U.S. Air Force Takes a Look at Teleportation

Quahom1 said:
Violation of the Seven Noahidic laws...Even in war, that would be unethical.

my thoughts

v/r

Q
Law!?! Ethics!?! Ahem! errr, Q, YOU may be an exception to the rule (I should think so), or I would even go so far as to say MANY soldiers are such an exception. But SINCE WHEN has law or ethics ever been of any concern to the military? The last speech to that effect that I recall was good ol' Ike's address regarding the dangers of the growing military-industrial complex ... and we didn't give a rat's arse about that THEN - much less in the past 50 years!!!

Put your skeptic/disinformation/conspiracy theorist hat on, then go poking around on google under HAARP, tesla death ray and a few other choice terms. Honestly, sometimes I'm surprised there's an earth to wake up to. No offense to people of strong faith, but their error is in believing that God's will would somehow prevent mankind's will from mucking things up on a colossal scale - so colossal as a planet, AGAIN. Hey, we've done it before (the moon) ... and so did somebody else, it would seem. Since this is the science thread - notice that big GAP in our solar system where another planet COULD HAVE FIT. Oh gee, there's an ASTEROID BELT there now - between Mars and Jupiter. Hmmm, I wonder who USED to live there. :eek::( (Hint, it wasn't always just a bunch of rocks.)

Does the concept scare me of the MILITARY being at the forefront when it comes to Humanity's experimentation with planet-obliterating technology? Hell yes!!! Even teleportation is frightening enough! Do I think some fifteen star general (okay, five stars and enough pretty ornaments to make another ten) is gonna give a damn about some kind of Biblical Law??? ummm ... sorry Q, maybe I misunderstood. Is that really what you were suggesting? No, certainly I must have misunderstood! sorry ....

taijasi
 
Hmmmm....I've been reading on news sites the last two days or so that the newest version of the US Army field manual is going to drop all requirements for the armed forces to comply with international rules regarding prisoner abuse during interrogation circumstances.

Yup, I also saw enough evidence as a contracting officer at a research university over the years that I now just have a hard time trusting the military, industrial, entertainment complex to use any new technologies in productive ways for the betterment of humankind.

Sorry Q, but I really do like and appreciate the content in the great majority your posts.

flow....:confused:
 
Did I open a can of worms or what??
sheesh....
I have really got to get rid of this bad habit.
:cool:
 
YO-ELEVEN-11 said:
Did I open a can of worms or what??
sheesh....
I have really got to get rid of this bad habit.
:cool:
No, Yo-Eleven-11, I'm the one who ran with it ...

taijasi
 
Dondi said:
Well, taij, we'll just have to transport you to the Klingons, where you'll be no tribble at all. :D
Oh NOOOOOOO ... :p

good one! (although it made me groan) ;)

taijasi
 
taijasi said:
Law!?! Ethics!?! Ahem! errr, Q, YOU may be an exception to the rule (I should think so), or I would even go so far as to say MANY soldiers are such an exception. But SINCE WHEN has law or ethics ever been of any concern to the military? The last speech to that effect that I recall was good ol' Ike's address regarding the dangers of the growing military-industrial complex ... and we didn't give a rat's arse about that THEN - much less in the past 50 years!!!

Put your skeptic/disinformation/conspiracy theorist hat on, then go poking around on google under HAARP, tesla death ray and a few other choice terms. Honestly, sometimes I'm surprised there's an earth to wake up to. No offense to people of strong faith, but their error is in believing that God's will would somehow prevent mankind's will from mucking things up on a colossal scale - so colossal as a planet, AGAIN. Hey, we've done it before (the moon) ... and so did somebody else, it would seem. Since this is the science thread - notice that big GAP in our solar system where another planet COULD HAVE FIT. Oh gee, there's an ASTEROID BELT there now - between Mars and Jupiter. Hmmm, I wonder who USED to live there. :eek::( (Hint, it wasn't always just a bunch of rocks.)

Does the concept scare me of the MILITARY being at the forefront when it comes to Humanity's experimentation with planet-obliterating technology? Hell yes!!! Even teleportation is frightening enough! Do I think some fifteen star general (okay, five stars and enough pretty ornaments to make another ten) is gonna give a damn about some kind of Biblical Law??? ummm ... sorry Q, maybe I misunderstood. Is that really what you were suggesting? No, certainly I must have misunderstood! sorry ....

taijasi

I do not dispute your concerns. I can only tell you about me and mine (my service). For example Taij, you know that ungodly chemical we keep in a spray can attached to our gun belts (on the opposite side of our side arm, loaded with something other than ball ammunition)? It's called pepper spray (Capsicum in concentrated doses you won't find commercially). And that stuff will stop an elephant dead in its tracks. It makes Mace feel like Sun tan oil on a mild summer day. It will make most people (I don't care how big and bad), become helpless, blithering, drooling, mucus expressing blobs of human mass...for hours, and water, salt and sweat only exasperates the condition...:eek:

And did you know, that every boarding officer (military member) who carries that can, can not carry that can, until they have successfully survived being sprayed (open eyed and open mouthed), for 3-5 seconds, then they have to defend themselves from three to five "bad guys", and keep their side arm from being taken from them, for up to three minutes (which means they are sweating, and they must keep their eyes open to see where the bad guys are, despite the excruciating pain). Then they must draw down with their side arm, and keep the bad guys in sight at all times, for an additional minute.

After that, they can go and throw up for the next hour or so, and try to tear their own face, off...how do I know? I made 50 COPIES of MY CERTIFICATE of successful completion, so I NEVER have to experience that part of the training again...:eek: :p

And yes, for several weeks we are indoctrinated prior to actually experiencing "the test". It still doesn't lower the shock value, when it happens.

Why? So we know exactly what is going to happen to the individual we decide to use it on (and we are reluctant to use it). And we are prepared to get some of it on ourselves and still perform our duties. And we know how to treat them, once we get their actions neutralized.

Who ordered us to go through this type of training? The four star that runs this military branch of the service. And believe it or not, he went through it as well FIRST. (lol)

I think there is hope...

v/r

Q
 
taijasi said:
Law!?! Ethics!?! Ahem! errr, Q, YOU may be an exception to the rule (I should think so), or I would even go so far as to say MANY soldiers are such an exception. But SINCE WHEN has law or ethics ever been of any concern to the military? The last speech to that effect that I recall was good ol' Ike's address regarding the dangers of the growing military-industrial complex ... and we didn't give a rat's arse about that THEN - much less in the past 50 years!!!

Put your skeptic/disinformation/conspiracy theorist hat on, then go poking around on google under HAARP, tesla death ray and a few other choice terms. Honestly, sometimes I'm surprised there's an earth to wake up to. No offense to people of strong faith, but their error is in believing that God's will would somehow prevent mankind's will from mucking things up on a colossal scale - so colossal as a planet, AGAIN. Hey, we've done it before (the moon) ... and so did somebody else, it would seem. Since this is the science thread - notice that big GAP in our solar system where another planet COULD HAVE FIT. Oh gee, there's an ASTEROID BELT there now - between Mars and Jupiter. Hmmm, I wonder who USED to live there. :eek::( (Hint, it wasn't always just a bunch of rocks.)

Does the concept scare me of the MILITARY being at the forefront when it comes to Humanity's experimentation with planet-obliterating technology? Hell yes!!! Even teleportation is frightening enough! Do I think some fifteen star general (okay, five stars and enough pretty ornaments to make another ten) is gonna give a damn about some kind of Biblical Law??? ummm ... sorry Q, maybe I misunderstood. Is that really what you were suggesting? No, certainly I must have misunderstood! sorry ....

taijasi

I do not dispute your concerns. I can only tell you about me and mine (my service). For example Taij, you know that ungodly chemical we keep in a spray can attached to our gun belts (on the opposite side of our side arm, loaded with something other than ball ammunition)? It's called pepper spray (Capsicum in concentrated doses you won't find commercially). And that stuff will stop an elephant dead in its tracks. It makes Mace feel like Sun tan oil on a mild summer day. It will make most people (I don't care how big and bad), become helpless, blithering, drooling, mucus expressing blobs of human mass...for hours, and water, salt and sweat only exasperates the condition...:eek:

And did you know, that every boarding officer (military member) who carries that can, can not carry that can, until they have successfully survived being sprayed (open eyed and open mouthed), for 3-5 seconds, then they have to defend themselves from three to five "bad guys", and keep their side arm from being taken from them, for up to three minutes (which means they are sweating, and they must keep their eyes open to see where the bad guys are, despite the excruciating pain). Then they must draw down with their side arm, and keep the bad guys in sight at all times, for an additional minute.

After that, they can go and throw up for the next hour or so, and try to tear their own face, off...how do I know? I made 50 COPIES of MY CERTIFICATE of successful completion, so I NEVER have to experience that part of the training again...:eek: :p

And yes, for several weeks we are indoctrinated prior to actually experiencing "the test". It still doesn't lower the shock value, when it happens.

Why? So we know exactly what is going to happen to the individual we decide to use it on (and we are reluctant to use it). And we are prepared to get some of it on ourselves and still perform our duties. And we know how to treat them, once we get their actions neutralized.

Who ordered us to go through this type of training? The four star that runs this military branch of the service. And believe it or not, he went through it as well FIRST. (lol)

I think there is hope...

v/r

Q
 
Taij,

I would also like to point out something you might have missed. The US perfected the Neutron bomb, a long time ago. But unilaterally the US decided it wasn't something we wanted in our arsenal. Why? Too heinous a weapon. It could wipe out an entire city (of people, animals, insects), but leave the city structures intact. The radiation would be gone in days (or weeks), but so would every living soul. Indiscriminant erradication of life, does not sit well with our government, or military. Plus, it would kill everyone immediately, so knowing they were dead anyway, the enemy might fight fanatically during the few days they had left.

Russia, built the biggest nuclear weapon man ever had (1961). The Tsar Bomba, or code name "Ivan", was rated at 100 megatons. They toned it down to 50 megatons, and blew it up over an island in the arctic. Had they unleased the full capacity of the bomb's potential, the "test" would have resulted in lethal radiation over some 160,000 square miles (the state of Ohio), and most of the explosion would have gone into space (taking a good chunk of our atmosphere with it). No other bomb of such magnitude has been built since.

And yes, the asteroid belt has the makings of a destroyed planetoid, or tiny moon, but in reality, the total mass of the asteroid belt only makes up about 4% of the mass of the earth's Moon, and 1/3rd of that mass is accounted for by Ceres, which basically means, an "asteroid" was shattered into smaller asteroids. Even Pluto has more mass.

v/r

Q
 
Quahom1 said:
And yes, the asteroid belt has the makings of a destroyed planetoid, or tiny moon, but in reality, the total mass of the asteroid belt only makes up about 4% of the mass of the earth's Moon, and 1/3rd of that mass is accounted for by Ceres, which basically means, an "asteroid" was shattered into smaller asteroids. Even Pluto has more mass.

v/r

Q
Q,

I was interested by everything you said, and really didn't plan to reply - except that this last point is almost more in keeping with the topic of the thread, and I think it's worth pointing out that if there were a planetary disaster, it would be ancient - so "missing mass" may not be an issue after all. I have yet to read a full explanation of the catastrophe, but my best guess would be ... perhaps some of the very moons of Jupiter - were once a part of (even the heart of) the "missing planet."

Take the case with our moon, for example. It is older than our earth by many billions of years. Once it nearly approximated the Earth in size; for all intents & purposes it WAS the earth. Much of the material of the moon was drawn off and used in building this present planet Earth ... leaving behind the much smaller, dead planet we call `moon' - which will NEVER support human life (again). Science will be able to prove this one day, perhaps soon enough. Until then, it may sound like a wild theory, certainly not endorsed in the astronomy textbooks of today ... just as once, the entire COSMOS - orbited Earth. :rolleyes:

Anyway, I'm glad that any MP carrying pepper spray knows what he's about to do before using it. Maybe we could set up nuclear testing and use of our nuclear arsenals in the same way. I dunno, say, put anyone who has the potential to "push the button" on that little island - ALL of them, all the various leaders, even the terrorists with their suitcase bombs.

Then, KABOOM - this is what you'd be unleashing ... how does it feel?

Hmmm .... I guess our problem wouldn't be gone altogether, but I'd sure as heck feel better about it. :D

No, I'm not making light of your training; that part I take seriously. But not nearly as seriously as the notion/fact that it's always the MILITARY that plays around with new technologies, figures out their greatest possible destructive-strategic-defensive capability ... then tosses their hand-me-downs over their shoulder to let the rest of us play with them for awhile. I do not even say that this is reversed - just that it is problematic. And at this stage in our evolution (or lack thereof) - it may be necessary. :(

I'm re-watching some of the old Dr. Who episodes, with Tom Baker, typical cheesy 70s stuff with awful special effects due to low budget - hmmm, kinda like Star Trek. ;) But it's the perfect medium for exploring questions like the topic of the OP, as the Doctor spends more time helping to thwart the machinations of a misguided humanity, and only fights evil aliens here & there. After all, Star Trek wasn't really about space exploration per se - mostly it was about US!!!

ciao ...

taijasi
 
taijasi said:
...I think it's worth pointing out that if there were a planetary disaster, it would be ancient - so "missing mass" may not be an issue after all. I have yet to read a full explanation of the catastrophe, but my best guess would be ... perhaps some of the very moons of Jupiter - were once a part of (even the heart of) the "missing planet."

Take the case with our moon, for example. It is older than our earth by many billions of years. Once it nearly approximated the Earth in size; for all intents & purposes it WAS the earth. Much of the material of the moon was drawn off and used in building this present planet Earth ... leaving behind the much smaller, dead planet we call `moon' - which will NEVER support human life (again). Science will be able to prove this one day, perhaps soon enough. Until then, it may sound like a wild theory, certainly not endorsed in the astronomy textbooks of today ... just as once, the entire COSMOS - orbited Earth. :rolleyes:

...it's always the MILITARY that plays around with new technologies, figures out their greatest possible destructive-strategic-defensive capability ... then tosses their hand-me-downs over their shoulder to let the rest of us play with them for awhile. I do not even say that this is reversed - just that it is problematic. And at this stage in our evolution (or lack thereof) - it may be necessary. :(

I'm re-watching some of the old Dr. Who episodes, with Tom Baker, typical cheesy 70s stuff with awful special effects due to low budget - hmmm, kinda like Star Trek. ;) But it's the perfect medium for exploring questions like the topic of the OP, as the Doctor spends more time helping to thwart the machinations of a misguided humanity, and only fights evil aliens here & there. After all, Star Trek wasn't really about space exploration per se - mostly it was about US!!!

ciao ...

taijasi

The surface of the moon is older because it does not have the erosion that the earth has, not because it is older than the earth in general. NASA experts opine that the Moon came from the earth during a massive asteroid impact in the south pole (which was facing sideways at one time 4.6 billion years ago. It never supported life, though it did have molten and geological activity twice (at 4.2 billion years and again at 3.6 billion years ago). All other moons (three of them), are larger than the moon and almost as large as Mars, and they do have atmospheres, geological activity, and a magnetisphere (mars does not have a magnetisphere, and neither does the moon). One is found in orbit around Jupiter, and the other two are orbiting Saturn and Neptune.

It is the civilian sector that creates the machinery for the military to use (think Ford, Chrysler, General Motors, Lockheed Martin, Grumman Northrup, Boeing, Tupelov, Mikoyan and Gurevich, Sukhoi, Mitsubishi, Yakolev), and then searches for other markets on the side.

I'm not certain I would compare Dr. Who of the Seventies to ST of the Sixties, unless you are willing to point out that both dealt with people at a base level, and used Science as a medium to carry that. And if you are, then Dr. Who was years behind the writers of ST.

Case in point: (which brings us right back to the original thought of this thread)...Name one thing the writers of Dr. Who dreamed of something "futuristic" yet plausible? I can name several dozen items that ST came up with that do not look so different from what we use and take for granted every day...;)

Shall I count the ways? :D

Also, let us consider your greatest fear...the unleasing of the power of the atom for war...It has been 61 years since the last nuke was used in "anger". That is almost the life span of an average man, or one life cycle generation. Since then we have seen two close calls (with peaceful nuclear use gone awry), and two total meltdowns. But man has not deliberately launced such destructive force against man, since 1945.

However, maybe your Dr. Who and our ST, has something to do with that. We see what could happen, and we never forget the lessons those shows teach us. I know for fact that my own sons remember Biblical stories vividly, when they viewed re-inactment of them as opposed to reading about them...interesting thought. Perhaps holywood has taken up where the stories told around a campfire at night, left off, as far as our learning lessons in morality and technology...

Very interesting Taij. (you make me think). ;)

v/r

Q
 
Quahom1 said:
The surface of the moon is older because it does not have the erosion that the earth has, not because it is older than the earth in general. NASA experts opine that the Moon came from the earth during a massive asteroid impact in the south pole (which was facing sideways at one time 4.6 billion years ago. It never supported life, though it did have molten and geological activity twice (at 4.2 billion years and again at 3.6 billion years ago).
Only because this is erroneous, I would pull a quote or two off the web, and give some references ... it's worth correcting the error:
"The moon is far older than previously imagined, perhaps even much older than the earth and sun. By examining tracks burned into moon rocks by cosmic rays, scientists have dated them as billions of years old. Some have been dated back 4.5 billion years, far older than the earth and "nearly as old as the solar system," according to Jastrow. The oldest rocks ever found on Earth only date back 3.5 billion years. It is accepted by scientists today that the earth is about 4.6 billion years old. Harvard's respected astronomy journal, Sky and Telescope, reported that at the Lunar Conference of 1973, it was revealed that one moon rock was dated at 5.3 billion years old, which would make it almost a billion years older than our planet. This puzzle was compounded by the fact that the lunar dust in which the rocks were found proved to be a billion years older than the rocks themselves. Chemical analysis showed that the moon rocks were of a completely different composition from the soil around them. Since dusty soil is usually produced by the weathering and breakup of surrounding rocks, the lunar rocks must have come from someplace other than where they were found. But where?" (link, and note that the source of the above is JASTROW, presumably a scientist, not the author of the book in question ... reference is ALSO made to the '73 Lunar Conference!!! look it up!)
But here's more - I would refer you to the following writeup (http://www.rense.com/general69/moon.htm) which contains PLENTY of scholarly references, and not mere speculation, regarding the age and PRESENCE OF A MAGNETISPHERE on the the moon, as follows:
[SIZE=+1]"The above summary [see link] tells us that a solar wind appears be affected by a mini-magnetosphere! Yet other researchers claim this field cannot exist! Perhaps the true nature and characteristics of the solar wind are not fully understood." (source is apparently Lin, et al)
[/SIZE]​
Now, interestingly, the author that pulls together the data for this article is essentially arguing for an artificial origin for the moon, and is also interested in what "NASA isn't telling us about Mars!" The earlier reference and excerpt is from a book about aliens! And frankly, I'm not sure I'd agree with many of the conclusions made by either author. However, the references they make are sound. And the evidence does point to the moon being substantially older than the Earth - by as much as a billion years!!! Google it, you might find it interesting ...

But I don't care if you tell me that the experts concur in deciding the moon really contains old PICKLE-JUICE ... or is made of swiss cheese after all! :rolleyes: I'm telling you that even if you and I have been long dead & gone for twelve billion years, ONE DAY it will simply be knowledge as common as dirt - that the moon preceeded the Earth, and that once upon a time, evolution occurred there, as here. Things went very, very wrong, Divine Intervention occurred, evolution was aborted, so to speak ... but not in the sense that progress was lost - just that no further development occurred.

Eventually, that planet slipped into pralaya, or "sleep" - during which time its substance was gradually siphoned off to help in the forming of THIS planet. What is left is a dead, decaying orb, incapable of supporting life, yet whose next incarnation does support life, continuing the Divine Plan which was offset all those years ago. We even recapitulated the disaster during Atlantean times, but so far, we have not gotten nearly so far off track. Only time will tell if we can get past our present hurdles. But having death rays capable of obliterating entire planets - our own or otherwise - does not bode well for us. And just because no one has pushed the button in 60 years, doesn't mean some idiot won't precipitate WWIII tomorrow. I prefer to act as if, and presume that things will progress as they should! And as I say elsewhere, it is not God-willing, it is HUMANITY-willing!!! :eek: We've just got to try and make sure the right hand knows what the left is doing, and work to make sure that the body is no longer divided against itself. "If thine eye is single ... "

And yes, some children do like to play war, or throw sticks 'n stones ... but younger children still tend to smile and get along. I believe it was the latter "little children" whom Christ meant in Matthew 18:3. And please, nobody beat me over the head for quoting scripture on a secular forum! :p I know, I know ...

peace,

taijasi
 
That is quite ok. I'll debate with you on this all day long. I've been studying the Solar system since the day I realized it existed...

And I do have direct access to the voices at NASA (who despite their "erroneous" ways, manage to get computers and people out past our little planet, and I'm not bragging). They use the same brilliant minds of speculation that you do. They have found different things, mostly because they have either been there physically, or through the magic of computers and sensors and robots. We truly can explore this issue in depth.

v/r

Q
 
Incredible. I always knew science fiction literature and movies will end with a serious investigation and research by the scientists.

Maybe you would not belive this, but U.S. Air Force regards the military potential of teleportation. Not a bad thing to have movies like Star Trek and Stargate S.G.1, after all.:D




Here you have the article on space.com :

[URL]http://www.space.com/businesstechnology/technovel_teleport_041103.html[/URL]


The first person to ever use the teleportation capsule... I will put a bet that their quote will be "Beam me up Scotty..." diiiiiing dong! :D
 
The USS Eldridge (a DDG) Escort Destroyer, home ported in Phildelphia in 1943, allegedly had massive electromagnetic generators installed to test the theory that light spectrum of energy could be "bent" around an object, thus rendering the object RADAR invisible. According to folklore, the USS Eldridge went out into the middle of the harbor and engaged the generators, in the beginning and middle stages of the test the ship did become RADAR invisible, and all considered it a success. However, the generators continued to build up an electromagnetic field. People on the pier observed strange waves of distortion in the area around the Eldridge (like the shimmering view of the air just above a hot asphalt road in summer). Then, allegedly the USS Eldridge vanished from sight. There was allegedly still a depresion in the water, indicating the weight of the USS Eldridge still displacing that area of the harbor's water, but after a few seconds that depression was gone, causing the water to slap up into a geyser.

The lore continues on with the USS Eldridge suddenly appearing in Portmouth, Virginia with a green haze all around it, then it vanished the same way it did in Philidelphia. A few moments later the Eldridge re-appeared in Philidephia, where it originally floated, but there was a horrific sight on board, from observers on the shore. Men were running around the weather decks screaming and holding their heads. Others were allegedly fused with the bulkheads or decks, still alive, some. Most were burnt on various parts of the body.

Apparently the engineers shut down the generators, which caused the Eldridge to re-appear in Philidelphia.

Tales state that while the men on the weather decks suffered the most physically, those inside the skin of the ship suffered shock mentally. Everthing appeared translucent, including each other. Nothing was solid in appearance.

The Philidephia Experiment was a horrible success, according to the tales.

In the late 1980s the folklore gave food for a movie titled the Philidelphia Experiment, which starred Michael Pere.

That is one version of the alleged Philidelphia experiment.

v/r

Q

People believe this happened? Never heard of it (and didn't read this entire thread) But that is just bull**** lol.
 
What I find interesting is that the science-fiction from a SF movie or a book, has good chances to became the science from the future. Does this mean our scientists don't have any imagination and they need a SF writer to guide them into a future invention ?
The prophets of the new age are the science fiction writers.
 
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