I Am That I Am

[Ben Masada]

I think the Christian first needs to learn to love themselves, few do in my experience. They are trying to share that which they do not have, how can it work?

Let me try once more. I think that the problem is that I am not being accurate with my question. Never mind this time what or how Christians convey the message of love. How do you understand the concept of loving another as one loves himself?
Ben

 

[Lunitik]

Let me try once more. I think that the problem is that I am not being accurate with my question. Never mind this time what or how Christians convey the message of love. How do you understand the concept of loving another as one loves himself?
Ben

This I answered, but you have not seen it.

The other is me.

 

[donnann]

This I answered, but you have not seen it.

The other is me.

I believe the qualites that we possess that are of god makes us the I AM. Its our true selves . Any qualites that are not of god we possess are false and not our true selves anyway.

 

[Lunitik]

I believe the qualites that we possess that are of god makes us the I AM. Its our true selves . Any qualites that are not of god we possess are false and not our true selves anyway.

Can any quality not be of God?

Note that I define God as that oneness, not as the opposite of the devil.

All emanates from one source, and that source is always in balance in manifestation that it can remain perfect outside manifestation - all arises form one.

 

[donnann]

Can any quality not be of God?

Note that I define God as that oneness, not as the opposite of the devil.

All emanates from one source, and that source is always in balance in manifestation that it can remain perfect outside manifestation - all arises form one.

I think there are qualities not of god. I dont see god as doing things that are bad. I dont however believe in the devil as in some evil entity out to harm people. I simply see it as a force that separates things not of god so that god can unite things properly.

 

[Lunitik]

I think there are qualities not of god. I dont see god as doing things that are bad. I dont however believe in the devil as in some evil entity out to harm people. I simply see it as a force that separates things not of god so that god can unite things properly.

For me, if you drop the devil, you must drop God, they are shadows of each other and maintaining God without the devil is dangerous because now people become the devils, you will judge many based on this. The devil is a mechanism for forgiving men that aren't doing what is godly, a way to still see they are basically good.

What I call God is the source of all things, scientifically speaking it is the very energy that all things are formed through, but energy doesn't choose how it is used, it simply offers itself to be used - it is absolutely neutral, and in this is its perfection.

I do not believe God is a particular entity any more than you believe the devil is.

 

[donnann]

For me, if you drop the devil, you must drop God, they are shadows of each other and maintaining God without the devil is dangerous because now people become the devils, you will judge many based on this. The devil is a mechanism for forgiving men that aren't doing what is godly, a way to still see they are basically good.

What I call God is the source of all things, scientifically speaking it is the very energy that all things are formed through, but energy doesn't choose how it is used, it simply offers itself to be used - it is absolutely neutral, and in this is its perfection.

I do not believe God is a particular entity any more than you believe the devil is.

I just look at people doing bad things as having some kind of mental problem not as being the devil.

 

[Lunitik]

I just look at people doing bad things as having some kind of mental problem not as being the devil.

The problem is that their 'bad' action is defined by you, by your scriptures, you have not looked at WHY this person is doing this. The greatest crime is to not try to ensure your survival, it is simply disrespectful to life that you do not even take care of it. Society forces many things on people that they would never want to do ordinarily, no child grows up dreaming about being a criminal for instance, but to retain survival they have had to do this deed. How can you judge him for it? I would call the one that judges more sick than the one protecting his life by any means.

You are condemning the symptom and ignoring the illness.

I say society is basically diseased, you call the victim of it mentally ill. Dealing with this victim though, there will be more like him because the cause of his deed still exists. There is more research into the cause, this is far better, but this is the reason America has more criminals than China, despite having 1/4 the population - the West only looks at the surface issues.

 

[donnann]

The problem is that their 'bad' action is defined by you, by your scriptures, you have not looked at WHY this person is doing this. The greatest crime is to not try to ensure your survival, it is simply disrespectful to life that you do not even take care of it. Society forces many things on people that they would never want to do ordinarily, no child grows up dreaming about being a criminal for instance, but to retain survival they have had to do this deed. How can you judge him for it? I would call the one that judges more sick than the one protecting his life by any means.

You are condemning the symptom and ignoring the illness.

I say society is basically diseased, you call the victim of it mentally ill. Dealing with this victim though, there will be more like him because the cause of his deed still exists.

I agree. I think there is a cure for it things like love compassion ect is the cure. Hopefully the cure will spread some day, then we will live in a better world.

 

[Lunitik]

I agree. I think there is a cure for it things like love compassion ect is the cure. Hopefully the cure will spread some day, then we will live in a better world.

Yes, but love is not taught, currently our education systems are about bringing out greed instead. Education means "to bring out", it is the basic reason for all the problems, we need to infuse more about enlightened teachings with the goal to open more heart chakras in our youth.

This would create a far more beautiful world, a genuine cure for our ugliness.

 

[donnann]

Yes, but love is not taught, currently our education systems are about bringing out greed instead. Education means "to bring out", it is the basic reason for all the problems, we need to infuse more about enlightened teachings with the goal to open more heart chakras in our youth.

This would create a far more beautiful world, a genuine cure for our ugliness.

Definately. Thats why there is such a bullying problem in schools.

 

[Ben Masada]

This I answered, but you have not seen it.

The other is me.

I thought I was the one not using accuracy. I do not understand what you mean; you seem to be too cautious to give a clear answer.
Ben

 

[radarmark]

It seems strang that someone so dedicated to unity and oneness would even metaphorically state "if you drop G!d, you must drop the devil". This is really a hard core dualist outlook.

 

[Ben Masada]

It seems strang that someone so dedicated to unity and oneness would even metaphorically state "if you drop G!d, you must drop the devil". This is really a hard core dualist outlook.

IMHO, the devil does not exist. God is absolutely One in the universe and out of it, so to speak. Devil, according to Judaism, is only a complex to illustrate the evil inclination in man which has developed as a result of the ill-use of his firee will.
Ben

 

[Lunitik]

I thought I was the one not using accuracy. I do not understand what you mean; you seem to be too cautious to give a clear answer.
Ben

I am not sure how I can be more accurate?

I have been absolutely uncautious in this statement, I have been as direct as possible. My experience is that of oneness, I do not not see anything which is other to me.

As you care for your arms or legs if they become injured, so I care for other expressions of the absolute in manifest reality.

 

[Lunitik]

It seems strang that someone so dedicated to unity and oneness would even metaphorically state "if you drop G!d, you must drop the devil". This is really a hard core dualist outlook.

God and devil are two sides of one coin, how is it dualistic to drop both ideas?

To encounter absolute unity, all distinctions must drop, all ideas, all concepts, all notions about the world. The play of opposites is the big one, and this the whole basis for Buddha's Middle Way - you have to walk the tight rope between all extremes, the narrow path is thinner than the blade of the sharpest sword.

Yet, if you pursue God and avoid the devil, how can you find true unity? You are for half the world, and against the other half, you are dividing reality. You must find that experience which is absolutely individual - where no division exists at all.

This removal of all division, this absolute individualization of existence is enlightenment.

Every concept in your mind is just another fence keeping you from it.

 

[Lunitik]

IMHO, the devil does not exist. God is absolutely One in the universe and out of it, so to speak. Devil, according to Judaism, is only a complex to illustrate the evil inclination in man which has developed as a result of the ill-use of his firee will.
Ben

This notion of God being absolutely One, this is my reality as well. It is strange you cannot understand my statements in this thread if you believe in the oneness of God, you must divide him somewhere...

If I had to say what evil is, I would say it is the refusal of man to surrender to oneness, his constant need to prove the validity of his separateness. Yet, as God is the personification of the experience of oneness, so the devil is the personification of distinction.

Both remain as ideas though, you have to encounter their truth for yourself.

 

[Bhaktajan II]

dedicated to unity and oneness ​

I Am That I Am ---spake the personage of Godhead.

I Am Godhead That Godhead I Am ---spake the personage of Godhead.
IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII

I have learnt that "Negation" is a mode of response within the Advaitist school of hindu metaphysics. IOW, catagorically speaking, the extent of avaita logistics is of course the "neti-neti" exercise ---yet without "the Positive" . . .

BTW, hindu metaphysics is about 'riding the crest' rather then escaping toward salvation.
Contrarily, in Buddhism, IMHO, nirvana is a concerted effort toward total-renunciation ---so as to avoid Samsara ---Why? Because a gentleman does stay in "maya"; ergo, the path to nirvana ensues.

Hindu metaphysics, similarly as ayur-veda is intended to do, is meant to explore & experiment and to travel the known world(s) ---ergo, mystic-yogic disciplines to develop "siddhis" . . . and of course, famously, to achieve higher births & even higher planetary systems of celestial abodes . . . or just too, schemes to appease demigods and/or demigogues both to garner everything from the finer to the supra-petty things in life inre: eating-comfort-sex-security.

But by saying, "Negate this and Negate That ---and every thing is one" equates to no more than a logical & endlessly repeated sentimental poetic musing.

IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII
To wit, Bhaktivedanta Swami (1896-1977) wrote:


In the Bhagavad-gita (10.2), the Absolute Personality of Godhead, states:

“Neither the hosts of demigods nor the great sages know My origin or opulences, for in every respect I am the source of the demigods and sages.”

Thus Krishna is the origin of the powers delegated to demigods, great sages and mystics. Although they are endowed with great powers, these powers are limited, and thus it is very difficult for them to know how Krishna Himself appears by His own internal potency in the form of a man.

Many philosophers and great rishis, or mystics, try to distinguish the Absolute from the relative by their tiny brain power. This can only help them reach the negative conception of the Absolute without realizing any positive trace of the Absolute. Definition of the Absolute by negation is not complete.

Such negative definitions lead one to create a concept of one’s own; thus one imagines that the Absolute must be formless and without qualities. Such negative qualities are simply the reversals of relative, material qualities and are therefore also relative.

By conceiving of the Absolute in this way, one can at the utmost reach the impersonal effulgence of God, known as Brahman, but one cannot make further progress to 'Bhagavan', aka, the Personality of Godhead.

Such mental speculators do not know that the Absolute Personality of Godhead is Krishna, that the impersonal Brahman is the glaring effulgence of His transcendental body, or that the Paramatma, the Supersoul, is His all-pervading plenary representation.

Nor do they know that Krishna has His eternal form with its transcendental qualities of eternal bliss and knowledge. The dependent demigods and great sages imperfectly consider Him to be a powerful demigod, and they consider the Brahman effulgence to be the Absolute Truth.

 

[Lunitik]

I Am That I Am ---spake the personage of Godhead.

Investigate in yourself:

Who is it that says "I am" in you?

What is the nature of the awareness which asserts it is?

These are very important questions.

 

[radarmark]

God and devil are two sides of one coin, how is it dualistic to drop both ideas?

If one takes G!d as the experience of absolute unity, as that which is Beyond, as everything, then there is no, can be no devil because nothing is outside G!d. H! can have no opposite. This is traditional view of every major religion I know of (Abrahamic, Vedic, Jainic, Buddhic, Daoic).

By postulating a "second side" to unity, it is you that are creating a false duality. Get it? If G!d is the unity and everything how can there be anything else? Not using G!d in this way is a rather quaint use of the term, related to the superstitions of the Medieval peasants.

To encounter absolute unity, all distinctions must drop, all ideas, all concepts, all notions about the world. The play of opposites is the big one, and this the whole basis for Buddha's Middle Way - you have to walk the tight rope between all extremes, the narrow path is thinner than the blade of the sharpest sword.

G!d is the unity, the Middle way. Don't accept that if you do not care to, but realize most civilized, sophisticated people do not call G!d what you are calling god (a tribal myth or deity).

Yet, if you pursue God and avoid the devil, how can you find true unity? You are for half the world, and against the other half, you are dividing reality. You must find that experience which is absolutely individual - where no division exists at all.

You use "G!d" in a dated way (see above).

This removal of all division, this absolute individualization of existence is enlightenment.

Every concept in your mind is just another fence keeping you from it.

This argument cuts both ways, your misconception of G!d and unity and its blatantly dualistic roots (look up Mani) are planks in your eye. The mote in mine is that I use "G!d" to indicate tathagathagarbha (one of many synonyms because "the Dao that can be told is not the Dao".