What is the essence of all religions?

[Etu Malku]

Face it Lunitik, everyone here thinks you are wrong and delusional, which you unfortunately are.
The Light is blinding to you and the Darkness you just fumble around in.
You attach insensitive statements to your already insane mindlessness hoping to gain ground while projecting your egocentricity on to everyone else because in reality you don't really want to face your True Self and the Truth of the situation.

Here and now? There is no Here & Now, it's fleeting there is only what was and what is to come.

 

[Etu Malku]

At soccer practice, you will pass the ball around, do various exercises, repeat certain skills... none of this is soccer though.

So it is with spiritual practice, the point is to find and live as the observer.

Observing and observing, will you even notice your position?

You will probably say "I am feeling pain in my leg", even Zen practices you use to uphold ego subtly.

More correct is "this leg is expressing pain now".

Go a little deeper, and you will sense the very communication, the pulse of energy which is generated. Gradually you can come to know all the cycles of energy in the body, yet it is all just observed.

Who is the observer?

Practicing exercises for a soccer game is ALL soccer, it is the mind set that "I" will be in a soccer game and that ALL of this is towards being proficient during that game . . . is THIS how you practice Life?

 

[Lunitik]

Here and now? There is no Here & Now, it's fleeting there is only what was and what is to come.

It is because you know nothing but the mind.

 

[Lunitik]

Practicing exercises for a soccer game is ALL soccer, it is the mind set that "I" will be in a soccer game and that ALL of this is towards being proficient during that game . . . is THIS how you practice Life?

Life does not require practice.

 

[Lunitik]

You don't really want to face your True Self and the Truth of the situation.

Let me ask you what you consider the truth of the situation? You are a Luciferian, it is fundamentally a statement of desire towards some end, you are trying to attain something in the future. Are you not avoiding the truth of the situation yourself?

What exactly are you trying to get out of religious study? I tell you there is absolutely nothing to get out of anything, there is only the eventual realization you are wasting your time.

 

[Etu Malku]

What religious study?

 

[Lunitik]

Now you will look at why you are wasting your time, you will see it is the groping of the mind. When you arrive at this, please look closely, you have wasted your time pursuing a desire. Will you continue desiring seeing this is sheer foolishness? You would only make yourself an utter fool if you did...

Free from desire, ego cannot continue, there is nothing to do other than wait for it to shrivel and die. When it finally fades completely, this is enlightenment.

 

[Lunitik]

What religious study?

All the drivel you spew about Higher Self and Lucifer as an archetype.

 

[radarmark]

See, it really does not matter what you think or say. Trich Nhat Hanh, like Suzuki Roshi (the zen source I know the best) both trace their lineage thru to the Sixth Patriarch, Huineng. Since he uses the phrase "mindfulness maintained by the buddhas", then zen uses mindfulness to mean more than "mind". You are falling prey to a common Western error--because "mind" and "mindfulness" have a common root and relationship in English, it must be the same in Pali, Sanskrit, Japanese, Vietnamese, and Chinese.

In Chinese especially the term is expressive of being centered or here-and-now as a non-physical (hence mind realted) presentness. Kinda-sorta like the lustrous jewel chakra of Tibetean Buddhism (as I recall, the third chakra that "stays open" while beyond, or what one polishes).

 

[Lunitik]

See, it really does not matter what you think or say. Trich Nhat Hanh, like Suzuki Roshi (the zen source I know the best) both trace their lineage thru to the Sixth Patriarch, Huineng. Since he uses the phrase "mindfulness maintained by the buddhas", then zen uses mindfulness to mean more than "mind". You are falling prey to a common Western error--because "mind" and "mindfulness" have a common root and relationship in English, it must be the same in Pali, Sanskrit, Japanese, Vietnamese, and Chinese.

In Chinese especially the term is expressive of being centered or here-and-now as a non-physical (hence mind realted) presentness. Kinda-sorta like the lustrous jewel chakra of Tibetean Buddhism (as I recall, the third chakra that "stays open" while beyond, or what one polishes).

I am pulling it away from mind to make it perfectly clear it is not something to do with the mind as Westerners conceive it. I have actually stated the distinction...

I call it awareness, because even in sleep - an unconscious state - you can be aware of this. It is not a trap, it is a clarification which seatlegal constantly fights. I am trying to make it perfectly clear she is mistaken, but you are supporting her problem.

Based on your words here, we are in agreement, but I am trying to cause seatlegal to see the same thing. This is a frequent frustration on this site, people dispute things based on that statement alone, they do not even attempt to comprehend WHY it was said. Please at least try to consider the why if you insist on butting in, the statement wasn't directed at you.

 

[Etu Malku]

Now you will look at why you are wasting your time, you will see it is the groping of the mind. When you arrive at this, please look closely, you have wasted your time pursuing a desire. Will you continue desiring seeing this is sheer foolishness? You would only make yourself an utter fool if you did...

Free from desire, ego cannot continue, there is nothing to do other than wait for it to shrivel and die. When it finally fades completely, this is enlightenment.

So you desire to be free from desire
If there's any religion in me, it's one of Being Human, not thinking I am something other than I really am. Archetypes are thoughtforms useful in ritual and psychodrama.

 

[Lunitik]

So you desire to be free from desire
If there's any religion in me, it's one of Being Human, not thinking I am something other than I really am. Archetypes are thoughtforms useful in ritual and psychodrama.

This is the state of the seeker, that they seek freedom from desire, it is foolishness because they do not see they are causing the desire - they simply need to stop doing that. My own search has been over for more than a year, my compassion is that others should also end... you are already that which you are looking for, just look at who is looking.

My question is: What, fundamentally, does it mean to be human?

We are blessed in that we come into the world as pure potential, but gradually we allow others to define what we should be, we do not question that which society has given us. For me, we should each approach life as though we are the first there, but then there will be no notions, you will simply be in wonder about everything...

You say something is useful in ritual, then it is not useful at all. You are already playing a role, why will you play a role which plays a role - which is what psychodrama actually is, more stupidity. These are still because you have some notion which somehow these things assist with. As insane as you think I am, I find these activities at least as much so.

Ask yourself honestly what the point of this is, when you realize there is no point at all you will not pride yourself on your stupidity.

 

[seattlegal]

Right Mindfulness is part of the Noble Eightfold Path
Maha-satipatthana Sutta: The Great Frames of Reference

"And what is the noble truth of the path of practice leading to the cessation of stress? Just this very noble eightfold path: right view, right resolve, right speech, right action, right livelihood, right effort, right mindfulness, right concentration.
<...>
"And what is right mindfulness? There is the case where a monk remains focused on the body in & of itself — ardent, alert, & mindful — putting aside greed & distress with reference to the world. He remains focused on feelings in & of themselves... the mind in & of itself... mental qualities in & of themselves — ardent, alert, & mindful — putting aside greed & distress with reference to the world. This is called right mindfulness.
​

I'm going to quote the right concentration part, as well--for clarification: right mindfulness is needed for right concentration:

"And what is right concentration? There is the case where a monk — quite withdrawn from sensuality, withdrawn from unskillful (mental) qualities — enters & remains in the first jhana: rapture & pleasure born from withdrawal, accompanied by directed thought & evaluation. With the stilling of directed thoughts & evaluations, he enters & remains in the second jhana: rapture & pleasure born of composure, unification of awareness free from directed thought & evaluation — internal assurance. With the fading of rapture, he remains equanimous, mindful, & alert, and senses pleasure with the body. He enters & remains in the third jhana, of which the Noble Ones declare, 'Equanimous & mindful, he has a pleasant abiding.' With the abandoning of pleasure & pain — as with the earlier disappearance of elation & distress — he enters & remains in the fourth jhana: purity of equanimity & mindfulness, neither pleasure nor pain. This is called right concentration.​

You don't "drop" the mind:

"This is called the noble truth of the path of practice leading to the cessation of stress.
"In this way he remains focused internally on mental qualities in & of themselves, or externally on mental qualities in & of themselves, or both internally & externally on mental qualities in & of themselves. Or he remains focused on the phenomenon of origination with regard to mental qualities, on the phenomenon of passing away with regard to mental qualities, or on the phenomenon of origination & passing away with regard to mental qualities. Or his mindfulness that 'There are mental qualities' is maintained to the extent of knowledge & remembrance. And he remains independent, unsustained by (not clinging to) anything in the world. This is how a monk remains focused on mental qualities in & of themselves with reference to the four noble truths...​

 

[radarmark]

Lunitik, okay, I tentatively withdraw my last two raps to you. It is very, very hard to accurately "cross over" the Eastern (typically Tibetan, Chinese, Japanese, and Vietnamese) world view to the Western world view (Indian to the Americas). The subtitle shades of context between mind, mindful, mindfulness, aware, awareness are lost. In Quakerism the monkeymind stuff (thoughts, ideas) are called “notions” what is left is “reflexion” and “being in the Light” (pretty close to Jewel (third eye in Tibet?) and Crown (no real distinction for intermediate).

Look up really good (many-sourced) tranlations of the Pali (oldest existant) scriptures on mind and mindfulness, it may help you!

 

[seattlegal]

I am pulling it away from mind to make it perfectly clear it is not something to do with the mind as Westerners conceive it. I have actually stated the distinction...

I call it awareness, because even in sleep - an unconscious state - you can be aware of this. It is not a trap, it is a clarification which seatlegal constantly fights. I am trying to make it perfectly clear she is mistaken, but you are supporting her problem.

Based on your words here, we are in agreement, but I am trying to cause seatlegal to see the same thing. This is a frequent frustration on this site, people dispute things based on that statement alone, they do not even attempt to comprehend WHY it was said. Please at least try to consider the why if you insist on butting in, the statement wasn't directed at you.

Mindfulness is purposefully paying attention in the present moment without projecting your biases upon what you are paying attention to, without judgement. A fine quality that all could benefit from cultivating.

 

[Lunitik]

In Quakerism the monkeymind stuff (thoughts, ideas) are called “notions” what is left is “reflexion” and “being in the Light” (pretty close to Jewel (third eye in Tibet?) and Crown (no real distinction for intermediate).

The common metaphor for what I think you mean by reflexion is simply to be as a mirror. The mirror does not judge what it reflects, it does not long for you to return when you are gone, it does not flatter you while you are there. It purely reflects what is there in front of it.

All else is the nature of maya, notions, conceptions, distinctions, emotions, everything that goes through the mind can be nothing but illusion, imagination.

Look up really good (many-sourced) tranlations of the Pali (oldest existant) scriptures on mind and mindfulness, it may help you!

I may, for clearly I am not effectively conveying my intent, perhaps it will assist in that. Really, I am just find that the very attempt to express is pointless though. Constantly, Hazrat Inayat Khan's words ring for me "it is not compassionate to wake those enjoying their dream".

 

[Etu Malku]

This is the state of the seeker, that they seek freedom from desire, it is foolishness because they do not see they are causing the desire - they simply need to stop doing that. My own search has been over for more than a year, my compassion is that others should also end... you are already that which you are looking for, just look at who is looking.

My question is: What, fundamentally, does it mean to be human?

We are blessed in that we come into the world as pure potential, but gradually we allow others to define what we should be, we do not question that which society has given us. For me, we should each approach life as though we are the first there, but then there will be no notions, you will simply be in wonder about everything...

You say something is useful in ritual, then it is not useful at all. You are already playing a role, why will you play a role which plays a role - which is what psychodrama actually is, more stupidity. These are still because you have some notion which somehow these things assist with. As insane as you think I am, I find these activities at least as much so.

Ask yourself honestly what the point of this is, when you realize there is no point at all you will not pride yourself on your stupidity.

You are truly a sad individual without a point to your existence, what do you think comes from this? Nothingness? More mystical crap without any bearing on reality.

To be Human (Hu Mana) is to understand and influence your environment, seek to explain and manipulate phenomena. Not to get bogged down with little mind mazes of paradoxes and pointlessness.

 

[seattlegal]

Lunitik, okay, I tentatively withdraw my last two raps to you. It is very, very hard to accurately "cross over" the Eastern (typically Tibetan, Chinese, Japanese, and Vietnamese) world view to the Western world view (Indian to the Americas). The subtitle shades of context between mind, mindful, mindfulness, aware, awareness are lost. In Quakerism the monkeymind stuff (thoughts, ideas) are called “notions” what is left is “reflexion” and “being in the Light” (pretty close to Jewel (third eye in Tibet?) and Crown (no real distinction for intermediate).

Look up really good (many-sourced) tranlations of the Pali (oldest existant) scriptures on mind and mindfulness, it may help you!

One big difference I observe is that Eastern ways focus more on processes and actions, while Western ways focus more upon "things," (actors) and describe processes in terms of the "doer" and such. I fully realize that this just might be a "notion," however.

 

[Lunitik]

Mindfulness is purposefully paying attention in the present moment without projecting your biases upon what you are paying attention to, without judgement. A fine quality that all could benefit from cultivating.

Judgement and bias is of the mind.

You are describing awareness here, and when I am saying the mind must be dropped, killed, I am saying thoughts must not be fueled, fed.

When you give thoughts attention, you are fueling them. You must see they are not originating from you, which is clear simply because you are observing them - a space between observer and observed occurs.

It would be better to simply acknowledge they are there and return to the moment, for the very arising of the thought has brought you out of the present.

 

[Lunitik]

You are truly a sad individual without a point to your existence, what do you think comes from this? Nothingness? More mystical crap without any bearing on reality.

To be Human (Hu Mana) is to understand and influence your environment, seek to explain and manipulate phenomena. Not to get bogged down with little mind mazes of paradoxes and pointlessness.

I am actually extremely happy exactly BECAUSE there is no purpose to being, it means I am not here to accomplish something, I can simply celebrate whatever arises as a gift realizing I have asked for none of it. My life is simply a gratitude, and there is no other offering possible.