God for atheists, agnostics, doubters, religious humanists and others

[Thomas]

Now, you know she's going to ask... What is informed commentary?

From Google:
informed: adjective
having or showing knowledge of a subject or situation.
"an informed readership"
synonyms: knowledgeable, enlightened, illuminated, literate, well informed, well educated, educated, schooled, instructed ...
antonyms: ill-informed, ignorant ...

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

I am an agnostic NOT an atheist!

That seems like a pretty angry (or at least defensive) answer.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

My only answer to "why are we here," is "There is no reason. The best we can do is find meaning in our own ways."

The more interesting question might be: Just how certain are you of this claim and why?

 

[Namaste Jesus]

From Google:
informed: adjective
having or showing knowledge of a subject or situation.
"an informed readership"
synonyms: knowledgeable, enlightened, illuminated, literate, well informed, well educated, educated, schooled, instructed ...
antonyms: ill-informed, ignorant ...

By no means do I agree with everything QB says or even how she says it, but if I may play Devil's Advocate for a moment.

Would you not agree that someone who has reached the ripe old age of 64, having been exposed to Church doctrine all of there life, having read the Bible cover to cover on numerous occasions and having raised several children who are currently active in spiritual endeavors, one being an actual Anglican Priest, would by the very definition you provide be able to give informed commentary?

We may not agree with what QB says and her interpretations may not match our own or even be rational for that matter, but she is no less informed when she says it.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Does anyone else ever invoke non-traditional ideas of God, either to translate the God-talk into something you believe or because that’s how you really think of God?

Yes. Furthermore, I would argue that it's a pretty Jewish thing to do.

 

[Marcialou]

Yes. Furthermore, I would argue that it's a pretty Jewish thing to do.

I agree. I was wondering whether anyone would ask me how it's possible to be both Jewish and an atheist. If you fit that description do you want to take a crack at explaining it?

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

I agree. I was wondering whether anyone would ask me how it's possible to be both Jewish and an atheist. If you fit that description do you want to take a crack at explaining it?

Actually, I was a pretty strong atheist for much of my sixty-eight years. I have now backed away from that position, adopting an approach employed by Franz Rosensweig (or so I've been taught). When asked "Do you believe in God?" my preferred response is "Not yet."

Parenthetically, I am active in my synagogue, including attending - and occasionally leading - Torah studied.

 

[Namaste Jesus]

Actually, I was a pretty strong atheist for much of my sixty-eight years. I have now backed away from that position, adopting an approach employed by Franz Rosensweig (or so I've been taught). When asked "Do you believe in God?" my preferred response is "Not yet."

Parenthetically, I am active in my synagogue, including attending - and occasionally leading - Torah studied.

I like that!

 

[Marcialou]

Jayhawker,

My guess is that a lot of practicing Jews are in a similar position to you (post #47). I belong to a secular Jewish community and go to their High Holiday services. I like to say that God makes a cameo appearance there. We go through all the self reflection and a sort of praying which I describe as group hoping and support. At home we celebrate Hanukka, Purim, and Passover and sometimes Sukkot when my friend hosts it. I feel like a lot of my moral values come from my Jewish experience.

I wish we did more Friday night Shabats. It's hard with just 2 non-believers at home. Some one of these days I'm going to invite a bunch of Jewish friends to a Friday night potluck and see if we can turn it into a once a month thing. I've been saying that for years.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

I belong to a secular Jewish community and go to their High Holiday services.

An SHJ community?

 

[Namaste Jesus]

Marcialou and Jayhawker, I must say, the spirituality you two possess seems to transcend mere human definitions of God.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

It's the wine -- yet another Jewish value.

 

[Quirkybird]

See, I make mistakes all the time, so I'm sorry for misjudging you.
But I can't do anything but declare that you give me nothing to work with, I can't see any reason to ask you a single question or answer any of yours. I hope you see the reason for that and don't take that as a personal attack.

What do you want me to give you? I am not looking on your challenges as a personal attack.

 

[Frrostedman]

By no means do I agree with everything QB says or even how she says it, but if I may play Devil's Advocate for a moment.

Would you not agree that someone who has reached the ripe old age of 64, having been exposed to Church doctrine all of there life, having read the Bible cover to cover on numerous occasions and having raised several children who are currently active in spiritual endeavors, one being an actual Anglican Priest, would by the very definition you provide be able to give informed commentary?

We may not agree with what QB says and her interpretations may not match our own or even be rational for that matter, but she is no less informed when she says it.

I think that is a pretty good argument for why quirkybird could be considered "informed." However, qb has readily admitted on several occasions that she believes the bible is unreliable. Plus she has stated that even if God is for real, she doesn't like Him anyway. So as informed as this person might be.. with preconceived notions like those one should take qb's commentary as "one side of the story" and seek at least 1 other opinion to get their "informed" answer. What Thomas was talking about as far as "Informed commentary," if I may Thomas, is the kind of commentary you find in study bibles and research texts. The informed commentary you find in those is never from someone who doesn't believe the bible, or claims to have read the bible a few times, or has an axe to grind one way or the other. It is commentary you get from biblical scholars and established, highly educated theologians.

 

[Thomas]

Hi Frrostedman —

What Thomas was talking about as far as "Informed commentary," if I may Thomas, is the kind of commentary you find in study bibles and research texts. The informed commentary you find in those is never from someone who doesn't believe the bible, or claims to have read the bible a few times, or has an axe to grind one way or the other. It is commentary you get from biblical scholars and established, highly educated theologians.

One proviso, please do not assume the only stuff I read is the stuff I want to hear.

When I did my degree, we followed the axiomatic 'thesis, antithesis, synthesis' and had to demonstrate a knowledge of the arguments for and against. So if the subject was 'The Quest for the Historical Jesus' I had to read up on the Jesus Seminar and Bart D Ehrman. If it was Gnosticism then the point was made strongly that it's not enough to assume Valentinus was a bad man, just because Irenaeus thought he was ... every comment, for or against, had to be reasoned.

 

[Marcialou]

An SHJ community? #50 responding to #49

SHJ? I'm not sure what you mean. There are two secular Jewish communities in my area. One is Humanist Judaism, founded by the late Sherwin Wine. The other is Workman's Circle which grew out of Jewish Socialist and Union Movements. They both provide youth education leading to Bar/Bat Mitzva, family programs, Adult Ed, and High Holiday services. My kids didn't go there so I only know about the services. I usually alternate between the two groups.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

SHJ? I'm not sure what you mean. There are two secular Jewish communities in my area. One is Humanist Judaism, founded by the late Sherwin Wine. The other is Workman's Circle which grew out of Jewish Socialist and Union Movements.

SHJ is Rabbi Wine's (ז״ל) Society for Humanistic Judaism. I was a member (in fact, a board member) of a small SHJ synagogue for a few years. Rabbi Wine was an interesting man. His death was tragic.

 

[madera]

And to your credit. You know, I'm glad you said that. Truth be told; I am a bible-believing Christian. But my doctrine is based almost entirely on intellectual deductions and conclusions. I don't know of any Christians with beliefs anywhere close to mine. And yet, most first impressions people have of me is of me as a strict, fundamentalist hardliner.

Why do people get that impression?
why is your beliefs so different from other biblle believing christians?.

 

[madera]

Why do people get that impression?
why is your beliefs so different from other biblle believing christians?.

hi marcialou

how does the group "self reflect".?
interesting.

 

[Frrostedman]

Why do people get [the impression that you're a fundamentalist hardliner]?

Because after just a few exchanges, they realize I believe that the bible is the inspired, inerrant word of God.

why is your beliefs so different from other biblle believing christians?.

Because of my view on the nature of our reality; I believe all of reality, our entire universe, is virtual. Likely but not necessarily, a digital hologram. Quantum physics suggests, among other things, that our universe is literally an illusion (see Niels Bohr and the Observer Effect)