i found some very interseting points there...more than i knew about Muhammad (s.a.w) in the bible...so thanks Nusaybah and Aidyl Nurhadi...you have helped my iman!!im waiting for peopel to argue with what you have to say!
Song of songs of Solomon is a poetic story of the love between the beloved and her lover. It expresses the beauty of the marriage relationship of the king and his wife.Actually there are quite a number of references to the advent of Prophet Muhammad s.a.w. in the Bible quohom. The most glaring would be in the Songs of Solomon, Chapter 5, verse 16. Where it says "His mouth is sweetness itself; he is altogether lovely. This is my lover, this my friend, O daughters of Jerusalem."
Hmm...you might be wondering....where is it that Muhammad s.a.w. is mentioned in that verse??? I tell you, you will never figure out in a million years unless you refer back to the Hebrew text.....note the emphasised phrase in the verse...the authors of the Bible has blatantly translated Muhammad's name into English, of course that's precisely one of the meanings of Muhammad. Anyway let's refer to the Hebrew text shall we?
Here it is:
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And here's a transliteration of the verse,
"Hikow mamtaqiym wkulow muhamadiym zeh dowdiy wzeh ree`iy bnowt yruushaalaaim."
Don't worry about that;that prophecy of Jesus is already fullfilled in Paul.Despite clear warning of Jesus, Christians got lured into Paul's imported religion of GrecoRoman mythology.Prince said:One more thing to add, in the bible, it is mentioned that every prophet that will come after Jesus is fake.
Abraham,Moses,Jacob,Isa etc are common names amongst Muslims.What Quran alludes is a Caliph of Muhammad who would be born in his umma,whose symbolic name has been mentioned as Isa though his proper name could be differen or even God may name such person as Issa or Ibne Maryan or Massih (Jesus s/o Mary or Messiah or Moshiach). Isa or Jesus s/o Mary is repoted dead by Quran , not on Cross, but at sometimes later in history,dying a natural death.There are some thirty verses in Quran which clearly prove that Jesus died a natural death.Semantic said:The return of Isa (pbuh) is only alluded to in the Qu'ran.![]()
inhumility said:Abraham,Moses,Jacob,Isa etc are common names amongst Muslims.What Quran alludes is a Caliph of Muhammad who would be born in his umma,whose symbolic name has been mentioned as Isa though his proper name could be differen or even God may name such person as Issa or Ibne Maryan or Massih (Jesus s/o Mary or Messiah or Moshiach). Isa or Jesus s/o Mary is repoted dead by Quran , not on Cross, but at sometimes later in history,dying a natural death.There are some thirty verses in Quran which clearly prove that Jesus died a natural death.
Thanks
Zaakir said:where does the quran say jesus died a natural death please?Jesus is not dead but was raised to the heavens (unlike Moses...hence refer to the argument...i will raise unto the on from among their brethren...which is Muhammad)...Jesus will come again to fight the dajjal and he will live for a specidies time..i cnat exactly remember the number of years...he wil have children and get married and everyone will follow islam and realsie he is not a god but a mere mortal and human being...not a 'super human'
Zaakir said:(unlike Moses...hence refer to the argument...i will raise unto the on from among their brethren...which is Muhammad)
Zaakir said:Isa was born of a virgin...as jesus was...how common is this...they are therefore the same person...as for the deuteronomy argument vaklid points were amde by msulims here...but non by christians
therefore how can you say this...look over the past few pages..and see what nusaybah and adiyl say...compared to any christian..becasue the christian argument for me is unacceptable as an argument there is no thought process what so ever taht has not already been discussed by nusaybah and adiyl
Aburaees said:Since Deuteronomy has been cited by Muslims yet again...
Please read Deuteronomy 18:18
Quote:
18 I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.
Muslims claim that this verse is talking about Muhammed, as they believe that the verse is addressed to the Israelites and the brethren of the Israelites must be the Ishmaelites.
Please read the whole chapter
Quote:
1 The priests the Levites, and all the tribe of Levi, shall have no part nor inheritance with Israel: they shall eat the offerings of Yahweh made by fire, and his inheritance.
2 Therefore shall they have no inheritance among their brethren: Yahweh is their inheritance, as he hath said unto them.
3 And this shall be the priest's due from the people, from them that offer a sacrifice, whether it be ox or sheep; and they shall give unto the priest the shoulder, and the two cheeks, and the maw
4 The firstfruit also of thy corn, of thy wine, and of thine oil, and the first of the fleece of thy sheep, shalt thou give him.
5 For Yahweh thy Elohim hath chosen him out of all thy tribes, to stand to minister in the name of Yahweh, him and his sons for ever.
6 And if a Levite come from any of thy gates out of all Israel, where he sojourned, and come with all the desire of his mind unto the place which Yahweh shall choose;
7 Then he shall minister in the name of Yahweh his Elohim, as all his brethren the Levites do, which stand there before Yahweh.
8 They shall have like portions to eat, beside that which cometh of the sale of his patrimony.
9 When thou art come into the land which Yahweh thy Elohim giveth thee, thou shalt not learn to do after the abominations of those nations.
10 There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch.
11 Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer.
12 For all that do these things are an abomination unto Yahweh: and because of these abominations Yahweh thy Elohim doth drive them out from before thee.
13 Thou shalt be perfect with the Yahweh thy Elohim.
14 For these nations, which thou shalt possess, hearkened unto observers of times, and unto diviners: but as for thee, Yahweh thy Elohim hath not suffered thee so to do.
15 Yahweh thy Elohim will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken;
16 According to all that thou desiredst of Yahweh thy Elohim in Horeb in the day of the assembly, saying, Let me not hear again the voice of Yahweh my Elohim, neither let me see this great fire any more, that I die not.
17 And Yahweh said unto me, They have well spoken that which they have spoken.
18 I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.
19 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him.
Acts 3:23
20 But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die.
21And if thou say in thine heart, How shall we know the word which the Yahweh hath not spoken?
22 When a prophet speaketh in the name of Yahweh, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which Yahweh hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him.
It is obvious that the chapter is addressed to the Levites, who's brethren are the other 11 tribes of Israel.
And Muhammed certainly was not in the midst of the Israelites.
Let's also look at Moses' Geneaology....
Moses son of Amram son of Kohath son of Levi son of Israel (Jacob) son of Isaac son of Abraham son of Terah.......
Firstly Moses is the brother of Aaron
Secondly he is an Amramite who's brethren are the Izharites, Hebronites and Uzzielites.
Thirdly he is a Kohathite who's brethren are the Gershonites and Merarites.
Fourthly he is a Levite who's brethren are the Judahites, Simeonites, Reubenites, Benjaminites, Josephites, Issacharites, Zebulunites, Danites, Naphtalites, Gadites and Asherites.
Fifthly he is an Israelite who's brethren are the Edomites.
Sixthly he is an Isaacite who's brethren are the Ishmaelites, Zimranites, Jokshanites, Medanites, Midianites, Ishbakites and Shuahites.
If you look at chapter 18, you can clearly see that the Subjects are the Levites, and it was in this capacity that Moses was being spoken too and speaking as.
The brehtren of the Levites are the other 11 tribes of Israel.
It is incorrect to assume that the Israelites are being spoken to, and even if they were, the brehtren of the Israelites are the Edomites - not the Ishmaelites!
And if you want to hang on to the idea that the brethren of Moses are the Ishmaelites - you must prove that Muhammed is in fact and Ishmaelite using authentic sources only.
Thank you,
Aburaees
P.s. The prophecy in Deuteronomy could be applied to every Israelite prophet who came after Moses, a promise that Israel will continue to have prophets to harken to.
Zaakir said:there is no christian who can take any exception to the way the character of jesus is described int he Quran...
aburaees my iman is on a high Alhamdulliah and thanks to you, you have helped as i know jesus and isa are one...how many virgins called mary do you know taht have given birth?
I was talking of Quran there not of Bible.Please refer my post.Quahom1 said:There are four Gospels, six Epistles (all whole books), describing Jesus' death as from cruxifiction, a very unnatural death. v/r
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Quran categorically points out the fact that Jews and Christians are in doubt about the death of Jesus, which according to the Christian NT, as truly observed by you, is a unnatural death on Cross, however the inner evidence of gospels if deeply observed also confirms that Jesus did not die a cursed death on Cross, which you would agree is not worthy of a perfect man or a great prophet of God, this further confirms Quran’s statement that Jews and Christians are making conjectures only and they don’t know the actual facts. I quote here the relevant verses:-Quahom1 said:There are four Gospels, six Epistles (all whole books), describing Jesus' death as from cruxifiction, a very unnatural death.
v/r
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Quahom1 said:First of all, I'm not here to belittle anyone's religion. Second of all this thread used to be in the Christian forum, so that is why you see my posts here.
Now since you are using the Christian Bible to explain Muhammad, let us explore this together.
Song of songs of Solomon is a poetic story of the love between the beloved and her lover. It expresses the beauty of the marriage relationship of the king and his wife.
You are saying the passage reads as: "His mouth is sweetness itself; he is Muhammad. He is my lover, this my friend, o daughters of Jerusalem"
You determine this to be the translation of the passage because of the word,
"machmad"
???????????
This of course is the root word for "Muhammad", correct? If this is in fact the case it raises more questions than it answers:
1. Did Muhammad ever claim Kingship?
2. Which of his many wives is talking?
3. Which dark woman from Lebonon did Muhammad marry and court?
4. Did he ever court any of his wives in Jerusalem?
5. Who are the "daughters" of Jerusalem?
Next, the word "machmad" occurs 12 times in the Bible. Let's look at those times:
1 Kings 20:6 "Yet I will send my servants to thee tomorrow about this time, and they shall search thy house, and the houses of they servants; and it shall be, whatever is "Muhammad" (machmad) in thy eyes, they shall take in their hand, and carry away."
????? ? ??????????? ?????? ????????? ???????????? ???????? ???????????? ?????????????? ?????? ???????? ?????????? ???????? ????????????? ????????? ?????????? ???????? ???????????
The reality is the term "machmad" is used here as "pleasant".
Lamentations 1:11 "All her people sigh, they seek bread; they have given their "Muhammad" (machmad) things for food to relieve the soul: see, O Lord, and consider; for I am become vile."
????????????? ??????????? ????????????? ?????? ???????? ????????? ?????????? ??????? ?????? ??????? ????????????? ????? ????????? ??????????
Again the term "machmad" is used here as "pleasant" or "valuable".
Ezekiel 24:21 "Speak to the house of Israel, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will profane my santuary, the excellence of your strength, the Muhammad (machmad) of your eyes, and that which your soul pitieth; and your sons and your daughters whom ye have left shall fall by the sword."
?????? ? ??????? ??????????? ???????????? ???????? ??????? ???????? ????????? ???????????????? ???????? ????????? ???????? ??????????? ?????????? ??????????? ??????????? ??????????????? ??????? ??????????? ????????? ??????????
Here the term "machmad" is used as "desire".
2 Chronicles 36:19, - "machmad" is used as "goodly"
Isaiah 64:11, - "machmad" is used as "pleasant"
Lamentations 1:10, - "machmad" is used as "pleasant"
Lamentations 2:4, - "machmad" is used as "pleasant"
Ezekiel 24:16, - "machmad" is used as as "desire"
Ezekiel 24:25, - "machmad" is used as "desire"
Hosea 9:6, - "machmad" is used as "pleasant"
Hosea 9:16 - "machmad" is used as "beloved"
Joel 3:5.- "machmad" is used as "goodly pleasant"
If all of these uses of "machmad" are used as adjectival clauses, why would one passage be converted into a proper noun using "machmad"? The term "machmad" has a proper noun counter part. It is "Chemdan". If the author wanted to use a proper noun instead of an adjective, he would have used Chemdan.
v/r
Q
Quahom1 said:First of all, I'm not here to belittle anyone's religion. Second of all this thread used to be in the Christian forum, so that is why you see my posts here.
Now since you are using the Christian Bible to explain Muhammad, let us explore this together.
Song of songs of Solomon is a poetic story of the love between the beloved and her lover. It expresses the beauty of the marriage relationship of the king and his wife.
You are saying the passage reads as: "His mouth is sweetness itself; he is Muhammad. He is my lover, this my friend, o daughters of Jerusalem"
You determine this to be the translation of the passage because of the word,
"machmad"
???????????
This of course is the root word for "Muhammad", correct? If this is in fact the case it raises more questions than it answers:
1. Did Muhammad ever claim Kingship?
2. Which of his many wives is talking?
3. Which dark woman from Lebonon did Muhammad marry and court?
4. Did he ever court any of his wives in Jerusalem?
5. Who are the "daughters" of Jerusalem?
Next, the word "machmad" occurs 12 times in the Bible. Let's look at those times:
1 Kings 20:6 "Yet I will send my servants to thee tomorrow about this time, and they shall search thy house, and the houses of they servants; and it shall be, whatever is "Muhammad" (machmad) in thy eyes, they shall take in their hand, and carry away."
????? ? ??????????? ?????? ????????? ???????????? ???????? ???????????? ?????????????? ?????? ???????? ?????????? ???????? ????????????? ????????? ?????????? ???????? ???????????
The reality is the term "machmad" is used here as "pleasant".
Lamentations 1:11 "All her people sigh, they seek bread; they have given their "Muhammad" (machmad) things for food to relieve the soul: see, O Lord, and consider; for I am become vile."
????????????? ??????????? ????????????? ?????? ???????? ????????? ?????????? ??????? ?????? ??????? ????????????? ????? ????????? ??????????
Again the term "machmad" is used here as "pleasant" or "valuable".
Ezekiel 24:21 "Speak to the house of Israel, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will profane my santuary, the excellence of your strength, the Muhammad (machmad) of your eyes, and that which your soul pitieth; and your sons and your daughters whom ye have left shall fall by the sword."
?????? ? ??????? ??????????? ???????????? ???????? ??????? ???????? ????????? ???????????????? ???????? ????????? ???????? ??????????? ?????????? ??????????? ??????????? ??????????????? ??????? ??????????? ????????? ??????????
Here the term "machmad" is used as "desire".
2 Chronicles 36:19, - "machmad" is used as "goodly"
Isaiah 64:11, - "machmad" is used as "pleasant"
Lamentations 1:10, - "machmad" is used as "pleasant"
Lamentations 2:4, - "machmad" is used as "pleasant"
Ezekiel 24:16, - "machmad" is used as as "desire"
Ezekiel 24:25, - "machmad" is used as "desire"
Hosea 9:6, - "machmad" is used as "pleasant"
Hosea 9:16 - "machmad" is used as "beloved"
Joel 3:5.- "machmad" is used as "goodly pleasant"
If all of these uses of "machmad" are used as adjectival clauses, why would one passage be converted into a proper noun using "machmad"? The term "machmad" has a proper noun counter part. It is "Chemdan". If the author wanted to use a proper noun instead of an adjective, he would have used Chemdan.
v/r
Q