The Only Way to Escape Hell

[Princely]

John 13:34-35

Jesus said:

34 "I give you a new commandment: love one another. Just as I have loved you, you must also love one another. 35 By this all people will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another."​

Princely Wrote;

People do not understand the meaning of that statement.To love others as Jesus and the son of man love others is not the same as what man thinks loving others is.People cannot understand the word of God unless they continue in His words and follow His teaching just as He did. Read that statement in its context below.

"As the Father has loved me, so I have loved you. Live on in in my love.
You will live in my love if you keep my commandments , just as I have kept my Father's commandments and live in his love.
I have told you this so that my joy may be in you and your joy may be complete.
This is my commandment: love one another as I have loved you. No one has greater love than this, to lay down one's life for one's friends.You are my friends if you do what I command you.

To understand what He means by keeping His commandments as He kept His Fathers commandments, you need to see what those commandments are. Below you can see the definition in His words.

"If anyone hears my words and does not keep them, I do not condemn him, for I did not come to condemn the world but to save it.
Whoever rejects me and does not accept my words he already has his judge namely the words I‘ve spoken that’s what will condemn him on the last day, because I did not speak on my own, but the Lord who sent me commanded me what to say and how to speak.
And since I know that his commandment means eternal life. What I say is spoken just as he instructed me".

 

[seattlegal]

Princely Wrote;

People do not understand the meaning of that statement.To love others as Jesus and the son of man love others is not the same as what man thinks loving others is.People cannot understand the word of God unless they continue in His words and follow His teaching just as He did. Read that statement in its context below.

"As the Father has loved me, so I have loved you. Live on in in my love.
You will live in my love if you keep my commandments , just as I have kept my Father's commandments and live in his love.
I have told you this so that my joy may be in you and your joy may be complete.
This is my commandment: love one another as I have loved you. No one has greater love than this, to lay down one's life for one's friends.You are my friends if you do what I command you.

To understand what He means by keeping His commandments as He kept His Fathers commandments, you need to see what those commandments are. Below you can see the definition in His words.

"If anyone hears my words and does not keep them, I do not condemn him, for I did not come to condemn the world but to save it.
Whoever rejects me and does not accept my words he already has his judge namely the words I‘ve spoken that’s what will condemn him on the last day, because I did not speak on my own, but the Lord who sent me commanded me what to say and how to speak.
And since I know that his commandment means eternal life. What I say is spoken just as he instructed me".

I don't know which bible you are using, but the larger context of John 13 is this:

21 When Jesus had said this, He was troubled in His spirit and testified, " I assure you: One of you will betray Me!" 22 The disciples started looking at one another—uncertain which one He was speaking about. 23 One of His disciples, the one Jesus loved, was reclining close beside Jesus. 24 Simon Peter motioned to him to find out who it was He was talking about. 25 So he leaned back against Jesus and asked Him, "Lord, who is it?"
26 Jesus replied, "He's the one I give the piece of bread to after I have dipped it." When He had dipped the bread, He gave it to Judas, Simon Iscariot's son. 27 After [Judas ate] the piece of bread, Satan entered him. Therefore Jesus told him, "What you're doing, do quickly."
28 None of those reclining at the table knew why He told him this. 29 Since Judas kept the money-bag, some thought that Jesus was telling him, "Buy what we need for the festival," or that he should give something to the poor. 30 After receiving the piece of bread, he went out immediately. And it was night.

The New Commandment

31 When he had gone out, Jesus said, "Now the Son of Man is glorified, and God is glorified in Him. 32 If God is glorified in Him, God will also glorify Him in Himself and will glorify Him at once. 33 "Children, I am with you a little while longer. You will look for Me, and just as I told the Jews, 'Where I am going you cannot come, ' so now I tell you.
34"I give you a new commandment: love one another. Just as I have loved you, you must also love one another. 35 By this all people will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another."

Peter's Denials Predicted

36 "Lord," Simon Peter said to Him, "where are You going?" Jesus answered, "Where I am going you cannot follow Me now, but you will follow later."
37 "Lord," Peter asked, "why can't I follow You now? I will lay down my life for You!"
38 Jesus replied, "Will you lay down your life for Me? I assure you: A rooster will not crow until you have denied Me three times.​

 

[seattlegal]

Ahh. John 15.

 

[Ben Masada]

"In everything do to others as you would have them do to you; for this is the law and the prophets.

And this " the law and the prophets," is what Jesus did not come to abolish but to fulfill and to make sure we all did the same down to the letter, even to the dot of the letter, according to Mat. 5:17-19. And that's what, later, Paul came and contradicted Jesus by saying that it had been abolished on the cross, as if Jesus did not know what he was talking about. (Ephe. 2:15)
Ben

 

[Ben Masada]

Hell, what a concept. The way I see it, if Adolph Hitler really had a change of heart after he fired the round into his brain, but before it got there, the Lutherian god would slow time to let him accept Jesus as Savior and forgiven his sins (including the last one, killing himself). Meanwhile Ghandiji had heard three times and had refused to accept three times.

I would rather stand shoulder to shoulder with Ghandi in Hell than to be in Heaven with Hitler.

Panta Rhei!(Everything Flows!)

Ghandi and Hitler are both in the dust of the earth. There is no such things as heaven and hell as places to go to. Heaven or hell is what we cause to ourselves or to others here on earth. Jesus himself said that heaven is an esoteric condition which is found within each one of us. (Luke 17:21) And so it could be hell too.
Ben

 

[Ben Masada]

John 13:34-35

Jesus said:

34 "I give you a new commandment: love one another. Just as I have loved you, you must also love one another. 35 By this all people will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another."
​

Jesus gave no commandment, but rather confirmed what had been given since the beginning. (Mat. 5:17-19) Besides, to love one another, could never be a commandment. Love is an emotion, and emotions cannot be dictated upon. One cannot be commanded to love. To respect, yes, but not to love.
Ben

 

[radarmark]

Ben -- the comment was not for one as understanding as you.

 

[Ben Masada]

Ben -- the comment was not for one as understanding as you.

I understand what you mean, but what I said still stands, because love, being an emotion, emotion is present in every human being. Being myself human, I took to answer the post.
Ben

 

[seattlegal]

Jesus gave no commandment, but rather confirmed what had been given since the beginning. (Mat. 5:17-19) Besides, to love one another, could never be a commandment. Love is an emotion, and emotions cannot be dictated upon. One cannot be commanded to love. To respect, yes, but not to love.
Ben

Emotions certainly can be played upon. See Matt 24:12

12 Because lawlessness will multiply, the love of many will grow cold.​

I understand what you mean, but what I said still stands, because love, being an emotion, emotion is present in every human being. Being myself human, I took to answer the post.
Ben

Spiritual freedom comes from not allowing your emotions to be played upon, imo. You can decide to tame your emotions, and to abide in love and compassion, rather than to be taunted into something else. Lawfulness is about self-control, is it not? The precept to love one another is just taking that self-control to another level, where the individual chooses to control himself, instead of having society/authority dictate control, imo.

 

[Nick the Pilot]

Seattlegal, I think it is more of a balance of the two. Society often tells us we must stifle emotions that we really wish to express. This is a way for society to control us, by giving us unnecessary and harmful inhibitions. For those of us who have trouble expressing our emotions, we must fight against prohibitions to express our emotions at such times.

But on the other hand, as you are saying, there are also times when we must learn to be discreet and not 'go off the handle' and be uncontrollably emotional.

 

[Ben Masada]

Emotions certainly can be played upon. See Matt 24:12

12 Because lawlessness will multiply, the love of many will grow cold.
​

Spiritual freedom comes from not allowing your emotions to be played upon, imo. You can decide to tame your emotions, and to abide in love and compassion, rather than to be taunted into something else. Lawfulness is about self-control, is it not? The precept to love one another is just taking that self-control to another level, where the individual chooses to control himself, instead of having society/authority dictate control, imo.

To be played upon, to be exploited by, to be controlled with, etc, is all of the realm of commitment. Emotions acknowledges no law. In other words it is impossible to legislate upon emotions if there is no self-commitment to behave otherwise.

Love goes cold by more than one way, and not only by the multiplication of lawlessness. However, love does not come as a result of a decision priviously made. Compassion yes, but not love. One can be compassionate without having to love, although compassion is also an accident of emotion.

Lawfulness is more about culture and education than about self-control, unless one has degenerated into the practice of ill-using his freewill. Then, a commitment to self-control is needed to return to the original state.

There is absolutely no precept or command to love one another. The term is respect. I have said, it is impossible to commit oneself to love, while it is a must to commit oneself to respect. For instance, the commitment to love till death do us part is simply lip-service and rhetoric to sweet the ears of third parties at weddings. Love may rise with knowledge; and knowledge by living together. But then again, so can hatred too.
Ben

 

[seattlegal]

To be played upon, to be exploited by, to be controlled with, etc, is all of the realm of commitment. Emotions acknowledges no law. In other words it is impossible to legislate upon emotions if there is no self-commitment to behave otherwise.

Love goes cold by more than one way, and not only by the multiplication of lawlessness. However, love does not come as a result of a decision priviously made. Compassion yes, but not love. One can be compassionate without having to love, although compassion is also an accident of emotion.

Lawfulness is more about culture and education than about self-control, unless one has degenerated into the practice of ill-using his freewill. Then, a commitment to self-control is needed to return to the original state.

There is absolutely no precept or command to love one another. The term is respect. I have said, it is impossible to commit oneself to love, while it is a must to commit oneself to respect. For instance, the commitment to love till death do us part is simply lip-service and rhetoric to sweet the ears of third parties at weddings. Love may rise with knowledge; and knowledge by living together. But then again, so can hatred too.
Ben

John 13:34 ἐντολὴν καινὴν δίδωμι ὑμῖν ἵνα ἀγαπᾶτε ἀλλήλους καθὼς ἠγάπησα ὑμᾶς ἵνα καὶ ὑμεῖς ἀγαπᾶτε ἀλλήλους​

entolē

1) an order, command, charge, precept, injunction
a) that which is prescribed to one by reason of his office
2) a commandment
a) a prescribed rule in accordance with which a thing is done
1) a precept relating to lineage, of the Mosaic precept concerning the priesthood
2) ethically used of the commandments in the Mosaic law or Jewish tradition​

agapaō

1) of persons
a) to welcome, to entertain, to be fond of, to love dearly
2) of things
a) to be well pleased, to be contented at or with a thing
​

 

[Ben Masada]

John 13:34 ἐντολὴν καινὴν δίδωμι ὑμῖν ἵνα ἀγαπᾶτε ἀλλήλους καθὼς ἠγάπησα ὑμᾶς ἵνα καὶ ὑμεῖς ἀγαπᾶτε ἀλλήλους
​

entolē

1) an order, command, charge, precept, injunction
a) that which is prescribed to one by reason of his office
2) a commandment
a) a prescribed rule in accordance with which a thing is done
1) a precept relating to lineage, of the Mosaic precept concerning the priesthood
2) ethically used of the commandments in the Mosaic law or Jewish tradition
​

agapaō

1) of persons
a) to welcome, to entertain, to be fond of, to love dearly
2) of things
a) to be well pleased, to be contented at or with a thing
​

First of all, I am not versed in Greek. Then, I take it that you are not too serious. Don't you at least read some Philosophy?
Ben

 

[seattlegal]

First of all, I am not versed in Greek. Then, I take it that you are not too serious. Don't you at least read some Philosophy?
Ben

Let's start here:

To be played upon, to be exploited by, to be controlled with, etc, is all of the realm of commitment. Emotions acknowledges no law. In other words it is impossible to legislate upon emotions if there is no self-commitment to behave otherwise.

This precept would then involve self-commitment then, no? That is exactly what freedom takes!

There is absolutely no precept or command to love one another. The term is respect. I have said, it is impossible to commit oneself to love, while it is a must to commit oneself to respect. For instance, the commitment to love till death do us part is simply lip-service and rhetoric to sweet the ears of third parties at weddings. Love may rise with knowledge; and knowledge by living together. But then again, so can hatred too.
Ben

You will notice that Jesus did say that it was a new commandment. However, it really isn't new. He was introducing dharma/dhamma/maat/alethia into the teachings as a means by which to escape hell.

Here are some comparisons:
Luke 6

Jesus said:

27 "But I say to you who listen: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, 28 bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you. 29 If anyone hits you on the cheek, offer the other also. And if anyone takes away your coat, don't hold back your shirt either. 30 Give to everyone who asks from you, and from one who takes away your things, don't ask for them back. 31 Just as you want others to do for you, do the same for them. 32 If you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? Even sinners love those who love them. 33 If you do [what is] good to those who are good to you, what credit is that to you? Even sinners do that. 34 And if you lend to those from whom you expect to receive, what credit is that to you? Even sinners lend to sinners to be repaid in full. 35 But love your enemies, do [what is] good, and lend, expecting nothing in return. Then your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High. For He is gracious to the ungrateful and evil. 36 Be merciful, just as your Father also is merciful.​

to this:

Dhammapada 1:1-6

1. Mind precedes all mental states. Mind is their chief; they are all mind-wrought. If with an impure mind a person speaks or acts suffering follows him like the wheel that follows the foot of the ox.
2. Mind precedes all mental states. Mind is their chief; they are all mind-wrought. If with a pure mind a person speaks or acts happiness follows him like his never-departing shadow.
3. "He abused me, he struck me, he overpowered me, he robbed me." Those who harbor such thoughts do not still their hatred.
4. "He abused me, he struck me, he overpowered me, he robbed me." Those who do not harbor such thoughts still their hatred.
5. Hatred is never appeased by hatred in this world. By non-hatred alone is hatred appeased. This is a law eternal. {Pali source reads "dhammo sanantano," aka santana dharma--sg}

6. There are those who do not realize that one day we all must die. But those who do realize this settle their quarrels.​

Christianity is full of admonishments to "make your mind over," and to "put on the new personality." It also speaks about the "Spirit of Truth" and the "Law of Freedom," and of taming the emotions, just as the older concepts of dharma/dhamma/maat do.

You can choose to take me seriously or not.

 

[Nick the Pilot]

Seattlegal,

I'm glad to see you comparing Buddha's and Jesus' teachings. The way I see it, their original teachings were identical.

 

[seattlegal]

Seattlegal,

I'm glad to see you comparing Buddha's and Jesus' teachings. The way I see it, their original teachings were identical.

http://www.interfaith.org/forum/comparing-the-messages-in-matthew-10222.html

 

[Nick the Pilot]

SG,

Fascinating! In your other thread, you bring up Bono's (U2) thoughts on grace and karma. I am convinced that Jesus originally taught the idea of karma, and that the idea of the forgiveness of sin was mistakenly added to Jesus' teachings after Jesus died.

 

[seattlegal]

SG,

Fascinating! In your other thread, you bring up Bono's (U2) thoughts on grace and karma. I am convinced that Jesus originally taught the idea of karma, and that the idea of the forgiveness of sin was mistakenly added to Jesus' teachings after Jesus died.

Nick, read lines 3-4 of the Dhammapada above.

 

[Nick the Pilot]

SG,

If you are referring to

3. "He abused me, he struck me, he overpowered me, he robbed me." Those who harbor such thoughts do not still their hatred.
4. "He abused me, he struck me, he overpowered me, he robbed me." Those who do not harbor such thoughts still their hatred.

I'm not sure what you mean.

 

[seattlegal]

SG,

If you are referring to

3. "He abused me, he struck me, he overpowered me, he robbed me." Those who harbor such thoughts do not still their hatred.
4. "He abused me, he struck me, he overpowered me, he robbed me." Those who do not harbor such thoughts still their hatred.

I'm not sure what you mean.

That's forgiveness. If you take lines 1-6 together, karma resides in the mind. Purify the mind, and there's nothing left to keep you in hell except the compassion to help other suffering beings, and you transform hell. (keeping still)