Dondi said:
My question in regards to human cloning is would we also clone the human soul or even that bit of "permanent atom" you refer to? If so, are we two or one with the clone?
What if they made our clone at the other end of the transport, could we not just try to figure our how to transport our "permanent atom" and then we can pop up and then go look at the Eiffel Tower on our vacation in Paris? It would solve the problem of trying to transport the whole body.
Well, this is what's so neat about speculating about these things. We have so many unanswered questions right now!
lol But you remind me of something neat I haven't thought of for awhile, with the Paris vaction bit ... (
below)
As for the soul, my belief is that it is
literally outside of time and space, as the usual phrase goes ... yet also outside of something else very important:
concrete thought. Esotericists "place" it (not spatially, just relationally) in the "upper" (again, what does this
mean) portions of the mental world - in every bit of 5 dimensions. It corresponds to the "Temple of Solomon," speaking symbolically.
But the real irony, or paradox about the soul, is that although esoteric students refer to it is the true "Individual" (vs. our mortal, ephemeral, projected personalities) ... in truth a deeper or more correct understanding is that there is literally
one soul for all of Humanity. I confess that this understanding is utterly beyond me, and perhaps that is why
concrete mind (which
is particular for each different person, obviously) cannot fully grasp this Unified or Wholistic nature of the soul.
We do all seem to have various types of recognition of this, mostly being the combined information from our feelings, thoughts, inspirations & illuminations (which come from "Higher Mind" - or Soul), as well as from the Intuition (a Divine faculty of knowing, belonging to the Soul at the level of its true Unity,
beyond Mind altogether).
One metaphor that I like, in considering the relationship of our Individual Soul (the Reincarnating principle, if one believes in that) to the true, wholistic Soul of all Humanity, is that the latter is a giant disco-ball
... sparkling and whirling and reflecting literally billions of different colors, lights, experiences, etc. Each of us, then, as a soul - is like one tiny
facet of that disco-ball. Sounds kinda wild I guess, but at least that part corresponds with life as we know it!
lol
Of course, a less chaotic version would be to ponder the same relationship as revealed in one of those neat little hanging crystal things - the really big ones, which convey the above idea somewhat more eloquently, and allow us to understand how this is not Borg-like ... but much, much more beautiful.
(Had to throw a little STNG in there for the mix!)
Not meaning to get too far away from teleportation, the above might help to answer the question about how/whether to transfer Souls. To be clear:
imho, it's a non-issue, since the soul
as such occupies neither time, space, or even ordinary human thought. The portions which do, are the ones we need to consider ... and other than
nephesh (the etheric body, or morphogenetic field, and its counterpart, the flesh), there are the emotional double & aura, plus the mental double & aura. Mind, the last of these, can probably be excluded, being outside of time ... but what about the "double" and aura - in the astral?
My understanding of permanent atoms is that only one of these
can exist, as the extension, or point of contact, between each soul and the physical (or astral) world. Quite simply, we will not likely develop the power to clone/copy or (re)construct these, because they represent some of the most evolved (physical) matter in existence! To be able to duplicate one would require, in my estimation, literally God-like powers ... and I have never read of this happening. If it did, then my guess would be that
by definition, two human beings
would exist, exact duplicates, and both equally the incarnation of the same soul.
This begins to get complicated though ... (or is it? If there really is ONE Human Soul, isn't this simply -
Reality? )
Wil really sparked something by mentioning this reassembling/coalescence process. The literature I am familiar with describes what happens when an advanced being decides to "manifest" or materialize. Part of the difficulty involved is that
not just any substance will do. What is required, when considering a human being - especially an advanced one - is the coalescence of matter which corresonds
precisely to the state of evolution of the being involved. Certainly spiritual evolution is what's meant, but the notion that this does not have a parallel at the levels of mind, emotions, and body ... is a foreign one to esoteric students.
So in short, for a Master of the Wisdom (or a Paramahamsa -
which means "Great Swan") to assemble his outermost body - even just to appear
visible, let alone to become solid enough to touch - requires matter of an
enormously developed quality. He cannot simply
create it out of nothing, or convert the energy of a higher world, as this violates one or the other of very important laws (unbreakable!). In the first case,
ex nihilo, nihil fit (out of nothing, nothing comes), but in the second case, this would be to create an artificial or arbitrary influx of energy-become-substance, which I'm thinking has something to do with free will! I'm a little out of my depth
- so this is just a guess.
But inasmuch as vision of Angels and various Heavenly figures have been described, isn't it usually (or often) true that they appear inchoate, somewhat
vague, or to use the best word of all -
subtle? The above might explain somewhat the reason for this. Devas/angels abide by these same laws, even if it is
their Orders whom and which are responsible for the weaving & arrangement of matter (on all the planes) to begin with!
Too much for me to take in ... I'm afraid ... but how about a nice Parisian vacation? The part you reminded me of, Dondi, is a vision of the semi-distant future as provided by Robert Monroe in one of his latter two books (either
Far Journeys or
Ultimate Journey). He describes a simpler solution to this problem. Humanity having by this point (okay, it's a long way off) evolved to the degree that many/most of our responsibilities now require us to be
out of the physical body, he describes a scene, or a condition, in which people "leave them" propped up against trees, or in other settings conducive to what is required. Safety is a non-issue, he's describing a vision of Responsible Humanity, not the planet as it now exists. Violence would be unthinkable!
But in short, I suppose the term
communistic or
shared possession is pretty much what applies. Some people might be shocked, frightened, or offended to even consider it. Absurd, I say, because - although I'm not sure most of us are
ready for this yet, I admire the virtues and qualities (don't we all) that would be required for this to happen. The "this" is simply that, if I'm out and about, say somewhere in India, and the nature of my work unexpectedly requires that I make physical contact, I won't need to physically travel, or even teleport. The teleportation is already accomplished, we do it every night, during sleep, and also permanently, at death (or until later). So what do I do? I "borrow" my fellow human's body for a bit.
And it's as simple as that, though again, obviously not quite
on the horizon for us until many years hence. Presumably, the purposes involved here would be "business" or service-oriented. I'm wondering if we even
could evolve to the point where a vacation in Paris would be proper, as seen through someone else's eyes - literally.
lol It almost seems a contradiction in terms! But, perhaps at some point, once trust, peace and safety are the ABC of our existence ... "borrowing" someone "else's" body - for
whatever purpose, however personal, will no longer seem as repulsive or frightening as it does at present. Fears, and legitimate spiritual or psychic threats, are current obstacles to anything like this happening yet, although I think there are cases throughout history where it has already occurred, long ago (even involving the most famous two individuals in human history! - but that's for another thread).
Frankly, the idea is so profound and appealing to me .... that, combined with the basic understanding I've come to have of the nature of the Soul(s) - I have done my own speculating that this Vision is perhaps the
tiniest glimpse of what life is like on the other planets. Esotericists regard most of the planets around us as "Sacred," while Earth and Mars are still
non-sacred, although we are "on the cusp" of (one stage of) the great transition. What if the Humanities of these other planets (which obviously exist in non-physical matter) resemble somewhat Monroe's vision in terms of their relationship with one another. Telepathic rapport would be the
least of their developments. And would we not agree, that
only working in such an orchestrated, connected manner could the
highest purposes of planetary evolution be pursued/accomplished? Hmmm ....
Oops, the teleportation thing
transports me into the only context in which I think it can/will/would fit. Sorry for the verbosity and such. But let's face it, either we evolve more closely to Gene Roddenberry's vision of a
United Federation of (umm DUH Nations first, then) Planets ... or - like, umm ... this discussion, and all of them, will be moot.
So Here's to Roddenberry, and a Peaceful Future for ALL!!!
Namaskara,
andrew
for "Alexa!")
