What is the essence of all religions?

[Lunitik]

Being for or against something, you cannot know the now, mind cannot enter because it is the very barrier, yet so many think their conclusions are meaningful.

Life is conclusionless, purposeless, meaningless, it just is.

Zen is a call to just be with it.

 

[Lunitik]

how do you arrive at that stupid assumption? I'm not disputing for the sake of disputing.

It is all you do, your whole arguments against God are an example.

As I stated before, there are many forms of meditation, not one type as you obviously misunderstand along with everything else you try to 'mysticize'.

All forms of meditation are basically wrong, because they are a doing.

I haven't even mentioned one tiny aspect of how I meditate but as usual you have it all figured out and nicely packaged in order for you to mindlessly mystically refute. Why don't you stop proselytizing and open your enlightened ears for once and listen?

There is no "how" to meditation.

Zen is a practice that includes a type of brain entrainment. Gurdjieff taught Zen without ever having to refer to it, Nietzsche explained Zen while mocking it. Zen? LMAO

Gurdjieff has certainly taught Zen, but do you think the "entrainment" is the Zen? No, it is an attempt to show you what Zen is so you can live it.

Again you know all about be without knowing anything about me, how do you do it, you're amazing! Once you grow up and realize that it's all BS and that what you are doing is brain entrainment through self hypnosis (all forms of trance induction) the quicker you can get on with Life as it should be. Step away from LA LA Land, wake up from your fantasy camp, and Become useful on this planet.

Tell me, how should life be? For me, it has not come with an instruction manual, perhaps you can lend me yours? Meanwhile, I will say that whatever you think life should be is nothing but a belief. Zen is the art of coming out of this hypnosis, it is to live without ideas about life.

Stop telling me what to do . . . why would I listen to a Lunitik?

You tell me, why are you?

 

[Lunitik]

Nothing about can be a reality, it can at best be a beautiful description, but there is no truth in it. Reality has to be encountered, but living in the mind there is only about, you are just commenting on life, you are not living it. Now so many questions arise about life, it is just foolishness, the questions distract you from finding out. You are alive, why speak about it? Just be it.

The mind, the ego cannot enhance life, it is literally just a waste of energy.

 

[Etu Malku]

There is no "how" to meditation.

you missed my point as usual

Gurdjieff has certainly taught Zen, but do you think the "entrainment" is the Zen? No, it is an attempt to show you what Zen is so you can live it.

Now you're going to tell me about Gurdjieff? When it was me that lived and studied in 1985 at the American Society for Continuous Education an esoteric school founded by J.G. Bennett.
Do you even know what brain entrainment is? It doesn't sound like you do.

Tell me, how should life be? For me, it has not come with an instruction manual, perhaps you can lend me yours? Meanwhile, I will say that whatever you think life should be is nothing but a belief. Zen is the art of coming out of this hypnosis, it is to live without ideas about life.

Life should be Free from proselytism and what you want it to be, not what someone else thinks it should be.

You tell me, why are you?

Trust me, I am NOT

 

[Lunitik]

Please explain to me how you can study no mind.

I think it is you that missed the point.

51 years on this earth, you have not yet lived at all it seems, still you are stuck in illusions.

What is the nature of your illusion? That you are somebody.

You still are attempting to prove it to me, why?

Has no one ever told you that only the false needs proof?

 

[Lunitik]

You are constantly trying to defend your stances, constantly you are trying to prove your utter stupidity, yet you stand on the grounds that what you say makes sense.

You define yourself basically against something, you proudly proclaim "I don't know why anyone would want to be anything but Luciferian". It is because who is Lucifer? You have heard of it through the Bible as the name of the devil, you basically want to get a rise out of Christians and Jews.

You are as a child throwing a tantrum because no one respects him.

Respect yourself first.

 

[Lunitik]

Please see that ego is the nature of your idea of distinction, it is this which you are trying to uphold by attacking my words.

Science has shown that everything is just energy, yet you are insistent you can be the first to escape this fact, that you can be the first to gain the victory the egoists have envisioned. No, eventually you must succumb, it is because you are nothing but an arising in that energy, you are nothing but it and you are against it solely based on what it is called... I cannot think of something more insane.

Since early in life, we begin to identify with this particular instance of energy, have you ever wondered why early in life there are no memories? It is because you do not yet have a notion of self, you are not yet living as something distinct. This first and fundamental belief has not yet been formed. You do not yet have an ego...

No matter what you do, you cannot defeat the energy, it is what you are, but this is fundamentally what you seem to be attempting.

Maybe you will be the first, who knows?

 

[seattlegal]

I go on saying beliefs are bad for this very reason, they flavor reality, Zen is to see things without flavoring anything - seems easy, but few accomplish it.

“Hope is important because it can make the present moment less difficult to bear. If we believe that tomorrow will be better, we can bear a hardship today.”

~ Zen master Thich Nhat Hanh​

 

[Lunitik]

“Hope is important because it can make the present moment less difficult to bear. If we believe that tomorrow will be better, we can bear a hardship today.”

~ Zen master Thich Nhat Hanh​

What is the hardship? It is only the inability to accept what is now.

Hope is the opium of Nietzche's famous statement, it is a consolation but you have created this reality. Now you move into imagination through your belief tomorrow will be better, you should be able to even enjoy the hardship but then it ceases being difficult.

Thich is certainly enlightened, but this is not an enlightened statement, it is an attempt to ease suffering, it is not a statement about release from it.​

 

[Lunitik]

Tomorrow itself is just a concept, have you ever found a tomorrow?

To even consider tomorrow is a groping, an avoiding of now.

 

[Lunitik]

In truth, Thich has described how suffering happens in the first place...

Believing tomorrow will be better, if it is not you will be let down immensely. This is the whole basis of all depression, things are not how you want, how you thought they'd be by now. These words are utterly poisonous because he is respected, yet he is causing more trouble for people.

Believing in this concept of tomorrow, striving to make it better than today, no matter what you do you will hit a wall, you will see you are fooling yourself.

"Sitting silently, the grass grows and spring comes by itself"

Nothing needs to be done, just go utterly into the now and there will be nothing else at all, you will not dream because you are already fulfilled. Of course, you will like his words, because they uphold your illusions, you have found something in Zen which upholds the worst aspect of Christianity.

Just be, here now.

 

[seattlegal]

Being for or against something, you cannot know the now, mind cannot enter because it is the very barrier, yet so many think their conclusions are meaningful.

Life is conclusionless, purposeless, meaningless, it just is.

Zen is a call to just be with it.

Actually, Zen is about touching deeply and being mindful about it. In this way we become at peace with what is.

Touching each part of our body in mindfulness, we will make peace with our body, and we can do the same thing with our feelings. There are many conflicting feelings and ideas within us, and it is important for us to look deeply and know what is going on.

<...>

Meditation is, first of all, a tool for surveying our own territory so we can know what is going on. With the energy of mindfulness, we can calm things down, understand them, and bring harmony back to the conflicting elements inside us.

~Zen master Thich Nhat Hanh, Living Buddha, Living Christ, Chapter two, section entitled "Making Peace." (page 19 of paperpack version)
​

 

[Lunitik]

The translation as 'mindful' is just wrong, yet you continue to cling to it.

What is intended is to be aware but WITHOUT mind, without the chatter of thoughts which fill your head. Please read the Diamond Sutra, this is discussed there as 'quieting the mind', but 'no-mind' is absolutely central to Zen. Read the words of any Zen master and this is always what is pointed towards...

Without mind, for the first time pure awareness is experienced, every satori is exactly this: that mind has not commented on reality.

 

[Lunitik]

Touching each part of our body in awareness, we will make peace with our body, and we can do the same thing with our feelings. There are many conflicting feelings and ideas within us, and it is important for us to look deeply and know what is going on.

What is going on?

You are creating an illusion, that is what is happening.

Zen is about dropping the illusion, and without illusion there can be nothing but peace - with everything that is happening, but no more a need to comment, no more is mind fueled.

You continue to talk about methods, considering them to be the goal... how strange. The point is to see the stupidity of these feelings and ideas and simply drop them as garbage, but apparently you have not been able to admit they are such.

The point is to end this nonsense of the mind, it cannot survive without fuel.

 

[radarmark]

Tut, tut, Lunitik. I do (whith the help of a dictionary and teachers) kinda read Chinese (I wish I could learn it, but alas, language shills are something I lack totally, I do not een remember the Spanish I spoke as a child (grew up in New Mexico)). "Mindfully" is pretty much what Huineng used in the Seventh Chapter when he said

"If it’s only that [you] here are not defiled, then this is the mindfulness maintained by the buddhas. You are such as this, and I am such as this" in response to Huairang.

Please do not try to force you honestly held opinions upon the Buddha.​

 

[seattlegal]

The translation as 'mindful' is just wrong, yet you continue to cling to it.

What is intended is to be aware but WITHOUT mind, without the chatter of thoughts which fill your head. Please read the Diamond Sutra, this is discussed there as 'quieting the mind', but 'no-mind' is absolutely central to Zen. Read the words of any Zen master and this is always what is pointed towards...

Without mind, for the first time pure awareness is experienced, every satori is exactly this: that mind has not commented on reality.

LOL, he speaks English, and uses the word "mindful."

[youtube]j8gEpW7DraI[/youtube]

 

[Lunitik]

Tut, tut, Lunitik. I do (whith the help of a dictionary and teachers) kinda read Chinese (I wish I could learn it, but alas, language shills are something I lack totally, I do not een remember the Spanish I spoke as a child (grew up in New Mexico)). "Mindfully" is pretty much what Huineng used in the Seventh Chapter when he said

"If it’s only that [you] here are not defiled, then this is the mindfulness maintained by the buddhas. You are such as this, and I am such as this" in response to Huairang.

Please do not try to force you honestly held opinions upon the Buddha.​

Opinions are of the mind.

A Buddha has no opinions, he will not be concerned with what I put on him for it is naught but a temporary event.

Again, what is intended is awareness though, for mind is naught but a collection of thoughts, it is not something which is existential. It is an important distinction, because if you go on saying "I am thinking this" you will miss the whole point of the exercise.

You are to observe thoughts, it is one of the techniques of Buddha, but now you are thinking about observing, it is idiotic. You will not like it, perhaps, but it will only be because you are identified with the mind.

The point of observing thoughts is to realize you aren't them.

 

[Lunitik]

LOL, he speaks English, and uses the word "mindful."

[youtube]j8gEpW7DraI[/youtube]

Yet, still he means awareness, for he is a Zen monk.

Mindfulness has become the English notion of meditation, often people think it is the same as contemplation or concentration - it is neither.

What is the mind? Most would place it as the collection of thoughts, he is discussing that which thoughts arise in, even that which is aware of consciousness and unconsciousness. It is not correct to call this mindfulness because it brings in a wrong notion.

Nirvana is a state of no-mind.

 

[Lunitik]

Mindfulness is a discipline, it is a constant reminder to see that these things you are observing are not you, but again it is not the goal at all. The goal is to find out what you actually are...

When you can reside as what you are, no more is mindfulness necessary, it is now your natural state. Yet you talk only of the practice, not what is attained.

 

[Lunitik]

At soccer practice, you will pass the ball around, do various exercises, repeat certain skills... none of this is soccer though.

So it is with spiritual practice, the point is to find and live as the observer.

Observing and observing, will you even notice your position?

You will probably say "I am feeling pain in my leg", even Zen practices you use to uphold ego subtly.

More correct is "this leg is expressing pain now".

Go a little deeper, and you will sense the very communication, the pulse of energy which is generated. Gradually you can come to know all the cycles of energy in the body, yet it is all just observed.

Who is the observer?