taijasi
Gnōthi seauton
For real, Brian! My inner Eric Cartman is outraged!
Blavatsky's Baboon and other ideas(books) of the New Age(Western Tradition)
H
Hermes
Guest
I would further suggest (the obvious) that in the West any meaningful base of followers means fame and riches. People DO get carried away. Even Manly Palmer Hall, after visiting Haiti (or was it Jamaica?) to "research" voodoo" - suspiciously contacted Elephantiasis at his advanced age. His trusted friends warned him not to go.... incidentally, his organization the Philosophical Research Society (a once venerable institution, while he was alive), has fallen to the "wolfs", who like vermin infiltrated his organization prior.
Lets face it, as most senior he got some senility, in the end.
This(fame/ego) is a burden, an awful temptation and it is very easy to get carried away and take the eye of the ball.
Lets face it, as most senior he got some senility, in the end.
This(fame/ego) is a burden, an awful temptation and it is very easy to get carried away and take the eye of the ball.
I'm sure they do say that ... I am also sure that hallucinogens produce hallucinations.
The notion that God can only communicate with His creature via a drug I would say is nonsense.
God bless
Thomas
radarmark
Quaker-in-the-Making
Thomas, as I noted on Some things about Religion i have observed Post #19, I believe we have the same view on this as far as members of a Christian tradition creating new traditions without G!D.
As a child of the 60s (Berkeley HS, should have been class of 68) I separated new left politics from the sexual revolution from Bay Area rock from Crowleyan spirituality from new age Religion from the intellectual understanding of everything that was happening. But that was me, most of my contemporaries drank the kool-aid (jmho).
As a child of the 60s (Berkeley HS, should have been class of 68) I separated new left politics from the sexual revolution from Bay Area rock from Crowleyan spirituality from new age Religion from the intellectual understanding of everything that was happening. But that was me, most of my contemporaries drank the kool-aid (jmho).
Still don't agree. I don't see how creating an unreal circumstance can put the contingently real in touch with the Real ... I do see how it can upset one's notions enough to make one question, but that's something else.
I think those notions were around a long time before the hippies ...
God bless,
Thomas
taijasi
Gnōthi seauton
Along these lines I would point out something which I think we ought not forget, or overlook, as it matters a great deal more than the life of the personality in the long run ... much less how people remember us in the few short decades wherein this is the case with any person.
Many Hall shared with us something during his lifetime which has forever changed Western Hermeticism and THE Tradition of the Perennial Philosophy. As such, one can browse the PRS.org web site, look over his written and spoken works, download many of them for free or order them at the same cost as one would any book or recording ... and also take a look at the symbolic prints of Augustus Knapp, with whom Hall collaborated for a Tarot deck in the Ageless Wisdom Tradition, not to mention a lifelong career of spiritually inspired artwork and symbolic illustration.
In short, Hall's contribution, plus Knapp's, have become carvings - plain enough I should say - upon a pillar, if not Pillars themselves, in the Temple of the Mysteries of the Lord (as per the reference in Revelation) ... and such (carvings, upon pillars) are read through different eyes from age to age, added when there is competency to do so, altered only insofar as a new generation demands clarification and commentary so that it may apply the new Instruction all the more successfully and expediently.
I know only so much about these last matters, although I know the wolves plenty as well as I know Those Who are grateful when a soul such as Manly Hall or Helena Blavatsky chooses to take incarnation.
I, personally, will remain forever and eternally grateful that each of these true disciples made the sacrifices which they did, as I cannot imagine how much more difficult my 40 years would have been without them.
This, in the last, imho, is one method of determining the Measure of a [Hu]man ... and I make no apology for the subjectivity, nor for the conviction, of my ever-abiding Faith in these my Brethren and spiritual Elders.
Thus, I salute the Divinity in These and in Thee
taijasi
Gnōthi seauton
Re: Blavatsky and ideas of the New Age(*Western* Tradition)
As a note on drug usage {abundantly expounded}, while the topic is too broad to become an offshoot on this thread, unless it does, I would point out that Consciousness (as the Experiencer) must have an instrument (uphadi, vehicle, mechanism) on whatever plane of existence we are considering ... in order to be subjectively altered by any drug to begin with.
This is what a man must first accept or acknowledge as `real' if he is to consider the possible effects of that drug.
That being acknowledged, he may then consider whether the Soul is more, or less, directly aware of, and also a factor in the consciousness of the person altered by the drug experience. Here of course I mean `Soul' in the tradition of the Ageless Wisdom, as Hall and Blavatsky taught it, or the Manasaputra, the Agnishvatta, as it is taught in the Vedic Wisdom 1000s of years ago. Socrates and Plato called this the Daimon!
Thus, an individual of extremely low competency, IQ or even spiritual advancement (if one has insight into this matter) can partake of the same chemical ritual (the circumstances of which, as well as the desired outcome most certainly do affect the outcome) ... and his experience will vary widely from an individual sitting right beside him who has perhaps had much formal training, education and is `considerably enlightened,' relatively, as this expression goes.
Now allow that this poor fool over here has already burned away a few too many of the neurons he needs to have the `Aha!' he's really after ... while that gal over there is so fubar'd psychologically from her traumatic childhood that she cannot think along rational lines to begin with.
The problem in making blanket statements is that it really doesn't cover matters adequately, and - unfortunately - you tend to get people under that blanket who don't really belong there.
I can, thus, from direct, firsthand, personal experience, insight, training, guidance and discretion, tell a great deal about *certain types* of altered states of consciousness ... as well as how to induce, or stay them, why some techniques are more advisable than others, why certain areas or subjects of inquiry are unwise to approach altogether ... and also, with some trustworthy degree of good faith, be relied upon to share the best available knowledge, information, Wisdom or (with much hesitation) advice [as I would give such to myself, though not necessarily as I would, or do follow it] when it comes to ~ this topic.
You see, there are benefits, advantages, and all sorts of short-term - if ill-gotten "gains" - which indisputably come ... (to us) through coming into contact with DIVINITY (and this, some of in our HONESTY and, again, direct experience do know, is an ever-ascending Scale, or Ladder). The one evidenced case that many will be able to Intuit is when Christ vicariously heals a woman, even while the latter had not exactly sought out his permission, or cooperation, beforehand (though she was also, perhaps, *blameless* for her transgression).
Now compare, the man who *consciously KNOWS* that an opiate or a hallucinogen is only a HALF-Truth ... (or, more technically, can put him in touch with Truth, of some greater degree than the brain, astral body, or mind is typically interfaced/entitled).
I do not say the offense is the same in every case; this should be clear by now. Thus for the aging hippie, or the inveterate day tripper, while the effects may be just as cumulative, and the conditioning (`body tolerance,' and worse) itself provides a resistance to the "beneficial" [if not entirely beneficent] effects {although, again, why demonize KARMA, making it Karma-Nemesis?} ... one must weigh in the balance what are the relative gains of *going straight* or cleaning up one's act.
A disciple, especially where one knows it, risks tremendous peril *at every juncture* when continuing certain experiments in the use of the Sacred Fire(s). Read into this as ye will, and follow it(s arrow) to the obvious Conclusions.
The final note here, though it may be a red herring apparently, is that Death, to my certain knowledge, and from firsthand experience, is a Mighty Deva ... an Angel, and as all such Devas on the Evolutionary arc, cooperates directly with the Lords of Karma (and/or Lipika) who assist the Logos in determining the conditions of subsequent incarnations.
If the West will receive the Teachings as these are available already (the Lesser Mysteries), She may also help prepare the way for, and also receive her measure of ~ the Greater ... as more than one Divine Purpose is served through intuitive insight into, plus cooperation with A) the Angel of Death, as this Deva works and walks amongst us, ever doing the Lord's Work and preparing the Way for the Coming One, and B) the Angelic Hosts Whom and which work with the Hierarchy (and thus in every religion and set of ritual) to help cleanse, heal, prepare and purge the etheric and chiefly astral aura of Humanity & the planet.
This latter group, various of the healing Devas, are especially linked with certain of the Great Ones, including the Master Who taught through Manly Hall (as the latter's chief mentor) and also with the Tibetan Master and the Master Jesus. Thus, the Work of the Lord knows no distinction on the Inner Planes between Eastern and Western Tradition per se, but only in the specific rituals familiar to the church-goer, temple worshipper or circle-dancer do the Lords of the Dance (Devas, Angels) find their unique current, or methods of work & expression.
That swineherd, btw, verily it doth indeed possess a demon (so to speak), yet I would let sleeping dogs lie than drive them cliffward, for I know well what wolves can do as they nip at our chins (ahhh, shins ... ahhh, chiens) ... and I will pretend my rosewood mala is just a pretty trinket if *you* will.
Here is the problem, then, in one simple formulaic expression: One man can sit with his crystal, or jade, or ivory, or wooden rosary (and already he may forget how to lose himself), count the omer, or the Om, or the omens (Ah!) ... and the guy next to him chanting the Vedas had *better be* just as holy (perhaps quite a bit more so), or else that fella with the rosary has pretty much missed the point. BACK to square one, BACK to the ABC of the Gospels, or the Gita, and BACK to the acknowledgment, by some, that those swine there aren't simply made to host a demon, any more than a sharp tongue is made to try and carve the same out of, or into, our neighbor's Heart.
Hence Humanity's WORK of cleaning up the planet [both for ourselves and for `Future GENERATIONS' ~ some seeing these as synonymous] is not merely a "good idea" ... it's OBLIGATORY, pretty much no matter WHAT you believe.
So I figure, it makes no gosh-darn difference whether you saw into the future (Peace and Lotus-Flowers) during the 60s, inherited the idea during the 70s, nursed at its watered-down pop-culture visions during the 80s, or grew into the New Millennium as a true child of the 90s. Some of us know good and well we are now simply writing one more page, perhaps a notable chapter in this minor oeuvre ...
... yet when we look a bit closer at the page, start to detect the palimpsests and also slowly glance about us to realize ~ indeed, we have never been alone (though seemingly so, of course) ~ it is: humbling, reassuring and often quite emotional, all at the same time.
Mind is Mind
Heart is Heart
Love is Love
and emotion is emotion
Deny any of these, and I do not envy you, remaining as you may within the outermost `shell.'
Yet to these too, Jesus ministered, and so I have seen his Appointed, in this lifetime, with my very own eyes, Minister on more than one occasion ... and the Noblest I can *ever* do is to rise to the challenge and Follow in his very footsteps (with due, yet brief pause).
Otherwise, A Great One may be in the room. And His Love, while It may descend from the same ATMAn, or Universal SPIRIT[Sophos~Christos, known by many other faces, or Persona, some contemporary, some Ancient] ... proceeds from the same SOURCE.
I commend the aspiration to get ourselves behind, on the other side of, that door, yet Someone must guard it. Someone exists to take the horns, someone to contemplate the dilemma, someone to envision the Solution and someone finally to enact it.
I once met a man who spent far too many years tilting at the knight upon the horse (and other rotary notions, and motions), but I couldn't get him to understand, that the Knight in question left this world many long centuries ago, and while he ever guards the Verbum as Nobly as he did in life/incarnation, it [his Secret] has never actually been in any danger of either premature, or certainly incomplete exposure.
At worst, as this quixotic old Friend well knows, there are wired & fired cognitive pathways which together might constitute a minor breach, thus temporarily weakening a Bridge which both men (as Souls) have long ago sought to cross together, to strengthen together, and most importantly of all, to do so for the explicit and thusly stated sake of enabling ALL MEN to thereby pass into true, Eternal Spiritual safety, abiding forever in the Bosom of the Father, as Rev 3:12 indicates (see also Ephesians 4:13).
Drugs, I am quite certain I may say, constitute a real, imminent threat to the psychological development and personal safety, as well as to the safe and speedy passage *over* that Bridge in question for many ... and when a man realizes that this bridge is primarily, first and foremost built within his psychic and spiritual anatomy, or physiologically and on all planes of his periodic as well as his continued existence, I should think he would set forth post haste and with renewed vigor to shake & purge those kleshas which yet detain him, transmuting every last fiber of spiritual or material sinew from dross into adamant, permanent Substance. He must flex, he must temper, and he must Discipline himself.
But what is my journey to you? All participate in the Glory of the One, as every advance for one is also the same for every other ... and every setback, a delay for all of Humanity.
Christ knew this, and so did Manly, and so did Blavatsky.
No man, in his ivory tower, need fear that the Planetary Lord will bulldoze his mind's creation before his/its time. Yet he can never forever deceive himself, or grow so content with the wallpaper that he shall slip into the eternal slumber, which he himself fears most greatly, deep within, when he is honest with himself. He knows, if he knows anything at all, that to Dwell Eternal(ly) with his Lord is not at all the same, as to forget Him ... or to (vainly attempt) to do so entirely.
Enough! ... as surely it is admissible to indulge one another [turn a blind eye] when the Equestrian waxes bovine, or simian, yet hardly so when we find the sophomore chiding the proverbial freshman {however customary this may be today among the uncultured}
Back to the beads
Namaskar
As a note on drug usage {abundantly expounded}, while the topic is too broad to become an offshoot on this thread, unless it does, I would point out that Consciousness (as the Experiencer) must have an instrument (uphadi, vehicle, mechanism) on whatever plane of existence we are considering ... in order to be subjectively altered by any drug to begin with.
This is what a man must first accept or acknowledge as `real' if he is to consider the possible effects of that drug.
That being acknowledged, he may then consider whether the Soul is more, or less, directly aware of, and also a factor in the consciousness of the person altered by the drug experience. Here of course I mean `Soul' in the tradition of the Ageless Wisdom, as Hall and Blavatsky taught it, or the Manasaputra, the Agnishvatta, as it is taught in the Vedic Wisdom 1000s of years ago. Socrates and Plato called this the Daimon!
Thus, an individual of extremely low competency, IQ or even spiritual advancement (if one has insight into this matter) can partake of the same chemical ritual (the circumstances of which, as well as the desired outcome most certainly do affect the outcome) ... and his experience will vary widely from an individual sitting right beside him who has perhaps had much formal training, education and is `considerably enlightened,' relatively, as this expression goes.
Now allow that this poor fool over here has already burned away a few too many of the neurons he needs to have the `Aha!' he's really after ... while that gal over there is so fubar'd psychologically from her traumatic childhood that she cannot think along rational lines to begin with.
The problem in making blanket statements is that it really doesn't cover matters adequately, and - unfortunately - you tend to get people under that blanket who don't really belong there.
I can, thus, from direct, firsthand, personal experience, insight, training, guidance and discretion, tell a great deal about *certain types* of altered states of consciousness ... as well as how to induce, or stay them, why some techniques are more advisable than others, why certain areas or subjects of inquiry are unwise to approach altogether ... and also, with some trustworthy degree of good faith, be relied upon to share the best available knowledge, information, Wisdom or (with much hesitation) advice [as I would give such to myself, though not necessarily as I would, or do follow it] when it comes to ~ this topic.
You see, there are benefits, advantages, and all sorts of short-term - if ill-gotten "gains" - which indisputably come ... (to us) through coming into contact with DIVINITY (and this, some of in our HONESTY and, again, direct experience do know, is an ever-ascending Scale, or Ladder). The one evidenced case that many will be able to Intuit is when Christ vicariously heals a woman, even while the latter had not exactly sought out his permission, or cooperation, beforehand (though she was also, perhaps, *blameless* for her transgression).
Now compare, the man who *consciously KNOWS* that an opiate or a hallucinogen is only a HALF-Truth ... (or, more technically, can put him in touch with Truth, of some greater degree than the brain, astral body, or mind is typically interfaced/entitled).
I do not say the offense is the same in every case; this should be clear by now. Thus for the aging hippie, or the inveterate day tripper, while the effects may be just as cumulative, and the conditioning (`body tolerance,' and worse) itself provides a resistance to the "beneficial" [if not entirely beneficent] effects {although, again, why demonize KARMA, making it Karma-Nemesis?} ... one must weigh in the balance what are the relative gains of *going straight* or cleaning up one's act.
A disciple, especially where one knows it, risks tremendous peril *at every juncture* when continuing certain experiments in the use of the Sacred Fire(s). Read into this as ye will, and follow it(s arrow) to the obvious Conclusions.
The final note here, though it may be a red herring apparently, is that Death, to my certain knowledge, and from firsthand experience, is a Mighty Deva ... an Angel, and as all such Devas on the Evolutionary arc, cooperates directly with the Lords of Karma (and/or Lipika) who assist the Logos in determining the conditions of subsequent incarnations.
If the West will receive the Teachings as these are available already (the Lesser Mysteries), She may also help prepare the way for, and also receive her measure of ~ the Greater ... as more than one Divine Purpose is served through intuitive insight into, plus cooperation with A) the Angel of Death, as this Deva works and walks amongst us, ever doing the Lord's Work and preparing the Way for the Coming One, and B) the Angelic Hosts Whom and which work with the Hierarchy (and thus in every religion and set of ritual) to help cleanse, heal, prepare and purge the etheric and chiefly astral aura of Humanity & the planet.
This latter group, various of the healing Devas, are especially linked with certain of the Great Ones, including the Master Who taught through Manly Hall (as the latter's chief mentor) and also with the Tibetan Master and the Master Jesus. Thus, the Work of the Lord knows no distinction on the Inner Planes between Eastern and Western Tradition per se, but only in the specific rituals familiar to the church-goer, temple worshipper or circle-dancer do the Lords of the Dance (Devas, Angels) find their unique current, or methods of work & expression.
That swineherd, btw, verily it doth indeed possess a demon (so to speak), yet I would let sleeping dogs lie than drive them cliffward, for I know well what wolves can do as they nip at our chins (ahhh, shins ... ahhh, chiens) ... and I will pretend my rosewood mala is just a pretty trinket if *you* will.
Here is the problem, then, in one simple formulaic expression: One man can sit with his crystal, or jade, or ivory, or wooden rosary (and already he may forget how to lose himself), count the omer, or the Om, or the omens (Ah!) ... and the guy next to him chanting the Vedas had *better be* just as holy (perhaps quite a bit more so), or else that fella with the rosary has pretty much missed the point. BACK to square one, BACK to the ABC of the Gospels, or the Gita, and BACK to the acknowledgment, by some, that those swine there aren't simply made to host a demon, any more than a sharp tongue is made to try and carve the same out of, or into, our neighbor's Heart.
Hence Humanity's WORK of cleaning up the planet [both for ourselves and for `Future GENERATIONS' ~ some seeing these as synonymous] is not merely a "good idea" ... it's OBLIGATORY, pretty much no matter WHAT you believe.
So I figure, it makes no gosh-darn difference whether you saw into the future (Peace and Lotus-Flowers) during the 60s, inherited the idea during the 70s, nursed at its watered-down pop-culture visions during the 80s, or grew into the New Millennium as a true child of the 90s. Some of us know good and well we are now simply writing one more page, perhaps a notable chapter in this minor oeuvre ...
... yet when we look a bit closer at the page, start to detect the palimpsests and also slowly glance about us to realize ~ indeed, we have never been alone (though seemingly so, of course) ~ it is: humbling, reassuring and often quite emotional, all at the same time.
Mind is Mind
Heart is Heart
Love is Love
and emotion is emotion
Deny any of these, and I do not envy you, remaining as you may within the outermost `shell.'
Yet to these too, Jesus ministered, and so I have seen his Appointed, in this lifetime, with my very own eyes, Minister on more than one occasion ... and the Noblest I can *ever* do is to rise to the challenge and Follow in his very footsteps (with due, yet brief pause).
Otherwise, A Great One may be in the room. And His Love, while It may descend from the same ATMAn, or Universal SPIRIT[Sophos~Christos, known by many other faces, or Persona, some contemporary, some Ancient] ... proceeds from the same SOURCE.
I commend the aspiration to get ourselves behind, on the other side of, that door, yet Someone must guard it. Someone exists to take the horns, someone to contemplate the dilemma, someone to envision the Solution and someone finally to enact it.
I once met a man who spent far too many years tilting at the knight upon the horse (and other rotary notions, and motions), but I couldn't get him to understand, that the Knight in question left this world many long centuries ago, and while he ever guards the Verbum as Nobly as he did in life/incarnation, it [his Secret] has never actually been in any danger of either premature, or certainly incomplete exposure.
At worst, as this quixotic old Friend well knows, there are wired & fired cognitive pathways which together might constitute a minor breach, thus temporarily weakening a Bridge which both men (as Souls) have long ago sought to cross together, to strengthen together, and most importantly of all, to do so for the explicit and thusly stated sake of enabling ALL MEN to thereby pass into true, Eternal Spiritual safety, abiding forever in the Bosom of the Father, as Rev 3:12 indicates (see also Ephesians 4:13).
Drugs, I am quite certain I may say, constitute a real, imminent threat to the psychological development and personal safety, as well as to the safe and speedy passage *over* that Bridge in question for many ... and when a man realizes that this bridge is primarily, first and foremost built within his psychic and spiritual anatomy, or physiologically and on all planes of his periodic as well as his continued existence, I should think he would set forth post haste and with renewed vigor to shake & purge those kleshas which yet detain him, transmuting every last fiber of spiritual or material sinew from dross into adamant, permanent Substance. He must flex, he must temper, and he must Discipline himself.
But what is my journey to you? All participate in the Glory of the One, as every advance for one is also the same for every other ... and every setback, a delay for all of Humanity.
Christ knew this, and so did Manly, and so did Blavatsky.
No man, in his ivory tower, need fear that the Planetary Lord will bulldoze his mind's creation before his/its time. Yet he can never forever deceive himself, or grow so content with the wallpaper that he shall slip into the eternal slumber, which he himself fears most greatly, deep within, when he is honest with himself. He knows, if he knows anything at all, that to Dwell Eternal(ly) with his Lord is not at all the same, as to forget Him ... or to (vainly attempt) to do so entirely.
Enough! ... as surely it is admissible to indulge one another [turn a blind eye] when the Equestrian waxes bovine, or simian, yet hardly so when we find the sophomore chiding the proverbial freshman {however customary this may be today among the uncultured}
Back to the beads
Namaskar
H
Hermes
Guest
You mean you never inhaled?
In my youth, I drank like a fish, I've smoked pot, I have tried coke (not the drink). Never pills or LSD...
I've briefly lived in Luxembourg for a while and whenever I was lonely (mostly) I drove to Amsterdam.
Having said this, I do not advocate this(drugs) to anyone. I am blessed for a strong inner self. I am non-addictive, the only problem I have personally that I am an comfort eater(working on that..). I have tried tobacco too for quite a while and amazingly, I got NEVER hooked. We are all different but modestly aside (few) are like me, or better said; few have the same "angels" that look after me.....
Alcohol, Drugs, cigarettes are very bad and most soft, naive WILL get hooked. But that is how Karma works. You play with fire - you may or may not get burned.
In my youth, I drank like a fish, I've smoked pot, I have tried coke (not the drink). Never pills or LSD...
I've briefly lived in Luxembourg for a while and whenever I was lonely (mostly) I drove to Amsterdam.
Having said this, I do not advocate this(drugs) to anyone. I am blessed for a strong inner self. I am non-addictive, the only problem I have personally that I am an comfort eater(working on that..). I have tried tobacco too for quite a while and amazingly, I got NEVER hooked. We are all different but modestly aside (few) are like me, or better said; few have the same "angels" that look after me.....
Alcohol, Drugs, cigarettes are very bad and most soft, naive WILL get hooked. But that is how Karma works. You play with fire - you may or may not get burned.
Nick the Pilot
Well-Known Member
My own belief system (Theosophy) forbids the use of any drugs for religious purposes.
For an opinion on the other side of the question, please download and read the Hollywood star Cary Grant's autobiography. (His life and his struggles with his unhappiness are a fascinating and inspiring story to read.) He was also a big fan of using LSD as a way of bringing a person's deep issues out of their subconscious and into the light of day. Read the part about LSD at the end of his autobiography.
http://www.archieleach.com/auto1.html
or got to
http://www.carygrant.net/autobiography/index.html
and download the stotry by clicking on one of the these links at the bottom of the page:
View as Text File
View as Microsoft Word File
For an opinion on the other side of the question, please download and read the Hollywood star Cary Grant's autobiography. (His life and his struggles with his unhappiness are a fascinating and inspiring story to read.) He was also a big fan of using LSD as a way of bringing a person's deep issues out of their subconscious and into the light of day. Read the part about LSD at the end of his autobiography.
http://www.archieleach.com/auto1.html
or got to
http://www.carygrant.net/autobiography/index.html
and download the stotry by clicking on one of the these links at the bottom of the page:
View as Text File
View as Microsoft Word File
radarmark
Quaker-in-the-Making
Hermes. The sacrament in the NAC is Peyote. Sh! is ingested, not inhaled. It would be a felony for me to participate in the sacrament. There are too many narcs around looking for non-enrolled participants (the NAC is legal if you are tribal member) and those that work for the government (in spite of it being legal, the cops still bust even enrollees who have drug test requirements on the job—neat Catch 22).
Besides, I respect their Tradition too much to even think of participating. I have a tenuous enough grasp on reality to even drink (why I don’t).
Besides, I respect their Tradition too much to even think of participating. I have a tenuous enough grasp on reality to even drink (why I don’t).
H
Hermes
Guest
Let me add...I have gained no insight of any induced experience I have tried. I got more from meditation....alone or group...HOWEVER I would love to try the Native ceremony, I, too have tremendous respect for them and in New Mexico or Arizona, I doubt if this would construed as a felony. (I am not sure)
H
Hermes
Guest
This is a quote from Rawn Clark, a notable Bardonist and someone I model after..(from his book the Discussions of Hermetics and Quabalah)
"The planetary associations of this herb are Venus and Mercury, which well describes its ability to pleasantly ease open the mind and create a certain harmony between emotion and rational intellect. This can lead to either positive or negative effects. For example, it can inspire your mind or it can put you in a stupor.
Which pole it manifests depends upon many factors, foremost of which is the nature of the individual ingesting it. The effects of cannabis upon the human body vary greatly from person to person and from strain to strain. Some strains of cannabis WILL put you in a stupor, no matter what! ;-) And other strains will barely effect your body, while vastly liberating your mind.
The living cannabis plant itself is very intelligent and highly sensitive to the "vibe" surrounding it. It has a great affinity for humanity and has been used by human beings for unknown thousands of years, as everything from food, to clothing, to medicine. It's only been over the past several decades that it has been grown under some pretty bizarre conditions and often with all kinds of nasty chemicals involved. All of these things change the herb from its pristine state due to its intelligence and sensitivity. [The primary psychoactive parts of the cannabis flower are housed in a crystalline fo rm, which is ideal for capturing
"vibes", so to speak.] So it's important (for magical use) to ingest only organically grown cannabis, preferably grown outdoors with loving care.
While cannabis offers many good attributes, the main negative in terms of magical training, is the issue of not being able to turn its effect on and off at will. During the training, it's *vitally* important that you learn how to r each the mental states you need to r each *on your own, by your own will and not become dependent upon cannabis as a crutch to reach those states*.
This is especially important during the Step One mental exercises. If you do these while you still have the
effects of cannabis in your system, then you will not be observing your *normal* state of mind in the first
exercise; will not be gaining control over your *normal* state of mind (which has a few different rules than the mind on cannabis!) in the second exercise; and will not learn how to reach a VOM from a *normal* state of mind in the third exercise.
It can also interfere with the development of the Step Two, sensory concentrations. These exercises really must be mastered with the normally functioning mind, otherwise a dependence upon the cannabis can easily develop and you'll find yourself unable to visualize, audiolize, etc., when you're not high.
But once you've achieved strong mental discipline, this is not so much of an issue so long as you do learn to master the exercises without the help of the cannabis.
I find Cannabis to be a very friendly, pleasant and beneficial herb. It is not however, a replacement for hard work, nor is it a short cut. "
"The planetary associations of this herb are Venus and Mercury, which well describes its ability to pleasantly ease open the mind and create a certain harmony between emotion and rational intellect. This can lead to either positive or negative effects. For example, it can inspire your mind or it can put you in a stupor.
Which pole it manifests depends upon many factors, foremost of which is the nature of the individual ingesting it. The effects of cannabis upon the human body vary greatly from person to person and from strain to strain. Some strains of cannabis WILL put you in a stupor, no matter what! ;-) And other strains will barely effect your body, while vastly liberating your mind.
The living cannabis plant itself is very intelligent and highly sensitive to the "vibe" surrounding it. It has a great affinity for humanity and has been used by human beings for unknown thousands of years, as everything from food, to clothing, to medicine. It's only been over the past several decades that it has been grown under some pretty bizarre conditions and often with all kinds of nasty chemicals involved. All of these things change the herb from its pristine state due to its intelligence and sensitivity. [The primary psychoactive parts of the cannabis flower are housed in a crystalline fo rm, which is ideal for capturing
"vibes", so to speak.] So it's important (for magical use) to ingest only organically grown cannabis, preferably grown outdoors with loving care.
While cannabis offers many good attributes, the main negative in terms of magical training, is the issue of not being able to turn its effect on and off at will. During the training, it's *vitally* important that you learn how to r each the mental states you need to r each *on your own, by your own will and not become dependent upon cannabis as a crutch to reach those states*.
This is especially important during the Step One mental exercises. If you do these while you still have the
effects of cannabis in your system, then you will not be observing your *normal* state of mind in the first
exercise; will not be gaining control over your *normal* state of mind (which has a few different rules than the mind on cannabis!) in the second exercise; and will not learn how to reach a VOM from a *normal* state of mind in the third exercise.
It can also interfere with the development of the Step Two, sensory concentrations. These exercises really must be mastered with the normally functioning mind, otherwise a dependence upon the cannabis can easily develop and you'll find yourself unable to visualize, audiolize, etc., when you're not high.
But once you've achieved strong mental discipline, this is not so much of an issue so long as you do learn to master the exercises without the help of the cannabis.
I find Cannabis to be a very friendly, pleasant and beneficial herb. It is not however, a replacement for hard work, nor is it a short cut. "
Nick the Pilot
Well-Known Member
There are two sides to this question, one that says that drugs help the religious experience, while the other says that drugs are a hinderance to true religious experiences and spiritual advancement. I do not think people who belong to either group will have much luck convincing people in the opposite group to change their minds.
radarmark
Quaker-in-the-Making
Nick, you are probably right!
taijasi
Gnōthi seauton
It is impossible for the rich man to enter Heaven.
Perhaps it's as much that a mind can be made more susceptible to the universe. After all, do not acts of prayer and mediation attempt to make the mind similarly open to divinity?
Indeed - our everyday lives require us to experience the miracle of creation in every moment. Yet how often does anyone notice it so?
O
odjectorAng8
Guest
The psylocibin tests at John Hopkins and the DMT craze today lead more folks into believing in a G!d or in oneness... the connection between us all.
What is real? How can the non real put us in touch with the real? I wonder about microscopes...what we see doesn't seem real...to those that have not looked...telescopes same deal...you look at the sky and see stars...look through the telescope at a nebula and see star creation...look at water and see clear water, nothing...look at the microscope and see life, wiggly jiggly life, that you are drinking...
By looking into the unreal, looking beyond what the human senses can see without aid we find more real then we ever imagined.
Is DMT or the mushroom experience different? http://csp.org/chrestomathy/dmt_spirit.html
Religion and Psychoactive Sacraments:
An Entheogen ChrestomathyThomas B. Roberts, Ph.D. and Paula Jo Hruby, Ed.D.
What is real? How can the non real put us in touch with the real? I wonder about microscopes...what we see doesn't seem real...to those that have not looked...telescopes same deal...you look at the sky and see stars...look through the telescope at a nebula and see star creation...look at water and see clear water, nothing...look at the microscope and see life, wiggly jiggly life, that you are drinking...
By looking into the unreal, looking beyond what the human senses can see without aid we find more real then we ever imagined.
Is DMT or the mushroom experience different? http://csp.org/chrestomathy/dmt_spirit.html
Religion and Psychoactive Sacraments:
An Entheogen ChrestomathyThomas B. Roberts, Ph.D. and Paula Jo Hruby, Ed.D.
Devils' Advocate
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how do we know DMT, a chemical our body uses and produces already is not magnifying what we see? Is not medication (vitamins, antibiotics, blood pressure medicine, cholesterol medicine) are these not all better tools? Just askin'.