Debate: Is Islam a Threat to the West?


for a quick reference there are much more scholarly videos of him explaining it.
 
A Cup Of Tea said:
Is there any way to "prove" either of those statements?
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I have not forgotten my comment to find statistics to back up my perceptions. It has proven to be a quagmire as at this point I have tried 30+ different search phrases, and scoured 100s of sites. There is no straight out most violent Christian vs Muslim countries comparison that deals with the last few years.

There are tons of sites that show where Christians are most persecuted. There are tons of sites that compare the violence of these two religions over the past centuries. Some favoring one, some the other. And there are tons of sites decrying the violence inherent in Islam in modern times, but of the latter, none I could find that I believed was neutral in their assessment.

The best I could find is the largest countries with the most religious restrictions of its citizens.

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tan...ons-among-the-worlds-most-populous-countries/
 
Devils' Advocate said:
The best I could find is the largest countries with the most religious restrictions of its citizens.
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I appreciate the effort!
From the background I'm being trained in it is unmeasurable and thus unprovable, so I was interested in what would satisfy your needs for a proof. Again, much appreciated!
 
BigJoeNobody said:
well there's a rub for ya isn't it. you do realize Muslims don't hold the world under our hands. We don't force you to live by our standards. Nor did Mouhammed (PBUH) nor the Caliphs, Even the Ottomans at the height of their power was a bastion for individual worshipers rights. Not in any time has a true believer imposed our Shariah on another person. This isn't however the case with Nations, The US has long been known to impose it's laws and outlook all over the world.


now I figured after the first one, maybe you would look at the link I gave you to the thread where all this has been covered or at least quit arguing using your "religionofpeace" source.


I really don't have time to go into a full analysis as I did 5:33. I will say you aren't taking context into account with either of these. Both deliver a message to Mouhammed (PBUH) going into a war, or dealing with the aftermath. In these particular cases Allah had decided to give his messenger (PBUH) orders to eliminate those at war with him. Presumably if you believe in a God, he would only order this because not doing so and giving these people mercy would only lead to more war and corruption later. Both contain ayas nearby that say if they cease hostilities to let them be.

https://www.quora.com/What-is-meant...-strife-and-religion-should-be-only-for-Allah

here is an example of an explanation... it really is quite simple to find, maybe not as simple as reading another rehashing from the same excrement of a site you insist on using as a reference. Do yourself a favor and learn from other sources. Nouman Ali Khan is a person I give great amounts of respect for. His website is pay only, and is meant for deeper teaching and understanding, worth every penny though. He does also have lots of talks on youtube from his various teaching sermons and forums. I suggest you search them out, I promise everything you are asking about is covered quite clearly.
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Are you aware of the world news? You do realize the atrocities being committed in the name of Allah?
Since you don't have the 'time' to discuss this, neither do I. How about I send you to a website for every website you send me?
I'm prepared to sit here and discuss this . . . one topic at a time if necessary, but you are simply running and hiding, not willing to face up to your delusional Faith-Based religion and its horrors. (bold=ban)
 
Etu Malku said:
Are you aware of the world news? You do realize the atrocities being committed in the name of Allah?
Since you don't have the 'time' to discuss this, neither do I. How about I send you to a website for every website you send me?
I'm prepared to sit here and discuss this . . . one topic at a time if necessary, but you are simply running and hiding, not willing to face up to your delusional Faith-Based religion and its horrors.
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unfortunately I'm not a full time internet troll so at times I won't go into full depth. I do say though, since you have yet to click a link I gave you, I don't know how much you are really getting out. World news is biased and usually only representative of a small population, but that small population gets blown into the public view as representative of the whole. And again, deviating from the statement I made that the religion is not to blame, but rather a few misguided people.
 
BigJoeNobody said:
unfortunately I'm not a full time internet troll so at times I won't go into full depth. I do say though, since you have yet to click a link I gave you, I don't know how much you are really getting out. World news is biased and usually only representative of a small population, but that small population gets blown into the public view as representative of the whole. And again, deviating from the statement I made that the religion is not to blame, but rather a few misguided people.
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I've listened to all the Muslim Apologetics for years and it's all the same double talk and Taqqiya / Kitman, same as the other Abrahamic faiths.
The foundation of the problems we are seeing all over the world (and why Islam is a threat to the West) lies in 'Faith Based Religions' because they systematically create delusional monsters. (bold=ban)
 
Etu Malku said:
The foundation of the problems we are seeing all over the world (and why Islam is a threat to the West) lies in 'Faith Based Religions' because they systematically create delusional monsters.
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Again, I don't understand why you single out Islam. There have been all too many murders in this country alone by faith based Christians who turn into delusional monsters.

Another angle. What religions are not faith based?
 
Etu Malku said:
I've listened to all the Muslim Apologetics for years
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I'm going to go out on a limb but I'm going to assume you didn't actually listen to their explanations. I'm not talking about the ones who solely say this isn't what it says.... etc... yes there are many of those... but the actual scholars. The people who are talking to Muslims, more so than anyone. Nouman Ali Khan is one of those. There are others, many, but NAK seems to be the best communicator of anyone I've listened to.
Etu Malku said:
it's all the same double talk and Taqqiya / Kitman
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I'm certain you don't know the meanings of these. If you did, you would know that it would be impossible for these to be used in every video of "apologetics".
Etu Malku said:
The foundation of the problems we are seeing all over the world (and why Islam is a threat to the West) lies in 'Faith Based Religions' because they systematically create delusional monsters.
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So we are to look past the Hindu, Buddhist, Taoist, etc terrorism groups? Or how about the outright fundamentalism (using this term as it is used today, not the actual definition) displayed by some Atheists? Is it really an issue of the religion? Or is it an issue with Humanity? We can go round and round about this, but until you can give up your "everything you say is a lie to trick me" BS this conversation will never go anywhere. Your ignorance will be locked up and you will never know who actually is a threat to you. You seem so blinded by hatred that even the most detailed explanation will not suffice. regardless of the credentials or honesty behind them. I still offer you to read the thread I posted first, "What's wrong with Islam?" and feel free to ask for explanations of Ayas that aren't already explained. But seeing as how you've ignored all my links so far and chalked them up to "people lying to preserve their life due to fear of great harm of death to themselves or family" (aka Taqqiya) let me reassure you, I am not in fear for my safety nor that of my family. I have done quite a bit of searching, but have found no reference to either of these in mainstream Islam. 1 Shia example seems to pop up, but even it is limited in usage. Here is a forum of MUSLIMS talking about the subject. It is so minuscule of a topic that as you can see many don't even realize what it is other than what is claimed by your type of reference sites.
http://www.answering-christianity.com/blog/index.php?topic=588.0
and 1 semi-scholarly site
http://thefactsaboutislam.blogspot.com/2011/04/truth-about-taqiyyah-takiya-taqiyya.html

Etu Malku said:
I'm not really, other religions fit this, but it is a thread on Islam . . . so
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so you visit Interfaith sites for what reason? I mean you obviously have no intention to learn anything, you seem certain you are a scholar of all other religions to the point where you KNOW they are all false, and a threat to humanity, and the west in particular.
 
Etu Malku said:
The foundation of the problems we are seeing all over the world (and why Islam is a threat to the West) lies in 'Faith Based Religions' because they systematically create delusional monsters.
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I would have thought the foundation of the problems is man, secular systems also 'systematically create delusional monsters' ... Hitler, Pol Pot, Stalin, Mao ... so the accusation laid at religions door is erroneous.
 
Enough already! Is the code of conduct no longer being enforced around here?

CR Interfaith forum Code of Conduct

Conduct

1. We aim to uphold a good standard of conduct in the forums.

Please respect other members and avoid making posts that may be seen as personally offensive. We don’t allow flame wars here.

Please note that this applies both to public postings and Private Messages.

2. We do not allow CR to be used as a soapbox to aggressively promote any faith, or see any faith aggressively attacked.
 
Namaste Jesus said:
Enough already! Is the code of conduct no longer being enforced around here?

CR Interfaith forum Code of Conduct

Conduct

1. We aim to uphold a good standard of conduct in the forums.

Please respect other members and avoid making posts that may be seen as personally offensive. We don’t allow flame wars here.

Please note that this applies both to public postings and Private Messages.

2. We do not allow CR to be used as a soapbox to aggressively promote any faith, or see any faith aggressively attacked.
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Normally I would agree, but having this thread around is somewhat asking for it. If we want to stop it, maybe just merge this thread onto "What's wrong with Islam" thread. That way it at least is in a place made for the purpose of discussing these issues. Although from what I've read this individual doesn't read responses anyway so deleting it all together might be a better option. I'd appreciate some of my responses to be moved however.
 
I wonder if a better topic would be "Is the West a Threat to Islam?" ;)
 
BigJoeNobody said:
Normally I would agree, but having this thread around is somewhat asking for it. If we want to stop it, maybe just merge this thread onto "What's wrong with Islam" thread. That way it at least is in a place made for the purpose of discussing these issues. Although from what I've read this individual doesn't read responses anyway so deleting it all together might be a better option. I'd appreciate some of my responses to be moved however.
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I think "systematically create delusional monsters" is way beyond what one asks for in these sort of discussions. The world is free to have any opinion on anything they want, but why bring it here, and what sort of response is being expected? "Yes I see your point, I'm denouncing Islam tomorrow afternoon".
 
I agree that Etu's comments went beyond the code of conduct. I gave him a chance at first as I hoped he might actually start to listen to what Joe was saying. When he launched back into his hate mongering yesterday he should have been banned right away. That's on me. I didnt read through all the threads last night and have been in a development workshop all of today. I apologize you had to put up with that garbage. I'll remove his mongering statements when I'm back in front of a computer.

Since the definition of interfaith comes up a lot on here, I'd like to submit my own: 'a post so outrageous that members of all beliefs flag the comment for the same reasons'
 
Don't worry about it @Steve, this is the internet we can't isolate ourself from what people are like. I agree that there should be a point, but I'm also for giving people second chances and all the regulars here have thick enough skin. I think you've handled the situation accurately.
 
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