What is the essence of all religions?

[Lunitik]

What to say of the awakened state?

Nothing is taken away and nothing is added, you simply no longer veil it in fallacy.

You enjoy the forms, you play with them, in them... ultimately you realize now you are the formless though. The formless residing in form for a time out of its own choice, why will you complain, why will you avoid?

Your experience is what you make it, you will only complain and avoid because you do not see it is your own doing. You will allow another to restrict your freedoms because you want to become what you already actually are, it is strange. You study what is already the case, trying to become that which you are, it is absurd.

Life is such a simple thing, but limited to mind you will make it complicated.

Life is simply now, you are it, so be it.

 

[Lunitik]

Oneness, love, bliss, heaven, these are all words those who encounter truth try to use to describe it to others.

The words are utterly irrelevant, impotent, but the foolish cling to them.

Encounter life itself, this is the message of the religions.

What could be simpler, yet has anything been speculated upon more?

This is the folly of the mind.

Life is the flow of energy, everything arises in it, but remains of it.

Our perceptions allow us to experience it in a certain way that we might function, we have called it God, Tao, Brahman, Omkar, Yehweh, the names are endless.

All is just energy, yet we are identified with the waves in it...

Religions simply call us to recognize this, but we have made it fantastical, imaginations have taken hold on it.

Many in the world today are just trying to bring people back to the simple fact.

You are energy.

 

[Lunitik]

Where has the energy come from? How has it come to be?

These are the true mysteries.

You can only be grateful that it is.

 

[Lunitik]

What we call life is merely an identification of the energy with a particular stream, death is the ceasing of that. Science proclaims that energy cannot be added or taken away from existence, yet you are exactly an expression of that energy, a particular form of it.

All experiences are events this energy stream encounters, mind and emotions are another stream flowing through the central identified stream, they are not actually of you.

This identification with a particular stream I call ego, and dropping it you come into tune with the totality of energy around you. This has many benefits, but chief among them is absolute freedom, aware of what you are you are no longer a victim of events, you are the conductor.

Christians express this is 'co-creator', others call this occult powers, it is simply to decentralize your awareness and see that as your awareness can dictate to the body and mind, so it has power over everything else...

All is simply energy, you are an instance of awareness in it, of it. Encountering that energy directly though, awareness itself drops, so you cannot be just the awareness - even in sleep, other than brief dreams you are basically unaware, unconscious, since these are phenomena as well they cannot be you.

You are the energy itself.

 

[Lunitik]

Buddha's methods of observing phenomena merely show you are not them.

Teachings about Karma simply instruct you to be careful of what you are creating in the world.

Reincarnation is exactly that energy can only change forms, your desires remain fixated on something physical, so your energy enters another physical form. Note it is not the whole you, for there is no such thing, it is the energy your awareness has directed through desire. To stop the cycle of returning, you must drop the desires.

Incarnation, awakening, avatar, enlightened, these reference the pure nature of one who realizes himself to be the energy - yet in some way he is still delusional, because he says it is God, he has simply become sensitive to the natural flows of energy.

Meditation is an attempt to drop all identification that the central energy is recognized.

Prayer is a way to acknowledge the stream, to recognize you are powerless to it, that you accept its will or flow. Taking on the Holy Spirit for instance means you have lost yourself to the current, you have recognized yourself as just another wave in the energy.

Deeper than this, your recognition allows you to have a say in the flow of energy, even outside the body, but without controlling it internally how can you possibly control it outwardly? This is what yoga and the like try to show. Punishing the dense energy as the ascetics do, it is a quite foolish attempt towards dissociation with the body, I cannot condone this but it is to the same end.

Everything is towards finding out you are the energy, and the responsibility that entails. This is where morals and ethics arise, but knowing the other is just another happening in the energy, why will you be against it? You would rather bless its particular stream, try to help in any way to remove obstacles to make its path easier.

Some also preach veganism or vegetarianism, it is because these things do not kill the life which has provided it, but with various weaknesses because it is difficult to manage or because people do not see certain things as being alive. For me, provided you do not kill anything yourself, you should simply honor this which has given its energy to you - whether plant or seed or fruit, animal or fish, doesn't matter.

Afterlife is something based on desire, it is a consolation because you don't want to ever drop your identifications and see what you are. It is sheer childishness to me, just petty. Ultimately, we are the energy itself, aware as something distinct or dissolved back into it utterly makes no difference. What we are has not been added at our birth, and cannot be taken away on our death, it simply changes form but still it is there. This is the intent of words about immortality.

If we can understand spiritual words through scientific understandings things become quite a lot clearer, there is less room for idol imagination. Trying this from the other perspective though maintains our limited state, it is because science has not gone as deeply as the spiritual people but it is working its way towards it - it is simply much younger but it is growing up fast. How can they be fundamentally different though? They are both inquiries into existence, and a reporting of what they find. Using spiritual terminology confuses people, makes them dream of crazy things, eventually they must meet though - truth is absolute no matter how you approach it.

Man is coming towards this as a whole, but only the individual can encounter it directly. It only takes a little intelligence to connect the dots, the problem is most remain antagonistic, it remains science vs religion, man basically seems to enjoy dispute.

Stop trying to divide everything and see whether they can fit together.

This is the only way to find the individual.

 

[Lunitik]

Do not concentrate on the details, look instead at anything related to a rationale. Gradually, you see they are each coming from the same perspective, you begin to see that only the expression differs - and it must, because to exist at all requires some intrinsic uniqueness.

Do not differentiate either between physical and spiritual, then you see that what is discussed about objects is the same for subjective observations in an essential way. Existence itself can now become as your scripture, for it shows all you need to know.

Gradually a clear painting arises, you become something beautiful.

 

[Lunitik]

YET, when you see all is pointing towards the same thing, where is the validity of a view? I have said people seem to enjoy dispute, did you wonder why when you read that? It is because the "I" stands on views, it is basically an attempt to prove it is the case, somehow the dispute - whether you win or lose - validates your distinction.

This scientific notion of energy, I like it because science cannot define energy yet it does not dispute it. We all think we have a basic notion of what energy is, but actually we are only probably thinking of its different states, not energy itself. There is no mass to energy, you cannot point and say "here there is no energy" because you would have to point at a place that doesn't exist - space is upheld by its fullness of energy, every atom in the atmosphere is just energy.

Now, it becomes absolutely clear everything is just a particular configuration of energy, a particular direction of energy, now can you say whether this or that is better? You can only say this is arising now, but to judge it you are bringing mind in, you are again trying to validate your distinction. Even things as a society we have agreed are disgusting - rape, murder - they are still just energy affecting energy, and when we acknowledge it already it has passed, so the view is pointless. The worst human actions are basically centered in a need to control, a need to validate and uphold distinction, it is the basic psychology behind these actions.

If all can realize they are upholding something that actually isn't real at all, just an idea, if people can really accept and even realize this directly that there is nothing like a distinct self, suddenly trying to validate the self ceases as well - now crime cannot happen, for instance.

I have said this is an altered state, but it is only this because it is different to how you usually perceive. You have spent your life so far upholding these alterations to consciousness which society has enforced. In actuality, it is to return to the natural state though, and all it takes is lack of desire, lack of a need to validate your existence in some way.

You exist, why the need to validate it? Allow each moment to be a celebration of it!

 

[Lunitik]

What we consider good and bad, both are based on the same desire to validate this notion of being distinct. You have decided or agreed on these things, so you begin identifying with them - does this change anything at all in the world, this simple view?

How about beliefs, certainly it'll change your perspective, but does it fundamentally change anything? It is the same acceptance of a view, in the original utterance it was meaningful perhaps, but it has done nothing for you - just another view clouding perception.

Being for or against anything is utterly pointless because it changes nothing, it only brings you further from reality. Eventually you must come to a point where you simply drop it all, and I go on saying this. In dropping every view you uphold, you are rewarded directly by existence itself, you get a glimpse of reality. Then you start picking things back up, gradually it fades again.

You must eventually come to a state free from thoughts, because thoughts are creating your false reality, you are coloring existence the way you want to perceive it. Thoughts can arise, things can happen, but you must not become entangled in any of it because it will bring you away from reality. Mind is my favorite toy to play with when I'm bored, but it is not something I identify with, this is a difference. Its offerings about reality, I reject them all because I am already looking at the real - its take on it is irrelevant. Being a toy, I can put it away when I'm not using it and be fine, most people leave it on all day and even in sleep!

Without veiling reality every second, there is much energy that becomes free to utilize in other ways, it becomes happiness and bliss naturally. Still, becoming identified with these is not good, but it doesn't mean you can't enjoy it. We have come into the world to experience, to enjoy what it offers. Do not let anyone tell you that you are here for something else.

It is nice to enjoy friends and family, it is beautiful to share. Too many have become dependent on the other though, they cannot enjoy their aloneness, they become uneasy and try to avoid any time which is just blank. It is because there is nothing there to uphold your false notions, they just begin to crumble.

Enlightenment is the absolute absence of notions - whether true or false, because truth does not need the support of an idea, only fallacy does.

 

[Lunitik]

It doesn't mean you should fight with the mind though, just don't become involved with it. Things can arise, but if they are arising without your say so, just observe they are there. It is like a dog, it will think you are playing with it if you try too hard to stop it from being rowdy, but if you give no attention it simply stops. It doesn't mean you can't play with the dog, but you have to teach it when it is ok. There are shows on TV about how to make a dog relaxed, but few even realize their mind is just like those dogs.

It is why we seem to like TV so much though, it gives our minds a rest - although even in this, some people just cannot be silent. Still, this is more a distraction though, it remains an occupation. It is fine as entertainment, but you have to see whether it is just another avoidance.

 

[ResistETIntervention]

Love is a yes to whatever arises, hate is a persistent no.

Should you remain in a pacified state and say yes to whatever arises?

Is that really love or a loss of your power of discernment and recognition?

 

[ResistETIntervention]

A few blind men were standing at different parts of an elephant: by its trunk, by its tail, by one of its tusks, by one of its ears, by one of its feet, and by its side. They were told to describe the elephant, and they described it correctly as they perceived it, and yet all incorrectly as they were unable to see it in its entirety.

 

[Lunitik]

Should you remain in a pacified state and say yes to whatever arises?

Is that really love or a loss of your power of discernment and recognition?

You should be able to act spontaneously in the moment...

I have said hate is a persistent no, I have also said hate is an attempt to create distance between yourself and something else. I would say hate is more passive than love, saying yes means you are facing the situation directly.

I do not see how a no can be a valid discernment, it is simply an avoidance, an inability to rightly recognize anything about the situation - you are just running from it.

I see this often when addressing Christians, for instance I could see a man on the bus was reading a Bible, yet he started aggressively verbally attacking a female passenger on the bus. I approached him respectfully, and his immediate response was "here comes a devil, watch out" - I only sought to remind him that the Bible informs us to love even the enemy, and that without love you cannot know God according to the Bible, because God is love.

For me, his approach was an avoidance which was fueled by hatred, he wanted to create a Christian vs other environment where no dialog is possible.

 

[Lunitik]

A few blind men were standing at different parts of an elephant: by its trunk, by its tail, by one of its tusks, by one of its ears, by one of its feet, and by its side. They were told to describe the elephant, and they described it correctly as they perceived it, and yet all incorrectly as they were unable to see it in its entirety.

Each have argued because they have raised a "no", they are insisting they alone are correct, where if they had a basic "yes", they could have combined each perspective and discovered the whole picture.

 

[Lunitik]

Love is basically an openness.

Hate is to be closed.

 

[Bhaktajan II]

All forms of meditation are a form of trance induction.

I have no idea what kinds of things you have been exposed to and what Kind of "Meditator Instructors" you have taken instruction from.

NASCAR Drivers are NOT in a form of trance.

Factory Assemby workers are NOT in a form of trance.

The Outfielder in a game of American Baseball sees a Pop Fly heading toward him and he is NOT in a form of trance.

The Airplane Pilot is NOT in a form of trance.

The swordsman on guard is NOT in a form of trance.

They are all in the zone with focused attention.

Bad students and lay-abouts are infamous as un-employable ---IMO, because their degree of daily "meditation" extends to the length of the pleasure appetites.

Meditation is about shutting your mouth ---not your awareness NOR consciousness ---its about being "Present in the Moment".

Sure, being in Sattva-guna 24/7 appears as other worldly and aloofness with acestic like preferences when meditation is done in monastic settings ---otherwise, it is good for every Zen Master, so it's good enough for all other people of Action.

 

[Lunitik]

I have no idea what kinds of things you have been exposed to and what Kind of "Meditator Instructors" you have taken instruction from.

NASCAR Drivers are NOT in a form of trance.

Factory Assemby workers are NOT in a form of trance.

The Outfielder in a game of American Baseball sees a Pop Fly heading toward him and he is NOT in a form of trance.

The Airplane Pilot is NOT in a form of trance.

The swordsman on guard is NOT in a form of trance.

They are all in the zone with focused attention.

Bad students and lay-abouts are infamous as un-employable ---IMO, because their degree of daily "meditation" extends to the length of the pleasure appetites.

Meditation is about shutting your mouth ---not your awareness NOR consciousness ---its about being "Present in the Moment".

Sure, being in Sattva-guna 24/7 appears as other worldly and aloofness with acestic like preferences when meditation is done in monastic settings ---otherwise, it is good for every Zen Master, so it's good enough for all other people of Action.

Your examples aren't the best for the simple reason that many of them you can say they have become mechanical, many are not indicative of what meditation is because it is not necessarily spontaneous.

We agree here though, overall, trance is - according to the dictionary - a division of consciousness, it says to half it. Meditation is the exact opposite, it is to multiply awareness, to bring it utterly into this moment without any distractions or notions at all.

I am surprised you have called it Zen though, since this is more affiliated with Buddhism, although it means the same as the Hindu Dhyan. For me, this is the true religious experience, free from all scriptures. It brings one to direct encountering with truth, and the state actually arises from dropping all information which has been studied.

I go on saying beliefs are bad for this very reason, they flavor reality, Zen is to see things without flavoring anything - seems easy, but few accomplish it.

 

[Etu Malku]

I have no idea what kinds of things you have been exposed to and what Kind of "Meditator Instructors" you have taken instruction from.

NASCAR Drivers are NOT in a form of trance.

Factory Assemby workers are NOT in a form of trance.

The Outfielder in a game of American Baseball sees a Pop Fly heading toward him and he is NOT in a form of trance.

The Airplane Pilot is NOT in a form of trance.

The swordsman on guard is NOT in a form of trance.

They are all in the zone with focused attention.

Bad students and lay-abouts are infamous as un-employable ---IMO, because their degree of daily "meditation" extends to the length of the pleasure appetites.

Meditation is about shutting your mouth ---not your awareness NOR consciousness ---its about being "Present in the Moment".

Sure, being in Sattva-guna 24/7 appears as other worldly and aloofness with acestic like preferences when meditation is done in monastic settings ---otherwise, it is good for every Zen Master, so it's good enough for all other people of Action.

You obviously haven't a clue as to what is and isn't a form of trance and what it's benefits and abuses are.
Who is talking about all those inane examples you brought up?
Carrots are not in a trance, the milkman is neither.
When I pour a little cream in my oatmeal I am not in a trance . . . are you in a trance?

Your focused attention concerning your examples in most cases is called FLOW.

There are many many forms of meditation and some of them use extreme focused attention and being in the NOW, being still is just one of them.

Did you even bother to read anything I posted about this.
Oh, I'm 51 . . . been meditating since I was in high school.

 

[Lunitik]

I'm 51 . . . been meditating since I was in high school.

Yet you have not grown much beyond High School, because you are still content to dispute constantly, for no good reason at all.

You have certain notions which you refuse to let go, you have certain terminologies which you refuse to accept are just another way to say the same thing. Thing is, the dictionary absolutely disagrees with you, as it disagrees with me when I discuss meditation. The West seems content to call both a mental exercise, but meditation is mental rest.

You have said to be in the now, and seem to liken it to sitting doing nothing. This is absolutely wrong, what they are practicing when they sit down to meditate, who knows what they think they are accomplishing? In reality, it is a training to learn how to be in the now, but it is not Zen.

Zen is to be total in the present moment, that's all, it is to bring your total energy and attention to exactly what is happening now. Gradually, less and less energy is wasted defining the experience in the mind, and so it is used in the experience itself - now your senses will be heightened, this sort of thing.

I am puzzled that you say you have been meditating since High School, so for 33 years you have been doing something absurd, you still have not gotten the knack apparently because in true meditation there is no doer. It is strange, then, that you feel you can talk on it, declaring it something you're an expert on. You have perhaps come across experiences and tried hard to define them in the mind, you have not had the nerve to go even deeper, to continue engaging without conclusions. For me, it is a sad thing, but it explains many of your statements on this site...

Do not try to understand with the head, you will go insane or run back to your identifications seeing them as secure - with the former you have destroyed yourself, become lost in the mind instead of free from it; in the latter you have simply wasted your time. Go into the experiences utterly, without care for what the mind asserts, for it has not come from you - you are just watching it, do not be so involved in it. There will be moments where you feel absolutely you will lose your mind... what is wrong in it?

If you lose your mind, you could not have been the mind, else who is the one looking for it? It can be happy wherever it has gone, yet you are clearly still here. There is no mind there, yet awareness is still there, awareness has watched the mind go and been untouched.

This is something meaningful.

 

[Lunitik]

What we call insane, and what we reference when we say someone has lost their mind is a basic disconnect with reality, the mind has become basically stuck. Yet it must be understood that mind goes on painting reality, what you are perceiving is not the pure reality at all. Zen is exactly a breaking away from this so you cannot call it insanity, yet mind is no longer painting anything, you stop reacting to things.

Currently, things are being perceived by your senses, and go to the mind for analysis. Science says it takes 0.3 seconds for the mind to begin responding to whatever has occurred, it means this much you are constantly in the past. Sometimes, we will use the mind to try to decipher what might happen next, again we are not experiencing reality though, we have moved into the future. Zen is the art of bypassing these, it is a direct perceiving, and only without these disconnects can this moment be called the now. This is why I say most of society is a little insane though, most people are disconnected from reality a little but it is considered normal because it is the case for all, people actually defend the necessity of it!

This is the small gate, the narrow path of Jesus, it is the tight rope exactly between all opposites, for all opposites are based in conceptions, and the conception causes the missing of reality. Find the now and much becomes available, there alone is life itself, outside it cannot be called living, you are a victim of life only, it remains accidental, you are trying to manage something. In the now, life is an orchestra and you are the composer, otherwise you are still a puppet - even if it is a puppet that is trying to cut its strings...

 

[Etu Malku]

Yet you have not grown much beyond High School, because you are still content to dispute constantly, for no good reason at all.

how do you arrive at that stupid assumption? I'm not disputing for the sake of disputing.

You have certain notions which you refuse to let go, you have certain terminologies which you refuse to accept are just another way to say the same thing. Thing is, the dictionary absolutely disagrees with you, as it disagrees with me when I discuss meditation. The West seems content to call both a mental exercise, but meditation is mental rest.

As I stated before, there are many forms of meditation, not one type as you obviously misunderstand along with everything else you try to 'mysticize'.

You have said to be in the now, and seem to liken it to sitting doing nothing. This is absolutely wrong, what they are practicing when they sit down to meditate, who knows what they think they are accomplishing? In reality, it is a training to learn how to be in the now, but it is not Zen.

I haven't even mentioned one tiny aspect of how I meditate but as usual you have it all figured out and nicely packaged in order for you to mindlessly mystically refute. Why don't you stop proselytizing and open your enlightened ears for once and listen?

Zen is to be total in the present moment, that's all, it is to bring your total energy and attention to exactly what is happening now. Gradually, less and less energy is wasted defining the experience in the mind, and so it is used in the experience itself - now your senses will be heightened, this sort of thing.

Zen is a practice that includes a type of brain entrainment. Gurdjieff taught Zen without ever having to refer to it, Nietzsche explained Zen while mocking it. Zen? LMAO

I am puzzled that you say you have been meditating since High School, so for 33 years you have been doing something absurd, you still have not gotten the knack apparently because in true meditation there is no doer. It is strange, then, that you feel you can talk on it, declaring it something you're an expert on. You have perhaps come across experiences and tried hard to define them in the mind, you have not had the nerve to go even deeper, to continue engaging without conclusions. For me, it is a sad thing, but it explains many of your statements on this site...

Again you know all about be without knowing anything about me, how do you do it, you're amazing! Once you grow up and realize that it's all BS and that what you are doing is brain entrainment through self hypnosis (all forms of trance induction) the quicker you can get on with Life as it should be. Step away from LA LA Land, wake up from your fantasy camp, and Become useful on this planet.

Do not try to understand with the head, you will go insane or run back to your identifications seeing them as secure - with the former you have destroyed yourself, become lost in the mind instead of free from it; in the latter you have simply wasted your time. Go into the experiences utterly, without care for what the mind asserts, for it has not come from you - you are just watching it, do not be so involved in it. There will be moments where you feel absolutely you will lose your mind... what is wrong in it?

If you lose your mind, you could not have been the mind, else who is the one looking for it? It can be happy wherever it has gone, yet you are clearly still here. There is no mind there, yet awareness is still there, awareness has watched the mind go and been untouched.

This is something meaningful.

Stop telling me what to do . . . why would I listen to a Lunitik?