A Cup Of Tea
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Nick the Pilot
Well-Known Member
"I will not give it a rest..."
--> Good for you!
--> Good for you!
Q
Quirkybird
Guest
Unless you have been the target of the more extreme element of the 'born again' mob, you probably haven't a clue what I am on about!
I'm responding for your sake ...
There is a saying: "You become what you think about ..." Ralph Waldo Emmerson said it. Business gurus say it. The world's literature is full of such cautionary tales.
One focusses on something, and by the tuning fork principle one begins to resonate to the same frequency, until all you see is prejudice, a mode of suffering, and it's a self-inflicted suffering. The stuff of their prejudice becomes the fuel that drives you ... that's all I'm getting at.
You become 'it'.
All you're doing is fuelling the fire, with your own substance, of other people's crap. By talking about it, you're processing other people's crap, and the next thing, you see the world as a crappy place. You see the Bible, which even atheists recognise as full of wisdom, as full of crap.
In the UK, UKIP have achieved remarkable results in the Euro elections. And what do they appeal to? Covert racism. And then they say, 'we're not racists!', but that's all they talk about, getting rid of foreigners. They've got no other policies than 'they are wrong', nothing about what's right, other than 'Britishness'. They're 'a one-trick pony'.
If you can't listen to the good, sound, common sense advice that fills the Bible, listen to the profoundly good advice of the Buddhist Tradition...
Metta bhavana. Give it a go. You'll see the world in a different light.
C'mon. I'm a Catholic. You don't think this attitude in literal fundamentalists drives me up the feckin' wall? You don't think 'rapture' and 'creationism' and 'intelligent design' leaves me wondering what the heck is going on in 'Christian America'?
Here's a demonstration. Read Psalm 136:8-9:
"O daughter of Babylon, miserable: blessed shall he be who shall repay thee thy payment which thou hast paid us. Blessed be he that shall take and dash thy little ones against the rock."
I'm a Catholic, but if anyone tries to justify their Christianity by blowing up abortion clinics (their personal Babylon) or killing those who work there, or catching their kids and beating their brains out on a rock, and that they'll be blessed in heaven for it ... then I think, 'you've got it so-o-o-o wrong.'
Have they heard not a word of what Christ said?
Are their hearts so hard?
And I know that the more you and I might rail against it, all we will do is reinforce their belief that they are right. Our resistance deepens their determination.
Love is the only cure.
Q
Quirkybird
Guest
Responding for my sake, Thomas? Oh wow that is really funny, thanks for the giggle!
I used to work for a company that myself and all of my coworkers loved. I mean, it was a joy just getting up in the morning to go to work.
One day, someone from corporate came and shut us down. Just like that we were out of business. No warning, no nothing. We all felt so betrayed.
I remember one of my co-workers going up to the man who was sent to pad-lock the doors and really letting him have it verbally. Now the fellow getting the abuse from my coworker had nothing to do with the business closing, he was just there to secure the building. Nevertheless, my coworker went on and on berating the poor fellow to no end.
Later, he did apologize, stating that he knew full well that this person had nothing to do with our business closing, but the individuals who were responsible were not there and this poor guy was.
I'm not saying it's right, but for a long time after that I myself despised similar businesses and often made derogatory comments about them. Sometimes you are hurt so deeply, that you just have to lash out at someone or something whether they are to blame or not. I think that's what's going on here.
So, don't take it personally folks, let QB vent!
One day, someone from corporate came and shut us down. Just like that we were out of business. No warning, no nothing. We all felt so betrayed.
I remember one of my co-workers going up to the man who was sent to pad-lock the doors and really letting him have it verbally. Now the fellow getting the abuse from my coworker had nothing to do with the business closing, he was just there to secure the building. Nevertheless, my coworker went on and on berating the poor fellow to no end.
Later, he did apologize, stating that he knew full well that this person had nothing to do with our business closing, but the individuals who were responsible were not there and this poor guy was.
I'm not saying it's right, but for a long time after that I myself despised similar businesses and often made derogatory comments about them. Sometimes you are hurt so deeply, that you just have to lash out at someone or something whether they are to blame or not. I think that's what's going on here.
So, don't take it personally folks, let QB vent!
Gordian Knot
Being Deviant IS My Art.
Quirky, when it comes to religion, Thomas and I are about as far apart in our beliefs as two people can get. Yet I think I can say we both respect each other. The reason for that intro sentence is this. Thomas went out of his way to try and reach you as one human to another.
You responded with a slap to his face. I am insulted by your response and it isn't even aimed at me. You want to lash out at Christianity. Fine. Taking it out on an individual on this forum is not fine. Get a grip.
You responded with a slap to his face. I am insulted by your response and it isn't even aimed at me. You want to lash out at Christianity. Fine. Taking it out on an individual on this forum is not fine. Get a grip.
Q
Quirkybird
Guest
Hi Namaste Jesus,
From a 'secular psychology' pov, vent away. Get it off your chest, if it makes you feel any better.
But from a 'spiritual psychology' pov, where such qualities as self-discipline, self-determination, detachment etc., are held in high regard, 'venting' is not good for you at all, it's actually detrimental to one's spiritual wellbeing. It's just a self-indulgence, really, a 'playing to the gallery' of the ego and infers a lack of maturity, self-awareness and control.
The emphasis here is, I hope, illumination, not recrimination.
In fact, thinking about it, a secular psychologist could rightly take issue with my words — and might suggest it's harmful in the secular sense:
to vent once is OK, if that makes you feel better, but it hasn't really achieved anything, no matter how satisfying it might feel;
to vent about the same thing more than once might infer an obsession;
to vent about the same thing, to and at people who have done nothing to trigger it, might suggest a mania.
Am I making too much of this?
Secularly, probably that could well be the opinion. Spiritually, it's axiomatic of the spiritual life that things rise in the unseen (causes) before they manifest in the seen (symptom).
So, no. Wiser and less painful for all is to 'nip it in the bud' before the fire is out of control.
'Great oaks from little acorns', and all that.
There's a famous Buddhist story:
Two monks were on a journey. Traditionally, the wise one is older, the foolish one young. I think that's a bit ageist, so ... one bright and shiny morning, two monks approach a river, where a woman stood on the bank, fearful of whether she was able enough to wade across the fast-running waters.
One of the monks walks straight by and crosses the river. The other says, "Hop on" and he carries her on his back to the far bank, where they and she go their separate ways. She dropped a penny in his bowl (my addition).
It soon became apparent to the carrier-monk that something was troubling his companion, but he didn't like to interfere. Come dusk however, the other monk is off his food. So the carrier-monk asked if anything was the matter.
"How could you?" vents the monk. "Carrying a woman! Have you forgotten your vows? Have you taken leave of your senses?"
To which the monk replies: "I put that woman down at the rivers edge. When are you going to put her down?"
Or, from my Tradition, 'turn the other cheek'.
The esoteric lesson:
The carrier monk performs a good, and receives an unasked-for good in return. That's a bright and sunny morning, and two goods done, and even before lunch, the world is a better place than it was.
The other monk had brought his own cloud to the day, and walks under it the entire time.
The occult lesson:
The 'astral body' lives in the blood. In many traditions it's called 'The Blood Body'. Anything that heats the blood 'dissolves' or 'disperses' the Blood Body.
Now, if the cooling process is undertaken under the wise and watchful gaze of a guru, a geront, a steretz, a shaman, a master, a hierophant, a priest or priestess, a spiritual director, an anam-cara, a guide, a wise friend, then the heating of the blood becomes a means of tempering the soul/blood body/call it what you will.
But allowed to heat and cool unchecked (and we can't check ourselves when we're running hot, all we can do is suffer it), nearly always leads to unfortunate consequences; distortion, malformation, at its worst, possession ...
The martial arts lesson:
Loose your cool, and you're dead.
As I said before, you're creating your very own personal and portable Gehanna. Wherever you are, it is.
The Christian literal/tropological/analogical/anagogical lesson:
Matthew 12:43-45, Luke 11:24-26.
'Nuff said.
I think the distinction here is this is a forum to discuss faith matters, and this is a 'belief and spirituality' board.So, don't take it personally folks, let QB vent!
From a 'secular psychology' pov, vent away. Get it off your chest, if it makes you feel any better.
But from a 'spiritual psychology' pov, where such qualities as self-discipline, self-determination, detachment etc., are held in high regard, 'venting' is not good for you at all, it's actually detrimental to one's spiritual wellbeing. It's just a self-indulgence, really, a 'playing to the gallery' of the ego and infers a lack of maturity, self-awareness and control.
The emphasis here is, I hope, illumination, not recrimination.
In fact, thinking about it, a secular psychologist could rightly take issue with my words — and might suggest it's harmful in the secular sense:
to vent once is OK, if that makes you feel better, but it hasn't really achieved anything, no matter how satisfying it might feel;
to vent about the same thing more than once might infer an obsession;
to vent about the same thing, to and at people who have done nothing to trigger it, might suggest a mania.
Am I making too much of this?
Secularly, probably that could well be the opinion. Spiritually, it's axiomatic of the spiritual life that things rise in the unseen (causes) before they manifest in the seen (symptom).
So, no. Wiser and less painful for all is to 'nip it in the bud' before the fire is out of control.
'Great oaks from little acorns', and all that.
There's a famous Buddhist story:
Two monks were on a journey. Traditionally, the wise one is older, the foolish one young. I think that's a bit ageist, so ... one bright and shiny morning, two monks approach a river, where a woman stood on the bank, fearful of whether she was able enough to wade across the fast-running waters.
One of the monks walks straight by and crosses the river. The other says, "Hop on" and he carries her on his back to the far bank, where they and she go their separate ways. She dropped a penny in his bowl (my addition).
It soon became apparent to the carrier-monk that something was troubling his companion, but he didn't like to interfere. Come dusk however, the other monk is off his food. So the carrier-monk asked if anything was the matter.
"How could you?" vents the monk. "Carrying a woman! Have you forgotten your vows? Have you taken leave of your senses?"
To which the monk replies: "I put that woman down at the rivers edge. When are you going to put her down?"
Or, from my Tradition, 'turn the other cheek'.
The esoteric lesson:
The carrier monk performs a good, and receives an unasked-for good in return. That's a bright and sunny morning, and two goods done, and even before lunch, the world is a better place than it was.
The other monk had brought his own cloud to the day, and walks under it the entire time.
The occult lesson:
The 'astral body' lives in the blood. In many traditions it's called 'The Blood Body'. Anything that heats the blood 'dissolves' or 'disperses' the Blood Body.
Now, if the cooling process is undertaken under the wise and watchful gaze of a guru, a geront, a steretz, a shaman, a master, a hierophant, a priest or priestess, a spiritual director, an anam-cara, a guide, a wise friend, then the heating of the blood becomes a means of tempering the soul/blood body/call it what you will.
But allowed to heat and cool unchecked (and we can't check ourselves when we're running hot, all we can do is suffer it), nearly always leads to unfortunate consequences; distortion, malformation, at its worst, possession ...
The martial arts lesson:
Loose your cool, and you're dead.
As I said before, you're creating your very own personal and portable Gehanna. Wherever you are, it is.
The Christian literal/tropological/analogical/anagogical lesson:
Matthew 12:43-45, Luke 11:24-26.
'Nuff said.
A Cup Of Tea
Well-Known Member
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So, don't take it personally folks, let QB vent!
It's not venting, it's being wilfully ignorant and joyful taking it out on anyone who wants to listen. She's only interested in her own voice being heard at the expense of everyone around her.
The man in your example realised his mistake, Q never will. So what possible good is coming from her?
Oh well... I tried. This is a case where neither side wants to see the other's point of view. Shame really.
For what it's worth, I really like what Thomas said to QB in post #84. Too bad it did not have the desired affect. Can't win 'em all I suppose.
For what it's worth, I really like what Thomas said to QB in post #84. Too bad it did not have the desired affect. Can't win 'em all I suppose.
Gordian Knot
Being Deviant IS My Art.
Unless you have been the target of the more extreme element of the 'born again' mob, you probably haven't a clue what I am on about!
Well I live in the American south, so I absolutely have a clue what you are talking about. Have been dealing with this holier than thou, hypocritical attitude for 25 years, which is why my perception of Christians is, in reality, not a whole lot different from yours.
Where we differ is you seem to have a compulsion to tilt at Christian windmills out of some sense of fighting the good fight against evil. That your fight is pointless and useless only seems to inspire you to fight harder.
My view is that these people are not going to change. Nothing I can say will make the least difference to them. Instead I focus my energies on the folks (Christian or otherwise) who are different from the typical bunch. People who have an open mind and an open heart. Even when we cannot reach agreement, which is often the case, the respect for each other is still there.
You don't get to choose how other people will act. You do get to choose how you will act. I choose to take the path of enlightenment by dealing with other enlightened souls.
What positive are you gaining from your choice of paths?
F
Frrostedman
Guest
Originally Posted by Frrostedmanmy want for the government to stop forcibly taking tax dollars out of my pocket
You cut off the part where the bible is relevant. I want for the government to quit forcing me to monetarily support unbiblical acts. I expect that likewise, a skeptic would have a serious problem with the government taking his/her money and spending it to promote the bible.I never realised this bit was in the Bible.
This is where I usually get, "Yes! It's about time we evolved past that hideous practice." Indeed. It's not the government's place to force you to tithe to a certain religious cause. Similarly, it's not the government's place to force me to encourage a harlot's behavior by paying for her abortion or contraceptives.
F
Frrostedman
Guest
You thought wrong.I thought [Thomas'] comments deserved my reply!
Q
Quirkybird
Guest
I am not quite sure what you mean by that question, could you please explain what you mean, thanks.
V
voiceofwood
Guest
My understanding is that you will be freed from hell by turning to Jesus, accepting him as your lord and savoir, repenting your sin and accepting his forgiveness
Gordian Knot
Being Deviant IS My Art.
Quirky, this is a pattern I am seeing in you. You want everything handed to you. How about commenting on what I said in my post. There is a lot there. Instead you say nothing and focus on one single question. And ask what it means.
It follows a pattern of what you post in general. You always want to react instead of interact. What are some possible answers to my final question. Think. And then respond.
When you are willing to start interacting with thoughtful comments (I.E. not just negating what you disagree with), you will have my thoughtful replies.
But no more handouts.
It follows a pattern of what you post in general. You always want to react instead of interact. What are some possible answers to my final question. Think. And then respond.
When you are willing to start interacting with thoughtful comments (I.E. not just negating what you disagree with), you will have my thoughtful replies.
But no more handouts.
Q
Quirkybird
Guest
The idea of heaven and hell is not very credible especially in the form that some Christians believe it to be, imo.