There is no G!d...

[AdvaitaZen]

Of course, this can be seen, understood.

Nothing can be said of it though.

You can only be it.

 

[AdvaitaZen]

To be clear: No, nothing I have said is truth.

It is only an attempt to point at it.

 

[China Cat Sunflower]

God isn't a totally useless concept. The concept God is a free good, but technically it has the potential to be converted into a scarce good. Kind of like mp3s. Moreover if you want to write a song about God, or a book about God, or a movie about God there is also money in it. Politicians use God. Priests, and mullahs, and rabbis all use God to make a living

That's true enough.

 

[China Cat Sunflower]

Hi Chris, an old-timer who doesn't post much. I know I've seen some of your posts around through.

Looking at the sections I highlighted, I'm not certain I see the connection. First though: even though I don't know what God is I know that a lot of people claim to know, to have felt enough to make that judgement. And, personally, they might actually know.

But what I was going to ask was the connection between your outlook on life and God. Aren't they totally different aspects, possibly mutually exclusive? Can't you wonder about divinity and examine the world around you while you figure out what you want?

I do hope you figure out what you want, and I hope that helps you.

Well, I think that someone should say what God is. Take out a patent that says what It is and trademark it. That way we'd all know what God TM is, like we know what Pepsi is. Or maybe we could just explain what God does in psychological terms and dispense with the loaded label.

God seems to be like a snake with two heads. One head is the Biblical God of wrath and foreskin collecting, and the other a cosmic Santa Claus, or a sort of connecting force between all living things. When I try to pin down and step on one head for a definition, it disappears and the other head one pops out.

I have become jaded and cynical. I have lost interest in most things and I seek only to live a quiet life and enjoy the simple pleasures of raising my kids, cooking, and playing golf. I have no aspirations toward belief in any sort of inherent benevolence in the universe. I'm just keeping my head down and trying not to get screwed. I work, I eat, I sleep. I'm afraid of death and I don't like growing older.

Chris

 

[seattlegal]

Well, I think that someone should say what God is. Take out a patent that says what It is and trademark it. That way we'd all know what God TM is, like we know what Pepsi is. Or maybe we could just explain what God does in psychological terms and dispense with the loaded label.

God seems to be like a snake with two heads. One head is the Biblical God of wrath and foreskin collecting, and the other a cosmic Santa Claus, or a sort of connecting force between all living things. When I try to pin down and step on one head for a definition, it disappears and the other head one pops out.

I have become jaded and cynical. I have lost interest in most things and I seek only to live a quiet life and enjoy the simple pleasures of raising my kids, cooking, and playing golf. I have no aspirations toward belief in any sort of inherent benevolence in the universe. I'm just keeping my head down and trying not to get screwed. I work, I eat, I sleep. I'm afraid of death and I don't like growing older.

Chris

A bit ignostic there, Chris? That's cool.

God is a useless concept. No one knows what God is. I think we need to stop searching for the divine "other" and try to self-actuate from the ground up.

Hmm, according to Buddha's Water Snake Simile, self-actuation involves the basis of your consciousness becoming untraceable, just as you say God is...

"And when the devas, together with Indra, the Brahmas, & Pajapati, search for the monk whose mind is thus released, they cannot find that 'The consciousness of the one truly gone (tathagata) [11] is dependent on this.' Why is that? The one truly gone is untraceable even in the here & now. [12]
​

Can't Trade Mark that which can't be defined, eh?

 

[wil]

The crux of the bisquit is the apostrophe....

That is just it....G!d never has been, never will be identifiable, definable....not that is by any one group with all the other groups agreeing... Tis a catch all for the unknown.....what G!d does is anthropomorphizing...the OT G!d in my mind was the G!d that man could make up to explain the unknown at that time.....daddy why did it rain and our crops grow great?? Don't understand El Nino and atomospheric currents?? G!d did it....same as droughts and plagues and volcanoes and hurricanes and eclipses....until we learn....and then man creates a new G!d out of the old G!d and the current unknowns....

 

[A Cup Of Tea]

Well, I think that someone should say what God is. Take out a patent that says what It is and trademark it. That way we'd all know what God TM is, like we know what Pepsi is. Or maybe we could just explain what God does in psychological terms and dispense with the loaded label.

God seems to be like a snake with two heads. One head is the Biblical God of wrath and foreskin collecting, and the other a cosmic Santa Claus, or a sort of connecting force between all living things. When I try to pin down and step on one head for a definition, it disappears and the other head one pops out.

I have become jaded and cynical. I have lost interest in most things and I seek only to live a quiet life and enjoy the simple pleasures of raising my kids, cooking, and playing golf. I have no aspirations toward belief in any sort of inherent benevolence in the universe. I'm just keeping my head down and trying not to get screwed. I work, I eat, I sleep. I'm afraid of death and I don't like growing older.

Chris

About God being one of two things: my perspective, coming from an atheistic upbringing, is that a lot of people are raised with God as Santa Claus, but later loose their faith when they realise that the world is a harsh, harsh place. You think that is accurate?

I'm curious as to how your idea of a god has become death and doom or happy puppies attack, what do you think has formed that perspective?

 

[Thomas]

....and then man creates a new G!d out of the old G!d and the current unknowns....

Is that how you would define your position?

 

[wil]

Is that how you would define your position?

I'd say that is how I see it...As I said....I'm more of a panentheist...I see G!d expressed in everthing. I see G!d expressed in the OT and the NT but don't believe in any invisible being making the river red with blood or sweeping thru killing newborns, or causing plagues, hurricanes or bumper crops... I's a nontheistic Christian... I don't believe their is anybeing keeping a spreadsheet deciding who goes to the heaven and hell I don't believe in.

 

[Thomas]

I'd say that is how I see it...As I said....I'm more of a panentheist...I see G!d expressed in everthing.

Then I can see how that can only lead to anthropomorphism.

I don't believe their is anybeing keeping a spreadsheet deciding who goes to the heaven and hell I don't believe in.

Nor do I. That's another anthropomorphic projection.

The wisdom of the Fathers prevents the very errors you keep referring to! And whilst you refute the errors you put on me, you fall into the trap of spinning a new coat that suits you better!

It's because I resist objective panentheism ... I see God in all things, but not as all things ... that, I would argue, is just a veiled, contemporary idolatry.

Whilst you 'knock' the naive imagery of a somewhat childish cataphatism, you've just replaced it with a more modern and sophisticated version. Old wine in new skins!

The apophatic calls, old chum!

 

[wil]

But the thing is...in Catholic schools and Sunday schools coast to coast they portray the Chapel ceiling with the old white man creating man and woman out of rib and Adam and Eve as history and heaven and hell as carrots and sticks....

Until our religion quits its backward ways...they'll be worshipping Him.

 

[wil]

It's because I resist objective panentheism ... I see God in all things, but not as all things ... that, I would argue, is just a veiled, contemporary idolatry.

Exactly what I've been saying for years....and what you quoted from me in your post...

Except it ain't contemporary idolatry...it is ancient idolatry...

 

[Thomas]

But the thing is...

Sorry Wil, but this constant negative stereotyping of Catholicism really boring.

Might I remind you that nowhere in any Christian Creed, Dogma, Doctrine or Constitution of the Roman Catholic Church, is God the Father portrayed as a white-bearded old man ... so your argument is irrelevant ... I would also suggest you credit people with a bit more intelligence.

I roll my eyes at 'rapture' freaks and 'creationsists' — fantasists and fundamentalists respectively in my book – but I don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.

Personally, i find the Unity literature insipid and sentimental, utterly lacking in real insight or philosophical rigour. It's 'Christianity Lite' of the 'gentle Jesus meek and mild' category, an image that annoys me as much as bearded old men annoy you ... you could

Until our religion quits its backward ways...

God preserve us from you way ...

And all the while, those brought up in our 'backward ways' make ground-breaking contributions in every field of science and the humanities ... but then to accept that would spoil your thesis, don't you think?

 

[wil]

I say Catholic School and Sunday School....and you take it as Catholic bashing....

All religious schools...all sunday schools....teach our youth about an invisible being in the sky keeping track of who is doing good and who is doing bad.... most of those kids that don't turn away from church grow up believing that to be true..because they don't ever learn more...and the same with those who turn away...they turn away because of this bogus teaching....

I say catholic schools for one reason and it ain't catholic bashing...it is because I grew up with many kids who went thru this...many who left the church, many who are still in the church and dispite what the creed, doctrine or dogma says...this is what was drilled into their heads by the nuns...an old white dude in the sky... I say Catholics not because its bashing but because it is HALF of Christianity...and Half of former Christians....


You are tired of my Catholic bashing....which is your perception...not mine.....but you have no problems pointing your finger directly at me and saying "G!d preserve us from you way"???? While G!d is sleeping there just may be some logs that need tending to.

 

[wil]

Thomas....things may be different in the UK.... I can't speak to that..... but here in North America...where in Mexico it is 83% Catholic, Canada 42% and US 28%, I've grown up with so many Catholic friends who would laugh at your perception that I am a Catholic basher. My son was in a scout troop that was 50% Catholic and we as a troop competed with other area troops and earned the Cardinal's Troop award year after year (until we decided to back off so the 100% Catholic troops could win). In Arizona, Nevada, NJ and Maryland friends in my neighborhood went to Catholic schools and High Schools. I went to two proms with Catholic girls I dated....it is simply ludicrous to think that I bash your denomination.

Disagree, sure....but my main disagreement is teaching children about invisible beings which turn them away from science and fact.... I wish our schools here would teach as you indicate you believe.

 

[A Cup Of Tea]

Wil, I think you are assuming too much based on your prior experience, isn't it clear that Thomas and the Catholics you are talking about has little in common? Shouldn't you and I judge Thomas words on their own standing?

 

[AdvaitaZen]

Is that how you would define your position?

I feel this summarizes every post you've ever made on this site.

Can truth be a personal position?

It cannot be personal at all.

 

[Aupmanyav]

I feel this summarizes every post you've ever made on this site. Can truth be a personal position? It cannot be personal at all.

Personally, i find the Unity literature insipid and sentimental, utterly lacking in real insight or philosophical rigour. It's 'Christianity Lite' of the 'gentle Jesus meek and mild' category, ..

You do have some difference of opinion with Thomas. Thomas' Jesus, apparently, is not 'meek and mild' (will send unbelievers to everlasting hell).

.. don't believe in any invisible being making the river red with blood or sweeping thru killing newborns, or causing plagues, hurricanes or bumper crops..

Then, you are hardly a christian. What did He do with Sodom and Gommorah? What did He do with Egypt? Did He not turn Pharaoh's army pursuing Moses blind with a storm? That is what Thomas is saying.

 

[Aupmanyav]

I have become jaded and cynical. I have lost interest in most things and I seek only to live a quiet life and enjoy the simple pleasures of .. I'm afraid of death and I don't like growing older.

Friend, that is not the way to tackle life. What if something interferes with your simple pleasures. That is what Krishna mentions in Gita and Buddha advises. The other name for attachment is bondage. Ha, ha. You are afraid of death knowing well that no human will escape it. And you do not like to grow older - have you seen time being still or going back? Calmly accept 'ritam', the way of life, 'dao'. Do not fight against the current. It does not lead you anywhere.

 

[wil]

You do have some difference of opinion with Thomas. Thomas' Jesus, apparently, is not 'meek and mild' (will send unbelievers to everlasting hell).Then, you are hardly a christian. What did He do with Sodom and Gommorah? What did He do with Egypt? Did He not turn Pharaoh's army pursuing Moses blind with a storm? That is what Thomas is saying.

Actuallly they are having issues proving the exodus, or the enslavement of Jews.... The stories are what they are....stories....primitive man attempting to explain the unexplainable in the oral tradition around the fire...