining....it goes so well with oh woe is me.

How is an Atheist ok with prayer but complain about "in Jesus name"?

The nice implication that they are in fear of being shot for their beliefs.....or unbelief, yeilds the following appropriate response.

Good Grief.

You show your real character or lack thereof. Tell the parents of Pat Tillman (former NFL player who volunteered for duty after 9-11) that he was not shot because he publically admitted his Atheism. Did they shoot him because they hated the Arizona Cardinals or the NFL in general? His death and the coverup by the Pentagon are a major scandal to those of us over here.

Did you take reading in school? Can't you understand a young soldier living in fear that he might slip and admit his Atheism, shows the dark danger of Crawthumper evangelical proselytising in military academies and over enlisted men. Thousands of US soldiers and sailors who do not believe have to be very careful and not have conversations overheard by Crawthumper Inquisition spies.

Polls of military on active duty, show very few taking the risk of admitting lack of theistic belief. Only after they leave the military can they be honest and open. 10% of US soldiers in Vietnam were atheists but the current religious crusading had not yet begun. It seems likely that soldiers in the military represent the broad US public with percentages of Atheists and Free-thinkers being also at 5% to 11%. Again even civilian polls have to assume many non-theists fear the consequences of admitting atheism to pollsters.

The Talibanisation of America began in the 80's and has inflltrated Military Academies and active duty enlisted troops. The MAAF which helps Atheistic troops who are victimised, said a new fear is among some normal Christians who fear being falsely accused of Atheism putting their lives in danger. Many who are secretly Atheists, Agnostics, or Rationalists communicate on Military discussion boards under code names like we do here. This kind of anti-Atheism does not exist in Europe.

Veterans in support groups for PTSD support groups have brought up this topic too Veteran's counsellors, psychologists, and psychiatrists who worked with these American heroes. One stress was fear of Extremist Christian Predators against either Atheists or Gays.

American Taliban do now wear beards. Overage Hippies wear the beards and their only danger is growing marijuana in wilderness areas. America's Taliban look like normal white Europeans. Soldiers realize that they cannot detect a Taliban agent in their platoons or companies because they can only tell if the spy is heard doing the familiar robotic "Jesus Talk." One possible spy is often a very vocal homophobe. There is a strong connection between Taliban Christianity and Homophobia.

Some companies, one MAAF soldier told me, have identified the "Jesus freaks" and are wary of them, and even wary of offending them in any way. Many soldiers who are not atheists have been accused of atheism despite denials from them. "Of course the sinful atheist is going to deny it." It is only one stress in an army that is overstretched, to over-rotated.

Amergin

 

[Saltmeister]

You're painting with a very broad brush when you say "believers in God". There are some pretty nasty people out there that believe in God, in my experience.

If a person believes in God but does evil, that's a violation of one of the Ten Commandments, especially if they claim that the evil they do is inspired by God -- because one of the commandments is that God's name must not be used for evil purposes. People usually mistake this one for the "don't use God's name in vain" thing and condemn swearing and expletives.

 

[Amergin]

Don't blame me for revealing this problem. The Conservative, openly christian press of America is reluctant to investigate or report on this issue. A few like the NY Times takes this risky stand. Very few newspapers or telecommunications new agencies are eager to cover stories about Christian Terrorists like (Tim McVeigh, Eric Rudolph, Paul Hill, Buford Furrow, Scott Roeder, John Salvi, Bill Matthews (the Order), and groups like Christian Identity, Aryan Nations (Church of Jesus Christ Christian), Army of God, and the KKK.

American doctors attending courses and conferences in Britain, often feel free to admit these issues. Over 95% of American Neurologists are Atheists. The exceptions are those in smaller cities in which primary care referrals could dry up if their atheism is "outed." It is noteworthy that most Family doctors attend Churches publicly, have a Bible on their office desk. They depend on direct appointments of patients. A Kentucky doctor 8 years ago displayed a Cross on his wall and two bibles in the waiting room was outed as an Atheist by someone. When confronted, he refused to deny it. He lost his practice and had to relocate to a more advanced state. His name is withheld for the safety of he and his family.

I did not invent those blokes and groups. Google them.

My question from my safe abode over here, is what do you think will happen when or if a Christian Taliban Kingdom of Jesus.

Amergin
PS. I mean no offence to Jesus. Those groups have twisted Jesus from the hero of the Gospels to the Killer General of the Apocalypse.

 

[Amergin]

Is America to eventually repeal the First Amendment?

If it were a public vote, the amendment would be repealed and replaced by a "Christian Nation" Amendment. Ratification by 37 states is a shoo in since liberals, Religious Freedom supporters, Atheists, Agnostics, and Rationalists are concentrated on the Northeast and Pacific Coast. The vast number of low population states of the interior could ratify the amendment.

Amergin.

 

[Saltmeister]

Polls of military on active duty, show very few taking the risk of admitting lack of theistic belief. Only after they leave the military can they be honest and open. 10% of US soldiers in Vietnam were atheists but the current religious crusading had not yet begun. It seems likely that soldiers in the military represent the broad US public with percentages of Atheists and Free-thinkers being also at 5% to 11%. Again even civilian polls have to assume many non-theists fear the consequences of admitting atheism to pollsters.
...........
Some companies, one MAAF soldier told me, have identified the "Jesus freaks" and are wary of them, and even wary of offending them in any way. Many soldiers who are not atheists have been accused of atheism despite denials from them. "Of course the sinful atheist is going to deny it." It is only one stress in an army that is overstretched, to over-rotated.

This is tragic. I normally have nothing to say about these rants of your's because Christianity isn't defined by any single group and for that reason there is no point arguing with you, but I decided to comment on this. Two years ago, I was posting rants about how fundamentalist Christianity in America was turning that country upside down. At some point, I even became quite anti-American, saying that Americans were idiots and Americans were stupid for letting this happen. American science and engineering was going downhill because the American education system was being overtaken by people with a religious agenda. If these people really cared about their country and were truly worried about China, they wouldn't allow such ideology to drag the education system down with it. If they were true nationalists, they would train more scientists and engineers.

I stopped for a number of reasons. One was because I was tired of venting. The other was that I believed I had offended a few people on these forums. I think a number of Christian forum members either left or stopped posting because I became quite fiercely opposed to their brand of Christianity. Some went so far as to say that the Christianity forum wasn't "Christian" anymore.

Maybe I should start posting those rants again, write a book about what I think of fundamentalist Christianity and set up a web site with polemic against fundies. Start an all-out war.

Well, ..... I don't know. I think I may have moved on to something else. It's the story of how I turned into Darth Vader.

Maybe you should start a "Take the Army Back from the Jesus Freaks" campaign. May the Force be with you. To maximise the chances of success, you may need some allies. Enlist the help of Muslims, Jews, Buddhists, Wiccans, New Agers, etc.

 

[Saltmeister]

Amergin
PS. I mean no offence to Jesus. Those groups have twisted Jesus from the hero of the Gospels to the Killer General of the Apocalypse.

I reckon it's part of what I like to call the "Illuminati Conspiracy." The Christianisation of America is actually good for the politicians. You may not know how many people will vote on issues like Medicare, deficit-spending and bail-out plans, but mention Jesus, abortion or homosexual marriage and you are sure to get the whole flock. You probably won't be labelled as a bigot or be considered insane.

When was the last time a politician received criticism for saying he believed in Jesus? I am sure the media loved him.

I think there's a good reason why. It's because politicians who do that stuff look brave and courageous. People are afraid that others will think they are idiots for declaring themselves Jesus freaks. That's exactly why people love politicians who are Jesus freaks. They aren't considered cowards.

 

[Ben Masada]

Don't worry. Believers in God will find a way to make everyone have rights. I must say that Jewish people in the U.S. are one of the most proactive in human rights advocacy, even if it means defending rights of atheists, polytheists or whoever. You will find Jews in many advocacy groups, even in the leadership positions fighting for human rights.

At least, that is my observation since I have been in the U.S. for the past 16 years.

Therefore, tell America not to worry. Israel is flying right behind her.
Ben

 

[Amergin]

Maybe you should start a "Take the Army Back from the Jesus Freaks" campaign. May the Force be with you. To maximise the chances of success, you may need some allies. Enlist the help of Muslims, Jews, Buddhists, Wiccans, New Agers, etc.

I participate in the fight for Freedom of and from all Religion in my homeland. I can only advise Americans to avoid the pitfalls of changing Paine/Jefferson/Madison's Secular Constitutional Republic to a Fascist like Plutocracy of Corporations in alliance with Aggressive extremist (Taliban) Christianity.

All Christians, even in generally right wing America, are not extremists. However, they seem to be a majority of Republican/Tea Bagger Party. Many of them openly advocate the issues of Christian Reconstructionism, Dominionism, Theonomy, and Theocracy. I am not talking about mentally stable Mainstream Christians, Catholics, Orthodox, or Liberal Christians.

The alliance of Corporations/Business with God and Militarism constitute what Mussolini called Fascism. Why is it not Fascism in America? Hitler had "Gott Mitt Uns" on his SS belt Buckles. He claimed to be doing God's work (in the Final Solution.) He claimed to be a Catholic but felt more attracted by the virulent anti-Semite Martin Luther. Luther influenced Hitler's hate of Jews.

You need to read more history especially European History in which aggressive Christianity produced the Dark Ages.

Don't blame me, I just report what I see. It is your responsibility to save your own country. I am concerned because if America is a Rogue Empire, nobody in the world is safe.

Amergin

 

[donnann]

I participate in the fight for Freedom of and from all Religion in my homeland. I can only advise Americans to avoid the pitfalls of changing Paine/Jefferson/Madison's Secular Constitutional Republic to a Fascist like Plutocracy of Corporations in alliance with Aggressive extremist (Taliban) Christianity.

All Christians, even in generally right wing America, are not extremists. However, they seem to be a majority of Republican/Tea Bagger Party. Many of them openly advocate the issues of Christian Reconstructionism, Dominionism, Theonomy, and Theocracy. I am not talking about mentally stable Mainstream Christians, Catholics, Orthodox, or Liberal Christians.

The alliance of Corporations/Business with God and Militarism constitute what Mussolini called Fascism. Why is it not Fascism in America? Hitler had "Gott Mitt Uns" on his SS belt Buckles. He claimed to be doing God's work (in the Final Solution.) He claimed to be a Catholic but felt more attracted by the virulent anti-Semite Martin Luther. Luther influenced Hitler's hate of Jews.

You need to read more history especially European History in which aggressive Christianity produced the Dark Ages.

Don't blame me, I just report what I see. It is your responsibility to save your own country. I am concerned because if America is a Rogue Empire, nobody in the world is safe.

Amergin

I support all non aggressive religions in america.

 

[radarmark]

I participate in the fight for Freedom of and from all Religion in my homeland. I can only advise Americans to avoid the pitfalls of changing Paine/Jefferson/Madison's Secular Constitutional Republic to a Fascist like Plutocracy of Corporations in alliance with Aggressive extremist (Taliban) Christianity.

Brava! I suggest, however, "Corporate Welfare" in lieu of "Fascist like Plutocracy of Coprorations" and "Corporatism" in lieu of capitalism and eliminate "extremist (Taliban)". Do not get me wrong, it's just that these three terms turn off fewer.

All Christians, even in generally right wing America, are not extremists. However, they seem to be a majority of Republican/Tea Bagger Party. Many of them openly advocate the issues of Christian Reconstructionism, Dominionism, Theonomy, and Theocracy. I am not talking about mentally stable Mainstream Christians, Catholics, Orthodox, or Liberal Christians.

Have to understand that right wing America is the Republican Party, so limit "Aggressive Christians" (not extremists) to "Tea Bagger Party". And learn to fight Reconstructionism, Dominionism, Theonomy, and Theocracy on their own turf (ideas like inclusion and non-violence).

The alliance of Corporations/Business with God and Militarism constitute what Mussolini called Fascism. Why is it not Fascism in America? Hitler had "Gott Mitt Uns" on his SS belt Buckles. He claimed to be doing God's work (in the Final Solution.) He claimed to be a Catholic but felt more attracted by the virulent anti-Semite Martin Luther. Luther influenced Hitler's hate of Jews.

You know your history, but the last two sentences would eliminate you from debate in Minnsota and Iowa (Lutherans).

You need to read more history especially European History in which aggressive Christianity produced the Dark Ages.
Don't blame me, I just report what I see. It is your responsibility to save your own country. I am concerned because if America is a Rogue Empire, nobody in the world is safe.

I don't blame you. Fact is I may be more extremem than you on this. But I believe the correct (winning) way to proceed is through co-option and debate, not (even if correct) labels and name calling.

I try, but I fail a lot.


Panta Rhei! (Everything Flows!)

 

[donnann]

Brava! I suggest, however, "Corporate Welfare" in lieu of "Fascist like Plutocracy of Coprorations" and "Corporatism" in lieu of capitalism and eliminate "extremist (Taliban)". Do not get me wrong, it's just that these three terms turn off fewer.



Have to understand that right wing America is the Republican Party, so limit "Aggressive Christians" (not extremists) to "Tea Bagger Party". And learn to fight Reconstructionism, Dominionism, Theonomy, and Theocracy on their own turf (ideas like inclusion and non-violence).



You know your history, but the last two sentences would eliminate you from debate in Minnsota and Iowa (Lutherans).



I don't blame you. Fact is I may be more extremem than you on this. But I believe the correct (winning) way to proceed is through co-option and debate, not (even if correct) labels and name calling.

I try, but I fail a lot.


Panta Rhei! (Everything Flows!)

this isnt your homeland if you do not believe in the constitution if you live in america. freedom of religion is guarenteed.