Knowledge and Understanding

A Cup Of Tea

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I understand your propensity to wax laconic dear ACOT, but please feel free to expand on this. I'd like to hear what you have to say at length, if you feel so inclined. Your perspectives are always interesting and often refreshing.

Dear me, with this I have no choice but to give it my best effort! But I'll have to think about it some, it is neither very clear to me or easy to for me to express myself in this way. I'll spend some time on wikipedia and try and find some wise man (/woman) who has defined this relationship. I'll also have to think some of what radar and donnann, wrote.

The only thing I can think of is knowledge being as tools where understanding is using the tools at the right place and the right time.

Since I just lectured donnann in another thread about sticking to the topic, I'll try and follow my own advice and move it all here.

I have an idea of the difference of Knowledge and Understanding but I have never explored it enough to be able to put it in words for others to know or understand. Here I'll try to explore and understand their relationship, but it is not my thread, I want you all to teach me what you see.

I'll start of with a text from Bushido, the Soul of Japan by Inazo Nitobe:

The writings of Confucius and Mencius formed the principal text-books for youths and the highest authority in discussion among the old. A mere acquaintance with the classics of these two sages was held, however, in no high esteem. A common proverb ridicules one who has only an intellectual knowledge of Confucius, as a man ever studious but ignorant of Analects. A typical samurai calls a literary savant a book-smelling sot. Another compares learning to an ill-smelling vegetable that must be boiled and boiled before it is fit for use. A man who has read little smells a little pedantic, and a man who has read much smells yet more so; both are alike unpleasant. The writer meant thereby that knowledge becomes really such only when it is assimilated in the mind of the learner and shows in his character. An intellectual specialist was considered a machine. Intellect itself was considered subordinate to ethical emotion. Man and the universe were conceived to be alike spiritual and ethical. Bushido could not accept the judgment of Huxley, that the cosmic process was unmoral.

Bushido made light of knowledge of such. It was not pursued as an end in itself, but as a means to the attainment of wisdom. Hence, he who stopped short of this end was regarded no higher than a convenient machine, which could turn out poems and maxims at bidding. Thus, knowledge was conceived as identical with its practical application in life; and this Socratic doctrine found its greatest exponent in the Chinese philosopher, Wan Yang Ming, who never wearies of repeating, "To know and to act are one and the same."
 
I'm going to reflect on these of course.
Knowledge is of facts and understanding of possibilities?

Understanding (also called intellection) is a psychological process related to an abstract or physical object, such as a person, situation, or message whereby one is able to think about it and use concepts to deal adequately with that object. Understanding is a relation between the knower and an object of understanding. Understanding implies abilities and dispositions with respect to an object of knowledge sufficient to support intelligent behavior.[1]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Understanding
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Understanding#cite_note-1
Nous (British: /ˈns/;[1] US: /ˈns/), sometimes equated to intellect or intelligence, is a philosophical term for the
faculty of the human mind which is described in classical philosophy as necessary for understanding what is true or real, similar in meaning to intuition. It is also often described as a form of perception which works within the mind ("the mind's eye"), rather than only through the physical senses.[2] The three commonly used philosophical terms are from Greek, νοῦς or νόος, and Latin intellectus and intelligentia respectively.
Nous - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Is this what you mean by possibilities?

Gospel of Mary

Main article: Gospel of Mary
According to the Gospel of Mary, Jesus himself articulates the essence of Nous:
"There where is the nous, lies the treasure." Then I said to him: "Lord, when someone meets you in a Moment of Vision, is it through the soul [psuchē] that they see, or is it through the spirit [pneuma]?" The Teacher answered: "It is neither through the soul nor the spirit, but the nous between the two which sees the vision..."
The Gospel of Mary, p. 10
Nous - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 
I look at it as lower case and uppercase situations....

There is something I know. (smoking is bad for me, yet I continue to smoke) and I don't really understand this.

But when I Understand it, when it has become part of my being. Now there is someting I Know, that smoking is bad for me, therfore I do not smoke.

Lower case, I don't really know, I have a knowledge of it, but I don't Know it.
 
wil-

Guess my usage is closer to the opposite. Knowledge is limited (I use the hard sense, like a mathematical proof). Understanding (per donnann above) is deeper, beyond, and relational.
 
radar, I'm thinking that your usage reflect mine.

wil, so for you knowledge and understanding are synonym, but there are two different levels of knowledge/understanding?
 
all things to me have a lower case and upper case level of assimilation in our life....when something is knee jerk like we assume Ghandi or MLK were with nonviolence...or Jesus or Bhudda were with peace...were they..or were they avatars for this is another thing...but when it is so ingrained in you to be your natural response in any situation....upper case....

as to knowledge and understanding.... I have an understanding of how a internal combustion works, I do not have the knowledge to build one, or put one together.
 
as to knowledge and understanding.... I have an understanding of how a internal combustion works, I do not have the knowledge to build one, or put one together.

This makes no sense to me, I don't understand at all the difference you prescribe to them, what you wrote could just as well been:

I have the knowledge of how a internal combustion works, I do not have the understanding to build one, or put one together.

...for me
 
Lots of text! Thanks.

I want to point out that since this is my second language I will lack the depth of English that all of you possess.
 
Lots of text! Thanks.

I want to point out that since this is my second language I will lack the depth of English that all of you possess.

Me thinks your grammar is much better than mine.

but if english is your second language....how many words do each of these...knowledge and understanding translate into for you?
 
As far I know our two words hold the same meaning as yours, but thats it, I could be translating my understanding of the words and miss something unique in your usage. We'll see, I have this thread to find out.

But for now, happy midsummer! Today is a day of celebration and time with those you love (mostly it's a time for drinking but I choose love). Feel the joy everyone!
 
It's apparently connected to the birth of John the Baptist, but is celebrated in all it's pagan glory.
 
@ ACOT: I had no idea that English was a second language since you use it with grace and are adept at the vagaries of the language. If you don't mind, what is your primary language?

@Wil: If we shadows have offended, think but this and all is mended, that you have but slumbered here, while these visions did appear, and this weak and idle theme, yielding no more than a dream...
 
If we actors have offended you, just think of it this way and everything will be all right.

You were asleep when you saw these visions, and this silly and pathetic story was no more real than a dream.

Ladies and gentlemen, don’t get upset with me. If you forgive us, we’ll make everything all right.

I’m an honest Puck, and I swear that if we’re lucky enough not to get hissed at, we’ll make it up to you soon.

If not, then I’m a liar. So good night to everyone.
Give me some applause, if we’re friends, and Robin will make everything up to you.
 
If we actors have offended you, just think of it this way and everything will be all right.

You were asleep when you saw these visions, and this silly and pathetic story was no more real than a dream.

Ladies and gentlemen, don’t get upset with me. If you forgive us, we’ll make everything all right.

I’m an honest Puck, and I swear that if we’re lucky enough not to get hissed at, we’ll make it up to you soon.

If not, then I’m a liar. So good night to everyone.
Give me some applause, if we’re friends, and Robin will make everything up to you.

:)

Somehow, the original sounds better. I recently saw a version in which Puck's soliloquy was cut short, and I thought it very strange. Anyway, happy Midsummer!
 
.. how many words do each of these...knowledge and understanding translate into for you?
We have those which combine knowledge and understanding - Jnana or Prajna. There is no word for knowledge alone. Knowledge includes understanding (otherwise there is no knowledge).
midsummer? for us the equinox is the beginning of summer....and only our pagans get a lot out of it...but the moon...the moon...
Today, the sun begins its journey southwards - 'Dakshinayana' - inauspicious half of the year for the believers.
 
I generally speak Swedish, the same linguistic roots so it very translatable. I'm thankful for spell check though, in any language.

We have those which combine knowledge and understanding - Jnana or Prajna. There is no word for knowledge alone. Knowledge includes understanding (otherwise there is no knowledge).

Is there an important distinction between Jnana and Prajna that is relevant to the topic? I will have to think on the fact that 'without understanding there is no knowledge', it feels like there is something to know there.
 
To help you, this (Wikipedia)

Jnana/Gnana: "Famous mantra in this relationship says: "Om ajnana timirandhasya..." (I was born in ajnana, agnosticism, but my spiritual master opened my eyes with fire of transcendental knowledge, jnana). .. In Vedas it means true knowledge, that one's (jiva's) self, or he himself as soul (atman) is identical (in quality sense) with Ultimate Reality Brahman. It is also referred to as Atma Jnana which is frequently translated as self-realization.

Prajna/Pragna (rhymes with pregnant): Prajnanam iti Brahman (Aitareya Upanishad, RigVeda) - Wisdom is the soul/spirit. Prajnanam refers to the intuitive truth which can be verified/tested by reason. It is a higher function of the intellect that ascertains the Sat or Truth in the Sat-Chit-Ananda or truth-consciousness-bliss, i.e. the Brahman/Atman/Self/person [...] A truly wise person [...] is known as Prajna - who has attained Brahmanhood itself; thus, testifying to the Vedic Maha Vakya (great saying or words of wisdom).

If I were to translate it, I would say 'Knowing makes one realize that the universe and all contained in it is non-dual and constituted by one entity, physical energy, and that person becomes it'. This idea is repeated in Mundaka Upanishad, which says 'Brahma Veda Brahmaiva Bhavati' (One who knows Brahman, verily becomes it). Why do I add this, because I am an atheist and I do not believe in existence of a Supreme God or soul.

When one understands fully, then it is Gnana or Pragna. Otherwise, as books say, it is a repetition by a parrot. Common pronunciation: Gyana, Pragya. http://spokensanskrit.de/
 
Correction: Not agnosticism. 'ajnana timirandhasya' means 'in the darkness of ignorance'. The one who made the entry in Wikipedia is a hindu theist adding things which are not there.
 
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