There is no G!d...

[wil]

God isn't a totally useless concept. The concept God is a free good, but technically it has the potential to be converted into a scarce good. Kind of like mp3s. Moreover if you want to write a song about God, or a book about God, or a movie about God there is also money in it. Politicians use God. Priests, and mullahs, and rabbis all use God to make a living

Namaste and Welcome Keeper...

I think you've properly identified Chris's complaint. We've been sold a bill of goods. Yes G!d is not a useless concept it can be used to mold, coerce, cajole and control, to create, defeat, motivate and belittle.

G!d has been used and abused to create scarcity and lack....and what we need to do is simply jump into her lap, snuggle into her bosum and rest in comfort, knowing and protection.

 

[taijasi]

Most of the problems arise with our *conceptions* of God, certainly not vice versa. In our human mind and experience, we rate ourselves ontologically superior to God, despite what we are taught by those who are more experienced than ourselves ... including those who have provided us with Holy Scriptures, or assisted in this effort.

This makes it possible for a person who knows very little to THINK she knows quite a great deal, and to fool herself endlessly as she spins off thought after thought, precisely as the rest of us ... meanwhile saying *not one word* about God. There is no way to help such a person until SHE realizes, of & within her OWN mind and Consciousness, that her own `little ego' has been playing tricks all along.

Many are the towers housing our little egos, safely shut away from the world at large, where God is needed, and where TALK is cheap. As one Zen Master put it ...

The MIRACLE is to Walk on Earth​

 

[taijasi]

But yes, God does need us too ... and anyone who can't recognize this yet knows neither self, nor other, nor God ~ nor much.

What will YOU do for God, today?

Not someone else's *ideas* about God, or because of those, or despite those. But YOUR God. How will you Serve, today?

Not aware yet that this is what God is asking of you? Of all of us?

Not very Aware yet, then. Are you.

 

[Etu Malku]

I agree . . . there is no god.

I'm down with the Gnostic concept of the Monad, it fits wonderfully in my Luciferian cosmology . . . we begin as a Monad, an individual singularity, not within any objective universe but without. Upon reflecting on One's Self there is immediately created a duality and a lowering of frequency, this begins the Fall into a material existence and thus progressively lowering and slowing of frequency to where we are physically created, we continue entropy until physical death, which then frees our subtle body to return to its subjective universe.

Thus we create and exist, in this dumbed-down state of duality, but we have the Light to communicate with our Higher Self through the Arts and our subjective universes.

Plato's Dæmon would then be our Higher Self as would Thelema's HGA, the Holy Ghost, the Muse, our conscience, etc. Jung's Collective Consciousness becomes the trail of principles and archetypes that we all experienced during our descent and are stored in our unconsciousness . . . to be used for communication; "Mercurius sapientia, voluntas, Verbum" - Mercury the Wisdom, the Will, the Word

 

[AdvaitaZen]

I agree . . . there is no god.

I'm down with the Gnostic concept of the Monad, it fits wonderfully in my Luciferian cosmology . . . we begin as a Monad, an individual singularity, not within any objective universe but without. Upon reflecting on One's Self there is immediately created a duality and a lowering of frequency, this begins the Fall into a material existence and thus progressively lowering and slowing of frequency to where we are physically created, we continue entropy until physical death, which then frees our subtle body to return to its subjective universe.

Thus we create and exist, in this dumbed-down state of duality, but we have the Light to communicate with our Higher Self through the Arts and our subjective universes.

Plato's Dæmon would then be our Higher Self as would Thelema's HGA, the Holy Ghost, the Muse, our conscience, etc. Jung's Collective Consciousness becomes the trail of principles and archetypes that we all experienced during our descent and are stored in our unconsciousness . . . to be used for communication; "Mercurius sapientia, voluntas, Verbum" - Mercury the Wisdom, the Will, the Word

The Higher Self is simply the space in which the lower self moves.

What you say of the Higher Self is exactly what many say of God, please see, you are on the same path, whatsoever you call it is irrelevant. Understand it is identification with the lower self which causes you to see difference, but I think you know this, I think you will admit your path has born no fruit, just intellectual gathering.

You have rightly said we start with the goal realized and lose it, we forget it as we move through this plane. What this means is we must understand what is not original, we must find again what has not been added during this journey.

I know why you dislike traditional paths, you don't want to be controlled or told what to do, but you are being told what to do, you are just using a different title to justify what you desire, what the lower self wants. Still you are following someone else's explanation, someone else's path. I want to make it absolutely clear, all paths are delusion, all journeys are traveled within what is sought, Monad is ever present, fueling it all because you don't want to see it yet - the whole thing is just an avoidance.

There is no predetermined ramification for this, there is no cause or particular effect because cause and effect do not touch it. You are simply breaking out of the prison of lower self, such restrictions based on what we feel is freedom - choosing this over that, not realizing each choice divides what is available by two each time, not seeing the collective effects or even considering this compression as growth.

Simply see what is aware of it all.

We come again to the point all traditions or paths meet, in the letting go of all that is false, to come again to our original face, our natural being, free from outside impressions, just this love responding to life as it comes. God is only this love, and your Luciferian path is nothing but love for yourself. Dropping the objects and subject of love, only love remains.

All spirituality is simply about learning to live as love, rather than for love.

 

[Etu Malku]

The Higher Self is simply the space in which the lower self moves.

Obviously I disagree with you here.

What you say of the Higher Self is exactly what many say of God, please see, you are on the same path, whatsoever you call it is irrelevant.

Not at all, the objective universe (all that is under the laws of physics) is what everybody understands as 'god/nature'. I tend to agree more with nature religions in that they see it as Nature/Elemental and I find the theists to be incorrectly defining their god experience.

Understand it is identification with the lower self which causes you to see difference, but I think you know this, I think you will admit your path has born no fruit, just intellectual gathering.

I can't see what you could base any of this statement on, the Luciferian path is one of progress and intellectual inquiry, through this gnosis humanity first climbed down from the trees and it has represented the flow of progress ever since.

I would say 'that' is real bearing of fruit, not lies, deceptions, veils, or make-believe which many religion's foundation are.

I know why you dislike traditional paths, you don't want to be controlled or told what to do, but you are being told what to do, you are just using a different title to justify what you desire, what the lower self wants.

How am I being told what to do, and by whom?

Still you are following someone else's explanation, someone else's path.

The Left Hand Path is a path of individuation and isolate intelligence, we Become our own Path, we create our own paradigm to which we are the Lords of. We follow no one else's journey.

God is only this love, and your Luciferian path is nothing but love for yourself.

There is no god, but there are human emotions such as love. Luciferianism is not about Self-Love, it is about compassion and light for our fellow Man, it is about spiritual freedom, not servitude.

All spirituality is simply about learning to live as love, rather than for love.

"Do What Thou Wilt shall be the Whole of the Law, Love is the Law, Love under Will"

But Lucifer is more than the Principle of enlightenment and advancement, He is the pure Creative and Motive Light, and the actual key to life itself . . .

The DNA within the nuclei of all cells of living creatures contains biophotons or ultra-weak proton emissions - in other words, light! A dynamic web of light constantly released and absorbed by the DNA connects cells, tissues and organs and serve as the organism's main communication network, hence my association of Lucifer and Mercury (god of communication) and the foundation of the Herald of the Dawn which functions as a cabal for spiritual transformation through vibrational alchemy.

"Lucifer is on the move inside you and me, chattering between cell and cell, rousing the cohorts of the life-force, keeping us alive and wonderful. Every man and woman is a star and now we know we have our own inner light."

- Lynn Picknett ‘The Secret History of Lucifer'

 

[AdvaitaZen]

Obviously I disagree with you here.

Your lower self might, for it thinks it knows something. I do not speak to that.

Not at all, the objective universe (all that is under the laws of physics) is what everybody understands as 'god/nature'. I tend to agree more with nature religions in that they see it as Nature/Elemental and I find the theists to be incorrectly defining their god experience.

You have misunderstood the technique which has called the objective reality God, yet the same includes body and mind as objects in consciousness and defines subjectivity as that which is conscious. The purpose is to find our true position, yet to conclude a division between these is wrong, for ultimately there is a dependent relationship. Consciousness cannot recognize itself without division so that it can be conscious of something. Thus there is no difference between nature and Nature, mind and Mind, lower self and Higher Self, man and God, illusion and Reality, samsara and nirvana. Ego creates distinctions, id remains constant as merely a presence, and is the goal of all paths.

It is not good enough to prefer this to that, your desire doesn't change what is so. Far better is to come to terms with actual reality rather than living in delusion.

I can't see what you could base any of this statement on, the Luciferian path is one of progress and intellectual inquiry, through this gnosis humanity first climbed down from the trees and it has represented the flow of progress ever since.

What progresses? Only the lower self, to see this is to see the Higher Self, and realize what you are, Monad is unchanging, only ego changes.

I would say 'that' is real bearing of fruit, not lies, deceptions, veils, or make-believe which many religion's foundation are.

The Western mind fundamentally doubts, it wants only knowledge, so judging religion by Western examples is flawed. The Western mind is good for science, but is not a good approach for finding out about life, about consciousness. You cannot take your current perspective and say it is the only reality, perspectives change - which you admit in accepting Higher Self. It is only a matter of finding out what is aware of change, of all concepts and beliefs, you are still stuck in delusion, so you have born no fruit.

How am I being told what to do, and by whom?

The very fact you call your path something shows you are following someone.

The Left Hand Path is a path of individuation and isolate intelligence, we Become our own Path, we create our own paradigm to which we are the Lords of. We follow no one else's journey.

The LHP is not a path you created, you have accepted much in this identification.

Individual means unable to be divided, and what I point to is raw intelligence, the base of sentience. Intelligence does not relate to knowledge, knowledge is just information stored in the brain. Find out what processes the information, stop remaining as lower self.

There is no god, but there are human emotions such as love. Luciferianism is not about Self-Love, it is about compassion and light for our fellow Man, it is about spiritual freedom, not servitude.

Every religion focused on God says God is love. LHP is generally about serving desires and calling it freedom. It is the aspect of love we call pleasure, but this cannot be fulfilled for long, just as servitude to some creator cannot fulfill us for long. We must come eventually to the seeker, the believer, and question it. To call freedom spiritual is itself a prison, a division restricting us to half of reality. Find out for what this all arises.

"Do What Thou Wilt shall be the Whole of the Law, Love is the Law, Love under Will"

Exactly, it confirms always your separation, yet you deny this is self-love. Love is not compatible with law, law is in place of love, it tries to force at least the absence of hateful acts. It is mind based, love is before mind, it is the wholeness that mind divides, in your terms it is the very Monad.

But Lucifer is more than the Principle of enlightenment and advancement, He is the pure Creative and Motive Light, and the actual key to life itself . . .

Enlightenment means to realize we were ever Monad, Creativity is merely the result of living as that. In God-centered traditions, creator and created are divided, Creativity is the reality of them. The motive of all Creativity is love. Life is the activity of love.

The DNA within the nuclei of all cells of living creatures contains biophotons or ultra-weak proton emissions - in other words, light! A dynamic web of light constantly released and absorbed by the DNA connects cells, tissues and organs and serve as the organism's main communication network, hence my association of Lucifer and Mercury (god of communication) and the foundation of the Herald of the Dawn which functions as a cabal for spiritual transformation through vibrational alchemy.

We are not talking about different things, the energy perceived as light to the eyes or sound to the ears etc is subjectively experienced as love and is the nature of all understanding, where confusion is ever of mind. Calling it Lucifer is irrelevant, Lucifer means light giver, but what has caused Lucifer? It is as absurd as notions of God, it answers nothing, it just serves to end questioning, it is a belief, who is the believer?

"Lucifer is on the move inside you and me, chattering between cell and cell, rousing the cohorts of the life-force, keeping us alive and wonderful. Every man and woman is a star and now we know we have our own inner light."

Knowing it intellectually serves no purpose.

 

[AdvaitaZen]

Note, when I speak of love, I do not mean the release of chemicals in the brain - they are our reward for allowing love, they are ever the response to dropping ego, ceasing thoughts which create the perception of division.

Love is the very life energy, often called Spirit where Soul is the same in separation. Surrender of separation looks like servitude, this is wrong, to serve still pertains to separation - what are you serving? What is called transcendence is the seeing through of division, to see what looks opposite isn't at all.

Consider all as a wave, without the peaks and valleys, there is only death - life flat lines. Life requires this play, yet it is all one wave, one happening, one cycle. Find the indivisible, not even the wave but what the wave waves through, the ocean.

 

[taijasi]

I'm down with the Gnostic concept of the Monad, it fits wonderfully in my Luciferian cosmology . . . we begin as a Monad, an individual singularity, not within any objective universe but without. Upon reflecting on One's Self there is immediately created a duality and a lowering of frequency, this begins the Fall into a material existence and thus progressively lowering and slowing of frequency to where we are physically created, we continue entropy until physical death, which then frees our subtle body to return to its subjective universe.

Thus we create and exist, in this dumbed-down state of duality, but we have the Light to communicate with our Higher Self through the Arts and our subjective universes.

Plato's Dæmon would then be our Higher Self as would Thelema's HGA, the Holy Ghost, the Muse, our conscience, etc. Jung's Collective Consciousness becomes the trail of principles and archetypes that we all experienced during our descent and are stored in our unconsciousness . . . to be used for communication; "Mercurius sapientia, voluntas, Verbum" - Mercury the Wisdom, the Will, the Word

Yes, the Higher Self is synonymous with the Soul of esotericism in the Ageless Wisdom traditions. And the Soul is the vehicle for Spirit, or Monad, in the same way as persona is vehicle for Soul, with the physical body as upadhi for the Trinity, the Synthesis of these three. Otherwise, Christ's words to Philip become useless and absurd.

But of course, Christ was asking Philip to also consider how Christ `behaved' in the body, so to speak, in order to see that the proof of his Divinity was clear ~ to those with "eyes to see, ears to hear."

What does this mean?

It means that we shall KNOW them by their fruits, every bit in the sense of the true, Inner Gnosis which Christ taught IS available to all, by VIRTUE {sic} of our relationship with God Transcendent. The awareness that God is an `ELDER' comes only after we are already able to accept something of our place in the Scheme of things, including some of the obvious connections which the Ancient Wisdom has always taught, which science is now able to confirm and demonstrate on a daily basis with increasing accuracy and exactitude ~ even to the satisfaction of the skeptics, except the Fundamentalists, who are not rational anyway. And then there is the testimony of thousands, hundred of thousands and millions worldwide in our own day and age.

A hundred people may be picked in a simple survey online, conducted by curious high school students, which investigates what factors are present when out-of-body experiences occur. The same study, and additional studies which these same young men and women may later choose to conduct in college, can demonstrate what percentages of out-of-body encounters also involve the subject of Death, either directly or through connection simmediately surrounding the experience(s) [of OOBEs], or perhaps occurring as a result. Details of such surveys, experiments, write-ups and reports will vary, but they all demonstrate beyond a shadow of a doubt for some of us ... that an astral plane is even more objective in some ways than the physical, if also more ephemeral and dangerous to explore for most of us, as yet, for a number of reasons [explainable, if unfortunate].

My point is that when Theosophists, or students of the Ageless Wisdom speak of the Mental Plane, most of them do so ~ if not at first, certainly as they gain increasing familiarity and experience therein & thereof ~ with a pretty damn good idea what they're talking about. Thus, we know what an Agnishvatta, or MANASA-PUTRA is, and we don't mind talking about it, but if what we notice is fluff, rather than any real consideration of what's happening ... don't mind {me? us?} if we forget to pay attention to the fantasy that none of this is really happening, or say, "Oh gee, I'm still waiting for you all to wake up from your petty illusions, accept that life is just the Dream, I'm really God, and by the way, it's okay if you share my Cosmos ... for awhile."

So you see, the reason most of the folks will not {for a little while yet} `GET IT' is because of precisely this false ego, this shell of illusion [Sakkyaditthi, ego-delusion] which LETS you feel this way, so special and grand, about [Y]Ourselves. Oh, what's that you say? LETs isn't the word you were hoping for?

Okay, okay, insists. Yes, Honesty helps.

So as Tsongkapa once said to me - in present incarnation - there are SPECIAL thought, you see ... and `ego' is one of them. Meditaiton is good, if you can let all the useless mind fluff out the windows. But don't forget about those *special thoughts*. Let's nail those down, so they don't drift away ...

Buddhic Consciousness, for the Arhat, is not something that's just fun for us to speculate about. S/He would just as soon see you, and me, PRACTICING THE DHARMA. Then again, all in a day's fun, and friendly discussion, we might genuinely, earnestly, honestly ask ~ since I don't think most people know ~

What IS Buddhic Awareness?
How does it differ from Manasic Awareness?
For that matter, aren't there different types of Manasic Awareness, recognized in literature as ancient as we care to investigate ... say, just for example, the YOGA Sutras of Patanjali, which aphorisms give us the Science of Raja Yoga? And why else wouldn't we call it SCIENCE when this is precisely what we are given: A series of steps, the careful and RIGORous following of which leads to PREDICTABLE and DEMONSTRABLE results, such as can be REPEATED over and over and over.

Damn straight.

Oh gee, but, I didn't know there were literally thousands, TENS of thousands of ways in my own world, in today's day and AGE, by which and through the following of which, could be GUARANTEED to lead me to SALVATION and ENLIGHTENMENT, being as how there are literally THOUSANDS of Arhats who are already living witnesses to the fact, some of them still RIGHT here, RIGHT now. Wow.

What? It's only been being said for 18 million years, and thus the real question is, why the hell didn't you hear it?

Ohhhh, I just meant, why come nobody din't come knock on my do' and inform me of all the ways.

They did.

Oh yeah.

Then SPACE is FILLED with GODS.

Yes. And GOD.

Right. And no particle of Matter, MATER, is without {God}.

Right.

So, "IT's ALL ALIVE" is the simplest, easiest, most literal and TRUE way to state it.

YES.

Damn worth including a few other people on, then, I think.

Sure. CC the world.

Haha. God already did.

Yeah.

And that, ladies and gentlemen, Visitors of all ages, takes me back to lunch, or something else.


I'm pretty sure you're still a MONAD, since your Individualization during the past 18 million years (or in some earlier/other System) kind of proves that.

I'm pretty sure you're SOUL or Spiritual Triad, the Atma-Buddhi-Manas is also conditionally Immortal, being the REAL YOU, w/o which you would neither draw breath, nor talk, nor walk, nor move, nor think, nor feel, nor desire ~ let alone contemplate `what's Real.'

So the part I would ask YOU about {and you can ask me, too, if you like} IS:

What's going on, in your mind?
What's going on, in your heart?
Why you treat, me so ... wait, no.
It's ... What's up, with your physical body? As in speech, actions.

Thus Thackeray is the missing key, as useful as any for some of these folks. You'll see.

Sew a thought, Reap ...


One of my favorite quotes is Pope's, but until the Torah is mastered, it's best to leave Kaballa to the Khobilgans.

NamaSKara

 

[NiceCupOfTea]

The Left Hand Path is a path of individuation and isolate intelligence, we Become our own Path, we create our own paradigm to which we are the Lords of. We follow no one else's journey.

LHP is really very interesting, its very different from the types of spirituality that I have been exposed to myself, thats what makes it so fascintating.

 

[AdvaitaZen]

Yes, the Higher Self is synonymous with the Soul of esotericism in the Ageless Wisdom traditions. And the Soul is the vehicle for Spirit, or Monad, in the same way as persona is vehicle for Soul, with the physical body as upadhi for the Trinity, the Synthesis of these three. Otherwise, Christ's words to Philip become useless and absurd.

But of course, Christ was asking Philip to also consider how Christ `behaved' in the body, so to speak, in order to see that the proof of his Divinity was clear ~ to those with "eyes to see, ears to hear."

What does this mean?

It means that we shall KNOW them by their fruits, every bit in the sense of the true, Inner Gnosis which Christ taught IS available to all, by VIRTUE {sic} of our relationship with God Transcendent. The awareness that God is an `ELDER' comes only after we are already able to accept something of our place in the Scheme of things, including some of the obvious connections which the Ancient Wisdom has always taught, which science is now able to confirm and demonstrate on a daily basis with increasing accuracy and exactitude ~ even to the satisfaction of the skeptics, except the Fundamentalists, who are not rational anyway. And then there is the testimony of thousands, hundred of thousands and millions worldwide in our own day and age.

A hundred people may be picked in a simple survey online, conducted by curious high school students, which investigates what factors are present when out-of-body experiences occur. The same study, and additional studies which these same young men and women may later choose to conduct in college, can demonstrate what percentages of out-of-body encounters also involve the subject of Death, either directly or through connection simmediately surrounding the experience(s) [of OOBEs], or perhaps occurring as a result. Details of such surveys, experiments, write-ups and reports will vary, but they all demonstrate beyond a shadow of a doubt for some of us ... that an astral plane is even more objective in some ways than the physical, if also more ephemeral and dangerous to explore for most of us, as yet, for a number of reasons [explainable, if unfortunate].

My point is that when Theosophists, or students of the Ageless Wisdom speak of the Mental Plane, most of them do so ~ if not at first, certainly as they gain increasing familiarity and experience therein & thereof ~ with a pretty damn good idea what they're talking about. Thus, we know what an Agnishvatta, or MANASA-PUTRA is, and we don't mind talking about it, but if what we notice is fluff, rather than any real consideration of what's happening ... don't mind {me? us?} if we forget to pay attention to the fantasy that none of this is really happening, or say, "Oh gee, I'm still waiting for you all to wake up from your petty illusions, accept that life is just the Dream, I'm really God, and by the way, it's okay if you share my Cosmos ... for awhile."

So you see, the reason most of the folks will not {for a little while yet} `GET IT' is because of precisely this false ego, this shell of illusion [Sakkyaditthi, ego-delusion] which LETS you feel this way, so special and grand, about [Y]Ourselves. Oh, what's that you say? LETs isn't the word you were hoping for?

Okay, okay, insists. Yes, Honesty helps.

So as Tsongkapa once said to me - in present incarnation - there are SPECIAL thought, you see ... and `ego' is one of them. Meditaiton is good, if you can let all the useless mind fluff out the windows. But don't forget about those *special thoughts*. Let's nail those down, so they don't drift away ...

Buddhic Consciousness, for the Arhat, is not something that's just fun for us to speculate about. S/He would just as soon see you, and me, PRACTICING THE DHARMA. Then again, all in a day's fun, and friendly discussion, we might genuinely, earnestly, honestly ask ~ since I don't think most people know ~

What IS Buddhic Awareness?
How does it differ from Manasic Awareness?
For that matter, aren't there different types of Manasic Awareness, recognized in literature as ancient as we care to investigate ... say, just for example, the YOGA Sutras of Patanjali, which aphorisms give us the Science of Raja Yoga? And why else wouldn't we call it SCIENCE when this is precisely what we are given: A series of steps, the careful and RIGORous following of which leads to PREDICTABLE and DEMONSTRABLE results, such as can be REPEATED over and over and over.

Damn straight.

Oh gee, but, I didn't know there were literally thousands, TENS of thousands of ways in my own world, in today's day and AGE, by which and through the following of which, could be GUARANTEED to lead me to SALVATION and ENLIGHTENMENT, being as how there are literally THOUSANDS of Arhats who are already living witnesses to the fact, some of them still RIGHT here, RIGHT now. Wow.

What? It's only been being said for 18 million years, and thus the real question is, why the hell didn't you hear it?

Ohhhh, I just meant, why come nobody din't come knock on my do' and inform me of all the ways.

They did.

Oh yeah.

Then SPACE is FILLED with GODS.

Yes. And GOD.

Right. And no particle of Matter, MATER, is without {God}.

Right.

So, "IT's ALL ALIVE" is the simplest, easiest, most literal and TRUE way to state it.

YES.

Damn worth including a few other people on, then, I think.

Sure. CC the world.

Haha. God already did.

Yeah.

And that, ladies and gentlemen, Visitors of all ages, takes me back to lunch, or something else.


I'm pretty sure you're still a MONAD, since your Individualization during the past 18 million years (or in some earlier/other System) kind of proves that.

I'm pretty sure you're SOUL or Spiritual Triad, the Atma-Buddhi-Manas is also conditionally Immortal, being the REAL YOU, w/o which you would neither draw breath, nor talk, nor walk, nor move, nor think, nor feel, nor desire ~ let alone contemplate `what's Real.'

So the part I would ask YOU about {and you can ask me, too, if you like} IS:

What's going on, in your mind?
What's going on, in your heart?
Why you treat, me so ... wait, no.
It's ... What's up, with your physical body? As in speech, actions.

Thus Thackeray is the missing key, as useful as any for some of these folks. You'll see.

Sew a thought, Reap ...


One of my favorite quotes is Pope's, but until the Torah is mastered, it's best to leave Kaballa to the Khobilgans.

NamaSKara

I wonder if you ever question the validity of trying to comprehend this stuff with mind?

If you had any genuine experience your focus would differ, you would not try to convey anything that doesn't try directly to induce the experience, for you would know words cannot say this.

You ramble to portray knowledge, but your very insistence on knowledge shows your ignorance of that which your knowledge is trying to say. Looking well informed is just a shield, what is actually different in you? What fruit has ripened in you, other than a forcing of application based on information?

The purpose of that which Blavatsky attempts to portray is to induce transformation, it is not simply to make you a better person. We see in Leadbetter the distinction, who was more knowledgeable? Yet his true character shone through in the end - no amount of application based on information changed him, he simply suppressed to keep up appearances. Theosophy was not founded on realization, its methodology makes it impossible. In their blindness they have killed an innocent boy and scarred another for life, why do you trust them?

In truth enlightenment need not change anything outwardly, it is simply a returning to the heart, our center, the source of everything. This is commonly said as leela, for knowing it's a game need not cause us to stop playing. It only ceases any semblance of seriousness, allows us to refrain from becoming lost in the play.

 

[AdvaitaZen]

LHP is really very interesting, its very different from the types of spirituality that I have been exposed to myself, thats what makes it so fascintating.

Do not be fooled, LHP is essentially just Hellenism applied to Existentialism.

It seems to have replaced Logos with Lucifer, but the collective ideas of the former are quite interesting - albeit mostly an attempt to wrap Egyptian and Indian thought into western logic, which misses the point entirely. Still I suggest not looking directly at Luciferianism but rather the whole caucus from which it arose.

It is difficult to call Existentialism spiritual though, it is more of a rebellion, hence LHP where all other philosophies are deemed RHP - the primary motive is rejection, yet most of its insight are taken from elsewhere.

 

[taijasi]

I wonder if you ever question the validity of trying to comprehend this stuff with mind?

The mind is the great slayer of the Real.

If you had any genuine experience your focus would differ, you would not try to convey anything that doesn't try directly to induce the experience, for you would know words cannot say this.

I love your beautiful example, AdvaitaZen.

You ramble to portray knowledge, but your very insistence on knowledge shows your ignorance of that which your knowledge is trying to say. Looking well informed is just a shield, what is actually different in you? What fruit has ripened in you, other than a forcing of application based on information?

The mirror can be bad for your complexion, AdvaitaZen, but it makes all the shield I need. If you can't see through me, you haven't looked very hard. First find the ego. It won't help to identify mine, if you can't find your own. Find either, and you are on the right track. Connect your ego with anyone [else]'s ... and you aren't far away.

Subtract that, and see what's left.

If you want to understand me, try approaching me as Friend. Otherwise, back to your mindgames. It will do you just as well.

The purpose of that which Blavatsky attempts to portray is to induce transformation, it is not simply to make you a better person. We see in Leadbetter the distinction, who was more knowledgeable? Yet his true character shone through in the end. Theosophy was not founded on realization, its methodology makes it impossible. In their blindness they have killed an innocent boy and scarred another for life, why do you trust them?

You understand nothing of Krishnamurti's life, nor the trials he went through, nor why he endured them, nor what they meant for him, nor what they mean to him now, nor what they meant for Humanity then, nor what they mean for us now, nor what they meant to the Bodhisattva then, nor what they mean to the Bodhisattva now {Kalki Avatara}.

Do not presume to tell me ~ what you yourself, do not know.

The Transformation you speak of, was perhaps what H. P. Blavaksty was working with in his former incarnation as Allessandro Cagliostrio, when with the 7th Ray Chohan he prepared for the Work ahead. That's a MahaSiddha, by the way.

After his passing in 1891, HPB returned to incarnation, proceeded to advance and transform ... and Served just as before. This he did and still does in his next incarnation, as an American woman. But what's it to you, when you know nothing of HPB's relationship with CWL, Jinarajadasa, Olcott or others? If the Mahatmas are not a reality to you, THEN NEITHER IS HPB.

The Transformation which some are WILLing to choose, is not for everyone. Yet HPB chose that, and twice visited Tibet at the behest of her own Master, and at the invitation of the same ONE INITIATOR Who is presented in every tradition. You know something of this Hierophant? Call Him Sanat Kumara or Siva, if you like; it doesn't matter.

Well if you read the words of HBP herself, you will find a statement indicating her own transition, a time in HER life when she underwent an experience which you, too, will one day undergo. When you do, see that if you handle it as well, as gracefully, and are as EQUALLY misunderstood, slandered, and maligned by a world occupied with its own pettiness, wallowing in its own misery and now crying out LOUDER THAN EVER for the assitance of those who DO hold Sacred BALM, Medicine of BhaisajaGuru and a Thousand Buddhas, no, TEN Thousand Buddhas ... yet ever starving for the clarity, the Wisdom and the softness of even ONE still, small Voice.

IF, you are so lucky ... then perhaps you will awaken to your OWN Call, your OWN Purpose, and your OWN Greatest Potential ~ and do something about fulfilling it. Rather than argue with me here, which gives your EGO greater pleasure. That Awakening, by the way ... that RESPONSE, and its result, is my earnest Prayer for you, as for myself, as for ALL 'ah_of us. Always has been. Though I must brandish swords with the witless. And worse.

You will not understand someone you revile, until after your own death, and no other transition which I sense you will be likely or willing to take ... will show you what errors you commit, as do all who slander and attack the Prophets, the Messengers, and SAVIOURS of every Age. You will murder her, and Him, and every Saviour that approaches, time and again, until you are willing to lay your OWN EGO on that altar, and DIE to self. What else was St. Paul suggesting???

Yet you will sacrifice you own GOD, again and again, daily in trade for EGO.

For that, you will learn as do we all. What is what, who is who, and what is NOT ~ God.

Don't treat others the way you would prefer that they not treat you, and then be surprised when the hand comes round to meet you again, just wearing a different Face.

I am amazed, at the unwillingness, of so many of you to LOOK into the mirror.

Better still, to close the eyes and maintain SILENCE

Find a Guru. Don't pretend to be one.

I differ in that I am not deluded. You will find, that even Krishnaji needed, and still needs one. And no, that's not THE END.

You forgot Maha PARA Nibbana

And if you had an inkling of what Samadhi was, you'd know, this is where it BEGINS

Open to that GREATER LIFE ~ and now welcome, GREET OTHERS, who do the same.

Spitting on them, seems a poor greeting. But then, I ought to know.

WELCOME hOMe

Kraftwerk - Ohm Sweet Ohm - YouTube

Yes, I am different. Jesus was different. Krishna was different. Buddha was different. But you clearly don't understand me.

Why then, do you pretend to understand these other men?

Perhaps they ~ had nothing to hide.
And surely, surely, I am nothing if not a liar.

 

[AdvaitaZen]

You understand nothing of Krishnamurti's life, nor the trials he went through, nor why he endured them, nor what they meant for him, nor what they mean to him now, nor what they meant for Humanity then, nor what they mean for us now, nor what they meant to the Bodhisattva then, nor what they mean to the Bodhisattva now {Kalki Avatara}.

Do not presume to tell me ~ what you yourself, do not know.

The Transformation you speak of, was perhaps what H. P. Blavaksty was working with in his former incarnation as Allessandro Cagliostrio, when with the 7th Ray Chohan he prepared for the Work ahead. That's a MahaSiddha, by the way.

After his passing in 1891, HPB returned to incarnation, proceeded to advance and transform ... and Served just as before. This he did and still does in his next incarnation, as an American woman. But what's it to you, when you know nothing of HPB's relationship with CWL, Jinarajadasa, Olcott or others? If the Mahatmas are not a reality to you, THEN NEITHER IS HPB.

The Transformation which some are WILLing to choose, is not for everyone. Yet HPB chose that, and twice visited Tibet at the behest of her own Master, and at the invitation of the same ONE INITIATOR Who is presented in every tradition. You know something of this Hierophant? Call Him Sanat Kumara or Siva, if you like; it doesn't matter.

Well if you read the words of HBP herself, you will find a statement indicating her own transition, a time in HER life when she underwent an experience which you, too, will one day undergo. When you do, see that if you handle it as well, as gracefully, and are as EQUALLY misunderstood, slandered, and maligned by a world occupied with its own pettiness, wallowing in its own misery and now crying out LOUDER THAN EVER for the assitance of those who DO hold Sacred BALM, Medicine of BhaisajaGuru and a Thousand Buddhas, no, TEN Thousand Buddhas ... yet ever starving for the clarity, the Wisdom and the softness of even ONE still, small Voice.

IF, you are so lucky ... then perhaps you will awaken to your OWN Call, your OWN Purpose, and your OWN Greatest Potential ~ and do something about fulfilling it. Rather than argue with me here, which gives your EGO greater pleasure. That Awakening, by the way ... that RESPONSE, and its result, is my earnest Prayer for you, as for myself, as for ALL 'ah_of us. Always has been. Though I must brandish swords with the witless. And worse.

You will not understand someone you revile, until after your own death, and no other transition which I sense you will be likely or willing to take ... will show you what errors you commit, as do all who slander and attack the Prophets, the Messengers, and SAVIOURS of every Age. You will murder her, and Him, and every Saviour that approaches, time and again, until you are willing to lay your OWN EGO on that altar, and DIE to self. What else was St. Paul suggesting???

Yet you will sacrifice you own GOD, again and again, daily in trade for EGO.

For that, you will learn as do we all. What is what, who is who, and what is NOT ~ God.

Don't treat others the way you would prefer that they not treat you, and then be surprised when the hand comes round to meet you again, just wearing a different Face.

I am amazed, at the unwillingness, of so many of you to LOOK into the mirror.

Better still, to close the eyes and maintain SILENCE

Find a Guru. Don't pretend to be one.

I differ in that I am not deluded. You will find, that even Krishnaji needed, and still needs one. And no, that's not THE END.

You forgot Maha PARA Nibbana

And if you had an inkling of what Samadhi was, you'd know, this is where it BEGINS

Open to that GREATER LIFE ~ and now welcome, GREET OTHERS, who do the same.

Spitting on them, seems a poor greeting. But then, I ought to know.

WELCOME hOMe

Kraftwerk - Ohm Sweet Ohm - YouTube

Yes, I am different. Jesus was different. Krishna was different. Buddha was different. But you clearly don't understand me.

Why then, do you pretend to understand these other men?

Perhaps they ~ had nothing to hide.
And surely, surely, I am nothing if not a liar.

Here, loud and clear, is your ego.

I will ask a single question: Who put Jiddu through it all?

He was just a simple peasant boy before Theosophists got ahold of him. Defending this, and what happened to Nityananda, only proves your identification - it is as Catholics defending the Dark Ages, disgusting. Jiddu spent his life telling people never to accept any master exactly because of his experience with Theosophists, he never forgave them.

You do both a great injustice by accepting theosophists as your master.

 

[AdvaitaZen]

Also, I was referring to the child molestation charges leveled on Leadbitter.

Your whole ramble is based on an assumption.

 

[taijasi]

Here, loud and clear, is your ego.

GOOD JOB, AZ. Now where is YOURS?

I will ask a single question: Who put Jiddu through it all?

JIDDU DID. But did *you* know that?

He was just a simple peasant boy before Theosophists got ahold of him. Defending this, and what happened to Nityananda, only proves your identification - it is as Catholics defending the Dark Ages, disgusting. Jiddu spent his life telling people never to accept any master exactly because of his experience with Theosophists, he never forgave them.

And your ignorance proves that you know neither Jiddu nor Theosophists, not self nor God. AdvaitaZen, work on mastering your OWN EGO.

Then presume to tell me about Krishnaji and his Pathless Path. You have no idea what idiocy it is, either, do you. Let's see you come through YOUR OWN transformations ... without a Guru. Then take your pock shots, like the resident Catholic humbug and rest of the gang. We have one of each, after all. Why not an ego-burdened dualist!

WELCOME! Yeah. That's it. Sure.

You do both a great injustice by accepting theosophists as your master.

You do yourself a great injustice by choosing ignorance. Is that your goal here? Is that really what you wish to accomplish?

If so, you're there. I pronounce you ~ ACCOMPLISHED.

Now as to Leadbeater, here again is one about whom YOU know almost ZILCH. Yet just like various orifices on our body used for excretion, everyone seems to have an OPINION on this matter, which NO ONE here at Interfaith has yet demonstrated s/he understands. And also like that same aforementioned orifice and what issues forth, so too does the opinion that most of you have pretty much STINK.

The reason I have respect for Leadbeater, HPB, Krishnamurti and most people, most things Theosphical ... has to do with the earnestness about which they have set about the TASKS they have been assigned. Certainly the WORK accomplish stands as a Testament to the SHIELD that has protected them all, as well as to the Guidance which has been ever-present since the Theosphical Society was founded in 1875.

Now your efforts are about like those of every other who has slandered the GOOD NAME of what really drives forward ALL PROGRESS on this whole Planet.

You are pissing in the wind. How's it taste?

 

[taijasi]

KEEP IT UP, btw, Oh Venerable Zen-Master.

Speaking of TRUE COLORS ... I think it's yours that are beginning to show:

 

[taijasi]

Isn't that so, now.

 

[taijasi]

From the Star Bulletin, September 1931:

Oh Krishnaji! You led us all to believe in 1926 that we were seeking hapiness, in 1927 liberation, in 1928 truth, and in 1929 uniqueness; in 1930 you shattered our beliefs in reincarnation, masters, saviours, and now you speak of the removal of the "I," of the ego, of a state without birth and death, of life which seems to have a meaning to you, but not to us. And yet you speak of attainment, of a realization, of a culmination. Has your realization, then, a progressive character--progressive in the sense that you have much to say and your message is now passing through a state of incompleteness to completeness?​

And Kalki Avatara has already responded. Most of us already know that.

What's keeping YOU?

 

[taijasi]

Oh wait ... you are a Vaishnava? Or are these not just words. Labels. Classifications within the MIND, thus more modifications of the Thinking Principle?

No, friend. I have quite enjoyed some of what you have posted. But if it were not there already, and still, I would prove to you in a heartbeat that you, like everyone, have a long, long way to go ~ 'ere you have fully crossed to that farther Shore.

And in the interim, you shall come and go across the BRIDGE many, many times. Like the rest of us.

Would you shorten your remaining # of incarnations? Or do you quite enjoy Samsara, and have you resigned yourself to just *deal with the suffering* since after all, it is unavoidable until a point that lies in YOUR future, as well as mine?

Much as people can tell that I have something to share, but do not understand me, and thus, rather than taking the time, they choose the easier path - which is to try and prick holes, and deflate - so too I think you will find that eventually you will wear out your welcome. Especially if you resort to the same useless strategies.

No, I am not egoless. Any more than you are. But I do know that, and own up to the fact. DO YOU?

Nor is what I preach in any way assailable. For I have ever but said that ALL Paths lead to God, something like all roads leading to Rome. Some are easier to travel, some more difficult. Some are for the masses, others for the mountain goat who leaves behind the sheep ~ and climbs STRAIGHT UP THE MOUNTAIN.

Do not disparage, but don't lash out and try to rend those who have gone before. You clearly do not understand them, whatever pretense you may make. I don't really care if I am a lone wolf, crying in the night. It's not your sheep I'm after. Nor do I really care if the lemmings go straight off the cliff, as always.

It's the one or two, here and there, who prick up their ears, and hear.

These, as verily as Christ's own, know exactly what I'm talking about. And they know that nothing I could say would justify my setting a poor example. Thus to sink to YOUR level, AdvaitaZen, is no different, really, than when poor ol', doubting Thomas takes his pock-shots, jabbing at me from his glass house, fussing about ol' Leadbeater or the Old Lady herself.

You both become blind, ignorant and arrogant. And truly, I have NO RIGHT to descend to your, common level, as it's not the FOOLISHNESS or FOLLY, VANITY of men - and women - which I wish to show.

I merely point out, that some of us, KNOW.

Namaskar