"Oneness" and Satan

violetmystic said:
So, I'm trying to find a way to bring all religions together into "oneness," a form of mysticism, I believe, and I'm having trouble doing this because of the Christian Devil. I believe in angels, especially of the Catholic kind, and saints so I would like to find a way to reconcile Catholicism with the belief that I have achieved the opening of the seventh chakra and achieved divine consciousness. I believe in energy and Tarot Cards and crystals but also angels and am trying to find a way to believe in God and Satan while maintaining the "divine oneness" found in opening the seventh chakra.

So...has anyone else been able to this?

If we are all "one" are we also all Satan and demons and fire and Hell...is it all part of the "oneness?" I can comprehend being God but being Satan? Is this a bit like the Shadow (Jungian concept) that we reject because of its darkness? Would embracing and the existence of it/Him mean embracing the darker side of consciousness, the darkner side and destruction of the universe, in order to maintain balance?

I guess we can't just be good but have to have evil, too, to maintain natural balance and this concept can easily be found in nature, I believe.

Anyway, I think I've answered my own question...sort of...but I'd like to know what other people think...

And please, please don't tell me these things don't exist and give me logical/illogical fallacies and whatnot because I used to be one of you: spent my time telling others how ill-informed they were/are, before I had a mystical experience and discovered the reality of religious experience...thank you. :rolleyes:

Violet
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fallen angels are really not much different from human beings because they fell and are in the same separated condtion and strive to go back to being one again. when they fell their bodies separated from their soul and spirit. they are divine beings so they consist of more light which means their bodies are more llike spirit.
 
Hermes said:
The Christian Devil is a misnomer, a falsehood. It does not exist, it NEVER existed. The "fallen" angel Lucifer however is a real idea and concept found in majority of world religions. Lucifer is called fallen because he fell into existence, matter. Not because he disobeyed god. That part is the story, the hearsay. Lucifer exists in the invisible, astral as well as he can manifest as any body in matter. Our existence is finite, perishable, is a part of a dream, the illusion of Maya. Infinity = God, our spirits are infinite beings. The dark forces, out of ignorance or out of temporary thirst of power, follow the Ego, which in turn would knowingly or unknowingly bid the purpose of Lucifer. But Lucifer has already lost. One time or a couple he almost managed to cause the destruction of Earth which would prolong his existence, but he failed so far. He will try it again. Our spirits can reincarnate on other stars or planets but that would be a major setback. If you are any serious student of history you can clearly see the gargantuan battle of Dark and the Light throughout history of men.
Lucifer's spirit has karmic fate awaiting for trying to hijack Earth's spiritual evolution to his own means. He will not be part of Oneness for quite sometime, but eventually he can also rejoin.
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did you know that the actual archangels name is Lucifel? Lucifer refers to the female counterpart that is divinely perfect. This is why its associated with venus who is really a goddess. knowledge of this has been distorted from fact.
 
donnann said:
I am familiar with budda. Did you know what Buddha was one of the divine beings who incarnated ? The bible says I have sent ye saviours he was one of them.
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Union is not dependent on any belief system.

Belief systems are based on a particular attempt to express union.

That unity exists in all beings, and thus all are an incarnation of that union.

Buddha has known unification.

Buddhism is as separatist as anything else.

As soon as you speak, at least the potential for disunity has arisen...

You can disagree.
 
SatyamAbhidi said:
Union is not dependent on any belief system.

Belief systems are based on a particular attempt to express union.

That unity exists in all beings, and thus all are an incarnation of that union.

Buddha has known unification.

Buddhism is as separatist as anything else.

As soon as you speak, at least the potential for disunity has arisen...

You can disagree.
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By incarnation I mean a divine being such as an angel that condenses and descends into the human egg and is sealed. I think you misunderstood what I meant by incarnation. I do however understand what you are saying but I don't look at information of ascended beings as separatist.
 
SatyamAbhidi said:
Union is not dependent on any belief system.

Belief systems are based on a particular attempt to express union.

That unity exists in all beings, and thus all are an incarnation of that union.

Buddha has known unification.

Buddhism is as separatist as anything else.

As soon as you speak, at least the potential for disunity has arisen...

You can disagree.
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I might be missing the underlying point, but everything you have said has lead me to this idea that I perceive you as having.

Knowledge and thinking are paths to separation from the "Unity".

Does this mean you are saying ignorance is the path to Unity? and what we should strive for is ignorance or stupidity?
 
BigJoeNobody said:
I might be missing the underlying point, but everything you have said has lead me to this idea that I perceive you as having.

Knowledge and thinking are paths to separation from the "Unity".

Does this mean you are saying ignorance is the path to Unity? and what we should strive for is ignorance or stupidity?
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No!

Of course, it would look that way though.

I am suggesting that the mind itself is stupid, by its very nature!

I am suggesting that when you stop thinking, you make room for something else.

Now, intuition begins to function, genuine understanding is there.

If you really look at the mind, it doesn't actually assist you in anything, it just creates problems and stalls you...

There is a better way.
 
I would say that ignorance is the state of a child.

Through life, we gain knowledge, it is necessary and in many ways helpful.

At a certain point, we start to identify with the mind, we become too involved in the thought process to the extent that we include particular thoughts - beliefs - in our self-image - which is itself a belief structure.

Few move beyond this, but that beyond is true innocence.

Now, knowledge is there as you need it, but you live in a pure way, you recognize that this moment is completely unique, and all the mind can do is apply the past to it.

Understanding arises through unity, understanding the underlying nature of life, nothing that happens surprises you. You have no idea of how things should be, so you act in unison with whatever comes...

Mind is a distortion engine, without it there is only clarity.
 
SatyamAbhidi said:
No!

Of course, it would look that way though.

I am suggesting that the mind itself is stupid, by its very nature!

I am suggesting that when you stop thinking, you make room for something else.

Now, intuition begins to function, genuine understanding is there.

If you really look at the mind, it doesn't actually assist you in anything, it just creates problems and stalls you...

There is a better way.
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The blank mind is stupid, I'll give you that. Intelligence is formed by thinking and learning. And the more you know, the more you can think. This is a very true and measurable fact. You are suggesting that one stop thinking. Which is an impossibility in itself unless you are brain-dead (I mean that in a literal sense, non-offensive). Blanking your mind (meditative operation) only helps clear outside influences that would normally distract you from what you are thinking. Intuition comes from experience and knowledge. Islamically, I agree the understanding is there. But that doesn't mean that base understanding is the height of existence. There is much more. Science and math tend to show a truth that is out there. The things you are preaching are based on a Monkish society. Where not much advancement is needed for life. That works with societies of maybe a few hundred people, but imagine for a moment a city. Not a huge one, but a large city. Say Denver, CO. With the population of Denver, food and water must be maintained in levels that will sustain life. finding berries/foragables and/or hunting wild animals would not be enough to feed the entire city's population. Nor would there be enough to clothe the population. Nor enough clean surface water to keep people hydrated. So how do you remedy this? Thinking, innovating, learning, engineering, understanding. without these society wouldn't exist. The thoughtless attitude you are saying is the key to unity means the primal thoughts are how to grow closer to "Unity". Those same primal thoughts include aggression, greed, etc.

Your mind doesn't help anything? I think that statement is what is wrong with most of the "Eastern Traditions". Science and math bring understanding of the world. Art brings pleasure. Linguistics brings understanding amongst one another. Ignorance brings anger, hatred, greed, excessive self-worth. Not thinking brings stupidity and ignorance.
 
BigJoeNobody said:
The blank mind is stupid, I'll give you that. Intelligence is formed by thinking and learning. And the more you know, the more you can think. This is a very true and measurable fact. You are suggesting that one stop thinking. Which is an impossibility in itself unless you are brain-dead (I mean that in a literal sense, non-offensive). Blanking your mind (meditative operation) only helps clear outside influences that would normally distract you from what you are thinking. Intuition comes from experience and knowledge. Islamically, I agree the understanding is there. But that doesn't mean that base understanding is the height of existence. There is much more. Science and math tend to show a truth that is out there. The things you are preaching are based on a Monkish society. Where not much advancement is needed for life. That works with societies of maybe a few hundred people, but imagine for a moment a city. Not a huge one, but a large city. Say Denver, CO. With the population of Denver, food and water must be maintained in levels that will sustain life. finding berries/foragables and/or hunting wild animals would not be enough to feed the entire city's population. Nor would there be enough to clothe the population. Nor enough clean surface water to keep people hydrated. So how do you remedy this? Thinking, innovating, learning, engineering, understanding. without these society wouldn't exist. The thoughtless attitude you are saying is the key to unity means the primal thoughts are how to grow closer to "Unity". Those same primal thoughts include aggression, greed, etc.

Your mind doesn't help anything? I think that statement is what is wrong with most of the "Eastern Traditions". Science and math bring understanding of the world. Art brings pleasure. Linguistics brings understanding amongst one another. Ignorance brings anger, hatred, greed, excessive self-worth. Not thinking brings stupidity and ignorance.
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I totally agree with your view on science and about understanding.
 
BigJoeNobody said:
The blank mind is stupid, I'll give you that. Intelligence is formed by thinking and learning. And the more you know, the more you can think. This is a very true and measurable fact. You are suggesting that one stop thinking. Which is an impossibility in itself unless you are brain-dead (I mean that in a literal sense, non-offensive). Blanking your mind (meditative operation) only helps clear outside influences that would normally distract you from what you are thinking. Intuition comes from experience and knowledge. Islamically, I agree the understanding is there. But that doesn't mean that base understanding is the height of existence. There is much more. Science and math tend to show a truth that is out there. The things you are preaching are based on a Monkish society. Where not much advancement is needed for life. That works with societies of maybe a few hundred people, but imagine for a moment a city. Not a huge one, but a large city. Say Denver, CO. With the population of Denver, food and water must be maintained in levels that will sustain life. finding berries/foragables and/or hunting wild animals would not be enough to feed the entire city's population. Nor would there be enough to clothe the population. Nor enough clean surface water to keep people hydrated. So how do you remedy this? Thinking, innovating, learning, engineering, understanding. without these society wouldn't exist. The thoughtless attitude you are saying is the key to unity means the primal thoughts are how to grow closer to "Unity". Those same primal thoughts include aggression, greed, etc.

Your mind doesn't help anything? I think that statement is what is wrong with most of the "Eastern Traditions". Science and math bring understanding of the world. Art brings pleasure. Linguistics brings understanding amongst one another. Ignorance brings anger, hatred, greed, excessive self-worth. Not thinking brings stupidity and ignorance.
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The yogi knows that without interference from mind, he is naturally blissful.

Mind brings nothing but agitation, you say science and math helps us understand the world, yet it is simply untrue. They are ways of describing the world, but they describe something that has been intuited already.

I would go so far as to suggest that all great minds have encountered union.

There is great evidence to show that many founders of Western Science were Alchemists, this is another path towards union.

I would, then, suggest that through union, they have been inspired in particular ways in order to shape human evolution.

Yet, none of that helps you in day to day life.

Things like anxiety and other disorders are based solely in the mind, yet if we look closely, most of our intelligent action does not come from a mental statement.

We might react after the fact with mind, but usually it is already late.

Mind, and words, merely help us communicate.

Living from mind is utterly foolish.

It is a good tool, but taken to be what you are is very harmful.
 
The yogi strives to transcend mind and body, even spirit and soul and whatever else you want to include... he is not a non-thinker, indeed Jnani Yoga is a path for thinkers.

The goal is always cessation of mental activity though, seeing it for what it is.

Projection, unreal.

Better to say merely a passing appearance in consciousness.

If you actually watch the mind, even for just a day, you will see that 99% of its assertions are simply idiotic.

This will require honesty on your part, since you seem attached to it.

If you can see this, though, you will understand why I say mind is mostly nonsense.

The mind of a yogi is not very active because he has understood the mind.

He has penetrated its activities, looked at why things arise.

Healing these sources of mental disturbance, there is no reason for mind to keep running.

It is not that he is against mind, no, his mind is simply content.

He has found happiness.

Nothing for the mind to work out anymore.
 
Not really sure what all this discussion has to do with the original topic. But it is a fascinating digression never the less. The disagreement going on, it seems to me, is a confusion about the various end results of thinking.

Sat is not wrong in his proclamation that the mind is a distortion engine. We actually perceive a fraction of what we see. It is a biological necessity. There is no way one can be constantly aware of everything you are seeing. The mind must use a shorthand to skim up the data that is the most relevant to the moment.

Does the mind use the best criteria to make that decision of what is most relevant? Not so much.

The purpose of stilling the mind in meditation is to stop thinking for a finite period of time. It is akin to hitting a reset button. The mind clears and becomes calm. The benefit after the meditation is the ability to view reality with a more discerning eye.
 
Discussions here often veer from the topic when it is exhausted or we are exhausted....but the contemplation sparks another discussion...and we just go pedal to the metal...and run that train wherever she may go... upto the OP to maintain it should they feel the need.
 
Or at least I don't understand if we're not.

Then, for the yogi, everything is yoga.
 
Devils' Advocate said:
Sat is not wrong in his proclamation that the mind is a distortion engine.
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Sayam Abhidi = Radiating Truth.

Close inspection of the mind shows it is basically a process of rejection.

Towards how to accept.

Using understanding.

This is the distortion.

You know what is necessary, you don't need to figure it out.

In fact you aren't figuring it out at all, you are providing permission.

Unnecessary.

It is the partition.

It wants to be the point of union.

Within what is already universal.

It is maya.

Not the reality.
 
Relative = partial.

Absolute = unity.

Each part seeks unity.

Consciously or unconsciously.

Consciously is the aim of yoga.

Unconsciously usually results in lust.

Desires.

Much nonsense arises.

You haven't really understood the movement.
 
Tao is The Way of union.

How to remain impartial?

Understanding.

Intuitively recognizing unity.

Always looking to unify.

That is wisdom.

Intellect is always partial.
 
violetmystic said:
So, I'm trying to find a way to bring all religions together into "oneness," a form of mysticism, I believe, and I'm having trouble doing this because of the Christian Devil. I believe in angels, especially of the Catholic kind, and saints so I would like to find a way to reconcile Catholicism with the belief that I have achieved the opening of the seventh chakra and achieved divine consciousness. I believe in energy and Tarot Cards and crystals but also angels and am trying to find a way to believe in God and Satan while maintaining the "divine oneness" found in opening the seventh chakra.

So...has anyone else been able to this?

If we are all "one" are we also all Satan and demons and fire and Hell...is it all part of the "oneness?" I can comprehend being God but being Satan? Is this a bit like the Shadow (Jungian concept) that we reject because of its darkness? Would embracing and the existence of it/Him mean embracing the darker side of consciousness, the darkner side and destruction of the universe, in order to maintain balance?

I guess we can't just be good but have to have evil, too, to maintain natural balance and this concept can easily be found in nature, I believe.

Anyway, I think I've answered my own question...sort of...but I'd like to know what other people think...

And please, please don't tell me these things don't exist and give me logical/illogical fallacies and whatnot because I used to be one of you: spent my time telling others how ill-informed they were/are, before I had a mystical experience and discovered the reality of religious experience...thank you. :rolleyes:

Violet
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There is a saying among scholars: As above so below. God is not bad in either realm.
As far as chakras I have experienced a series of chakra openings. The crown chakra is our true divine self. Not necessarily how we behave in our everyday life but its our personality in the divine. When your divine personality is revealed this opens the 7th chakra.
 
donnann said:
There is a saying among scholars: As above so below. God is not bad in either realm.
As far as chakras I have experienced a series of chakra openings. The crown chakra is our true divine self. Not necessarily how we behave in our everyday life but its our personality in the divine. When your divine personality is revealed this opens the 7th chakra.
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Well no, divinity has no personality.

Union is known, that unity is called divinity.

Personality is partial.
 
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