What is the essence of all religions?

[Lunitik]

Undirected love is the only kind of love which can grow infinitely, for it is the very directing of it which makes it limited. This is hard for most to understand...

Directing at yourself, at family, at friends, you do not see that it is a limitation of your love. Your necessity for privacy, you cannot see that it is a closing of your love, a killing of your love. You must allow love to penetrate you utterly, to such an extent that you are overflowing with love, now it doesn't matter where it spills, there is plenty left for those you currently cherish.

It is a widening of your net, but it will look like escapism at first, you are detaching from all you have ties to. Yet, you realize those you thought you were leaving are included in this new being, you can even love them more because you simply have more love available.

This, you somehow see as limiting?

 

[Etu Malku]

Jesus even pinpoints the hardest aspect of the personal will, the "I", to drop:

He says "if you do not hate your father, your mother, your brother and sister - indeed, unless you hate your own life - you cannot be my disciple".

Family are the first ties which tell us who we are, and from this stems our love for ourselves, our desire to remain alive as a distinct being, and it is the foundation of all conceptions. Jesus says you are not really his follower if you still value these things above truth, if you are unwilling to sacrifice even your own life.

Yet, the reward is abundant, unimaginable springs of life flowing through you, you only have to overcome your limited state which is comfortable for you.

Ahh, so the REAL essence behind religion is Hate and Reward?
Relinquishing One's Self for that of another's?
We call them Sheeple.

 

[Lunitik]

Ahh, so the REAL essence behind religion is Hate and Reward?
Relinquishing One's Self for that of another's?
We call them Sheeple.

No, you have missed the meaning of Jesus' words.

You know I am not Christian, I have used Jesus' words for a particular reason: many here are Christian. I have to agree that his particular phrasing is disgusting, but the premise is perfectly right.

All limitation is self-inflicted. We must let go of all conceptions which have contributed to this Lower Self which is our own creation. It seems to me it is somehow centered around the belief we are not worthy for something more, that we are somehow unable to absorb more life. At the very peak of this absorption is the realization of the Higher Self, you are simply more alive, more celebratory.

As I have said previously, there are two ways to this end - Jesus has given the negative in this example, and through most of his teachings. Buddha goes in the same direction, it is to come to absolute nothingness, to utterly destroy the ego that love can flower. The problem with Christianity is that in some places it wants to go one way, in others it wants to go in another, it results in cancelling itself out. Buddha is more clear, first arrive at nothingness, then encounter the flowers of it.

Schools like Hinduism and Sufism go the other way, and this is the way which I prefer because it is more scenic, more enjoyable. Here, love comes to such heights that you are dissolved in it eventually, you will likely prefer this method, although you would direct that love probably at yourself. For me it is better to direct it at life itself, existence itself, for now there is more ability for it to expand, but the inner world is equally expandable if we are willing to work at it... the premise is not different, simply a gratefulness that you exist at all, simply being thankful that your life is being supported, that you are there to experience all that is happening in this moment. Of course, Christianity brings this in as well, which is why I say it is a very confused faith.

At the peak, though, existence itself becomes your subjective experience, the entire universe cannot contain the love which is found, which is now filling you. Ultimately, the conclusion is always that love is all there is, now you simply are love.

 

[NiceCupOfTea]

Ahh, so the REAL essence behind religion is Hate and Reward?
Relinquishing One's Self for that of another's?
We call them Sheeple.

lol the essence of most religions is pretty lofty, however the reality is often quite different and the essence ends up being fear and opression and subservience.

and to add religion is also big business there is lots of money to be made.

 

[Etu Malku]

No, you have missed the meaning of Jesus' words.

You know I am not Christian, I have used Jesus' words for a particular reason: many here are Christian. I have to agree that his particular phrasing is disgusting, but the premise is perfectly right.

All limitation is self-inflicted. We must let go of all conceptions which have contributed to this Lower Self which is our own creation. It seems to me it is somehow centered around the belief we are not worthy for something more, that we are somehow unable to absorb more life.

At the very peak of this absorption is the realization of the Higher Self, you are simply more alive, more celebratory. As I have said previously, there are two ways to this end - Jesus has given the negative in this example, and through most of his teachings. Buddha goes in the same direction, it is to come to absolute nothingness, to utterly destroy the ego that love can flower. The problem with Christianity is that in some places it wants to go one way, in others it wants to go in another, it results in cancelling itself out. Buddha is more clear, first arrive at nothingness, then encounter the flowers of it.

Schools like Hinduism and Sufism go the other way, and this is the way which I prefer because it is more scenic, more enjoyable. Here, love comes to such heights that you are dissolved in it eventually, you will likely prefer this method, although you would direct that love probably at yourself. For me it is better to direct it at life itself, existence itself, for not there is more ability for it to expand, but the inner world is equally expandable if we are willing to work at it...

At the peak, existence itself becomes subjective experience, the entire universe cannot contain the love which is found. Ultimately, the conclusion is always that love is all there is.

We must let go of all conceptions which have contributed to this Lower Self which is our own creation.

We refer to this as Individuation, and One does not simply 'let go' of anything.
Like everything in your life, this is Work, effort and some people will just not make the effort or do the Great Work, they're not ready yet to take it on.

For the most part though . . . I was just stirring the pot a little, I got your explanation the first time, looked it up, and read about the interpretations.

As for directing love and compassion to myself, while that is true, it is not the entirety of it. Like Lucifer, we are compassionate for all mankind and seek Truths and expose Lies.

 

[seattlegal]

I would say Belief

LOL, so you agree with lunatik? Belief means to love.

from etymonline.com

belief (n.) late 12c., bileave, replacing O.E. geleafa "belief, faith," from W.Gmc. *ga-laubon "to hold dear, esteem, trust" (cf. O.S. gilobo, M.Du. gelove, O.H.G. giloubo, Ger. Glaube), from *galaub- "dear, esteemed," from intensive prefix *ga- + *leubh- "to care, desire, like, love" (see love (v.)). The prefix was altered on analogy of the verb believe. The distinction of the final consonant from that of believe developed 15c.​

 

[Lunitik]

Ultimately, the totality of love is only experienced when inner and outer are no more divided for you. Now objective and subjective has no meaning, yet objective focus is why God is taught. I prefer simply to say existence, but the premise is the same, it represents the outer, the objective. You currently confine yourself to subjective and inner experience, where others are something outer.

This is the fundamental concept to overcome, this results in Samadhi.

 

[Lunitik]

We refer to this as Individuation, and One does not simply 'let go' of anything.

Please see this stubbornness is the reason you still experience as the Lower Self. In fact, for me, there is no individual when the Lower Self remains, for its very nature is merely conceptual. It is the result of your surroundings, your influences, it is not intrinsic to you at all.

When you can let go of this fallacy, the Higher Self is realized. You do not make the distinction between ego and individual, but for me these words are exactly as Lower and Higher Self respectively. Ego must be dropped, must be overcome, must be defeated for the individual to arise. As long as you remain functioning from the ego, you will not achieve anything spiritually which you endeavor for.

This individual, this encounter with the indivisible truth of your being is the goal always. It is the ego which has caused the divides.

 

[radarmark]

SG, kudus! I wasn't going to mention that, it is very obscure (even for one who makes his living being obscure and obtuse). In the OHG "belief", "believe", "beloved" were probably all ga-laube (or so close they are indistinguishable).

 

[Lunitik]

Like everything in your life, this is Work, effort and some people will just not make the effort or do the Great Work, they're not ready yet to take it on.

This is also a common misconception, for attaining to the Higher Self is not work at all, in fact it is more difficult to maintain the Lower Self. Athletes and all sorts of creative people attain to states of the Higher Self almost by accident because they have become utterly involved in what they are doing, they are no longer identified with their conceptions of themselves or thinking about past and future - as an example, in sports it is called "being in the zone" - they have come utterly into the now.

The Higher Self is your intrinsic nature, it is only necessary to cleanse the cruft which is veiling it. This is why I say it is better to just let go of the cruft, it is more direct. Mostly, I think we are discussing the same though, I would just like to add that it is ALWAYS instantaneous, even if you work for years the actualization is faster than a clicking of the fingers. Seeing this, I prefer to point directly, although it will create more fear in some because it looks more drastic. I am not interested in those who are slaves to fear though, I am interested in the courageous ones.

You are perfectly right though, those who are filled with fear always look to others to give them some security, to console them. I can only feel sorry for them, although I understand how it has happened.

 

[Lunitik]

That state which is free from division, that I refer to as oneness.

It is pure love.

 

[Etu Malku]

LOL, so you agree with lunatik? Belief means to love.

from etymonline.com

belief (n.) late 12c., bileave, replacing O.E. geleafa "belief, faith," from W.Gmc. *ga-laubon "to hold dear, esteem, trust" (cf. O.S. gilobo, M.Du. gelove, O.H.G. giloubo, Ger. Glaube), from *galaub- "dear, esteemed," from intensive prefix *ga- + *leubh- "to care, desire, like, love" (see love (v.)). The prefix was altered on analogy of the verb believe. The distinction of the final consonant from that of believe developed 15c.​

I did?

 

[Etu Malku]

In Buddhism, it is expressed in the belief that there are cosmic laws that exist solely to process our "karma" and make it possible for us to "advance" in some fashion.

This is one of the most fundamental problems with religions -- pretty much all religions.

People are falsely taught that there is something in or above the universe that has picked them out for special protection and consideration. Our existence is a product of luck, not divine intervention, and any improvements we achieve will be due to our own hard work, not cosmic process or karma.

But what troubles me most about Buddhism is its implication that detachment from ordinary life is the surest route to salvation. Buddha's first step toward enlightenment was his abandonment of his wife and child. (Sound familiar to your Jesus hate?) It seems legitimate to ask whether a path that turns away from aspects of life as essential as sexuality and parenthood is truly spiritual.

The very concept of enlightenment begins to look anti-spiritual, it suggests that life is a problem that can be solved, and should be, escaped.
Buddhism holds that enlightenment makes you morally infallible--like the pope, but more so. 'Wrong' actions won't arise," he writes, "when a brain continues truly to express the self-nature intrinsic to its [transcendent] experiences."

Buddhism claims that perceiving yourself as in some sense unreal will make you happier and more compassionate.

When you embrace your essential selflessness, "guilt, shame, embarrassment, self-doubt, and fear of failure ebb away and you become, contrary to expectation, a better neighbor." But most people are distressed by sensations of unreality, which are quite common and can be induced by drugs, fatigue, trauma, and mental illness as well as by meditation.

I'm not picking on Buddhism, I actually see it as a lesser evil in the world's religions . . . you can replace the word with whatever Belief-System you want that attempts to annihilate the Ego.

 

[Lunitik]

Buddha does not state that some entity manages karma, and if he has then I must also disagree with him. Karma is as intrinsic as relativity in physics, for in reality they do not relate to anything different. Both express the results of a given event, it is just that man still hasn't accepted he is merely dense energy, not different from any other object, and that his thoughts and emotions are also energy firings which have ramifications - these are just subtle energy as apposed to dense, fundamentally there is no difference.

I too disagree with the Buddhists about escapism, yet it seems to go against Buddhas own teaching of the Middle Way. Again, I think it is more the fault of the interpretation than the teaching. As for him leaving his wife and child, it is because he has realized they too must die, that there is no meaning to these relationships because they are impermanent. It must be recalled that immediately following this, he has become very masochistic, he has brought himself almost to the brink of death through starvation and various yogas attempting to find truth. It is not this which has caused his enlightenment, these are the six years he has practiced without. Immediately following this, he has returned to his family but they have not accepted what he has become. Now he has shared his love with many seekers, but it seems he has not brought any of his family along with him.

This is the old way, that spirituality and materialism are apposed to one another, in reality they are simply another pair of opposites. Indeed, they are simply different aspects of a single energy which flows through all things, but this is the only path they have known back then. I am personally not concerned with spirituality because it is only half, although I am interested in meditation absolutely. Certainly, enlightenment makes you infallible in terms of virtue, for your every deed is an expression of love now. The statement is more about not judging the enlightened mans actions, for you will not understand him - you are still stuck in duality, right and wrong, moral and immoral. This is the very nature of compassion for me, and my joy and happiness, that I live undivided from existence, from views, from all.

Yes, many things which arise for the meditator are quite strange, although I would rather not discuss them because they will look insane if you are not familiar. The key is to always remember you are not the mind, that its interpretations are always false, and to simply accept whatsoever is occurring this moment.

Personally, I see Buddhism as outdated as any other religion, yet for me all have some intrinsic aspects which are invaluable and must not be dropped. The trouble arises when we see these truths and begin to cling even to nonsense assuming it must also be correct. From experience, the ego must die for the individual to arise though, this is not speculation, it is what I have personally encountered. I have realized the Higher Self though, I live as the Higher Self, while you remain as the Lower Self, thus there is a fundamental flaw to what you say while my words are confirmed by every mystic that has ever lived. Of course, the ego absolutely wants to survive, and you are identified with it, therein lies the problem...

I would suggest inquiring honestly about where the ego, where the "I" arises from, can you find that place? Is the "I" existential at all? What goes away if it is dropped? What is lost that you feel to protect? Is there anything, or are you simple as a seed which does not wish to break its shell so that it can flower? You do not have to answer this, simply try the exercise.

 

[Etu Malku]

Luciferianism in many ways is a religion of ego. Opposite to RHP religions, the LHP focuses on being our own gods. What Luciferianism is really about, is to shape the ego in a way, so it reflects the Inner Self to the best, so that there is as little differences as possible.
Focus gives us unique perspective; unique perspective causes us to expand beyond what we were. And ego is a tool with which we focus our nature into this world. So mature LHP process is not to give up on ego, also not to overly focus on ego, but to synchronize, expand ego to match our Higher Self as much as possible, so that it could realize our potential to the fullest, having at the same time strong root within life, because life, every aspect of it, is a spiritual journey and there is no reason not to enjoy every step of it!

In regards to your Opposites, the problem here is in the way you have misunderstood them.

Let me explain;
If you stood on the North Pole and walked to the South Pole would you be upside down? Of course not! From someone at the North Pole you are perceived as upside down and they upside down to you, but in reality this is not so, you both are merely polar extremes of the same thing, opposing forces.

 

[Lunitik]

Luciferianism in many ways is a religion of ego. Opposite to RHP religions, the LHP focuses on being our own gods. What Luciferianism is really about, is to shape the ego in a way, so it reflects the Inner Self to the best, so that there is as little differences as possible.
Focus gives us unique perspective; unique perspective causes us to expand beyond what we were. And ego is a tool with which we focus our nature into this world. So mature LHP process is not to give up on ego, also not to overly focus on ego, but to synchronize, expand ego to match our Higher Self as much as possible, so that it could realize our potential to the fullest, having at the same time strong root within life, because life, every aspect of it, is a spiritual journey and there is no reason not to enjoy every step of it!

I simply say that without first encountering the inner self, you are simply reaching in the dark. Yet, residing in the inner self is exactly the Higher Self, so it makes everything else utterly irrelevant.

The technique I present is to absolutely renounce the ego, nothing else. The ego needn't be shaped, for when you can simply drop it there is only the Higher Self remaining. Ego is your sense of separateness, I cannot imagine Luciferianism is for this, and indeed your own words do not seem to uphold separateness. Uniqueness must be absolute, but you are created unique, the ego is actually nothing but conformity, the particular mechanisms you have learned society accepts.

True individuality takes a lot of courage, it means to stand absolutely alone, to not longer limit yourself to the crowd. Yet it is not about avoiding the crowd, it is simply about not allowing the crowd to influence you. For me it is very gutless to flee the society, and your enlightenment is not worth much if it can be influenced at all.

I think this is where we differ though, for you ego represents who you are, for me ego represents the influence others have had over us. We both uphold individuality - although I do not know if this means non-divided for you - and we both uphold the intrinsic value and uniqueness of each human I think, and it is not much of a difference. You want to gradually mold yourself into an ideal sometime in the future, and I simply keep repeating to you that the only time is now. You are already the Higher Self if the Lower Self is no more there, there is only one Self in reality.

 

[Lunitik]

In regards to your Opposites, the problem here is in the way you have misunderstood them.

I have read your explanation, but understand it is merely a device to bring us to a state of oneness. Its purpose is to drop conceptions, it cleanses the mind absolutely and then asks what remains.

What remains is absolute reality, free from illusion. What is its quality? Undifferentiated or targeted love, a sense of oneness. Yet nothing is taken away, nothing is added, only the perception has changed, you see for the first time the power of belief - you realize you created the very limitation you have been striving to overcome.

My perception remains illuminated, I am constantly blissful and utterly happy, this is ultimately what we all are seeking. This allows me to see things as complimentary, I do not see opposites anymore. All is beautiful, all adds to the variety of life which we experience. If absolutely anything is removed, life itself becomes a little less interesting. For me, all is exactly perfect as it is.

Of course, as things arise, I will respond, I may even instigate some change myself, but it is no more to make things better, it is simply to participate in change. Change is the very character of manifestation, it is what permits experiencing at all. Yet instead of being involved in the mind, the emotions and the body, my perspective is moved back, I am the watcher of these things, they are distinct from my being... that state is unchanging, it is the cosmos which observes the chaos.

For me, this means I can enjoy more, for I am less concerned with any distractions which are offered, I become far more engrossed in the current activity.

 

[Etu Malku]

My perception remains illuminated, I am constantly blissful and utterly happy, this is ultimately what we all are seeking.

I would be very bored being in eternal bliss and happy, a balance of everything is important to me. Furthermore, achieving this while incarnated into a physical shell is impossible, so I don't believe you.
Then again you claim to be something you are not and that requires an initial investment in delusion.

 

[Bhaktajan II]

What is the essence of all religions?

Originally Posted by seattlegal

Originally Posted by Etu Malku
I would say Belief

LOL, so you agree with lunatik? Belief means to love.

http://www.interfaith.org/forum/what-is-the-essence-of-15244.html#post265048

Originally Posted by Lunitik
I would say that an attempt to convey the experience of oneness is the essence of all religions...

Originally Posted by Bhaktajan
http://www.interfaith.org/forum/what-is-the-essence-of-15244.html#post264998

There are two schools of philosophy in the Vedas of India, as the the "Goal of Liberation":

Two Schools of thought on the "Goal of Liberation" aka "Salvation" aka "Immortality" aka "Emancipation":

I) Nirvana - merge into the primevial source, thus, desolving all self & ego being.

II) Prema Bhakti - Loving devotional interpersonal audience with God.

One God = An Absolute Existing Persona.

Absolute entities require absolute ettiquette and pre-requisite skills and devote desires.

 

[Lunitik]

I would be very bored being in eternal bliss and happy, a balance of everything is important to me. Furthermore, achieving this while incarnated into a physical shell is impossible, so I don't believe you.
Then again you claim to be something you are not and that requires an initial investment in delusion.

You'd think so, yet every moment is utterly fresh, for constantly the past is dropped, constantly you find yourself again utterly in the moment. Why do you believe you must die for these things to be a reality though? Do you not understand there is only a difference of density between what you are now and what you will be ultimately after death? This body permits you to participate directly in existence, yet what you are is never changed.

Yet, in a way you must die, the ego must be annihilated and if you cling a great deal to it you will certainly feel you are dying when you come close to realization. It is absolutely absurd to consider there any intrinsic difference between physical and spiritual realities though - except that the subtle reality cannot influence the physical reality.

Ultimately, everything is the play of energy.