Polygamy and Polyandry

Ok. But to me it is people trying to force spiritual values in the natural world that causes a lot of problems. Especially those who insist their own scripture -- and their own interpretation of it -- defines the 'spiritual'. Spiritual laws and values cannot be enforced on nature. Spiritual laws are not of this natural dimension. God is not boxed by nature. The natural dimension will always remain what it is?

Spiritual vision is beyond the natural world. Give to Ceasar what is Caesar's and to God what is God's.

Of course I can try to do good. But I am never going to be able to transform the natural. The material/natural world is what it is. It is what is has always been, and what it probably always will be? I can only look to the spiritual in my own way?
 
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My hands can build a house, my voice can spe
RJM Corbet said:
Ok. But to me it is people trying to force spiritual values in the natural world that causes a lot of problems. Especially those who insist their own scripture -- and their own interpretation of it -- defines the 'spiritual'. Spiritual laws and values cannot be enforced on nature. Spiritual laws are not of this natural dimension. God is not boxed by nature. The natural dimension will always remain what it is?

Spiritual vision is beyond the natural world. Give to Ceasar what is Caesar's and to God what is God's.

Of course I can try to do good. But I am never going to be able to transform the natural. The material/natural world is what it is. It is what is has always been, and what it probably always will be? I can only look to the spiritual in my own way?
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ak and my fingers write. My hands can pick up a fork and eat, a glass to drink from. This is the natural and it's all natural. The very fact that it exists at all makes it so.
 
In other words there is nothing that isn't "natural" … some things may be uncommon to some, but I assure you, all is natural.
 
There is God and there is mammon. It is the attempt by people to insist that God supports their own mammon -- so that's alright then -- that causes all the problems.
 
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I've heard people try to define love or fear and use entirely wrong definitions while doing so. I'm guilty of the same. that's when I began to pay more attention to definitions and correct usage of the terms.
 
Gatekeeper said:
Define mammon please.
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Gatekeeper said:
I've heard people try to define love or fear and use entirely wrong definitions while doing so. I'm guilty of the same. that's when I began to pay more attention to definitions and correct usage of the terms.
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Well mammon would properly apply to wealth. But it extends to all worldly attachments?
As for love and fear, those are broad terms not simply defined.
However: now that we have dealt with the semantics ...
 
How does mammon then apply to the original post when it comes to what is? Your point was about super natural? or was it about the natural? or was it about opinions and values and what applies to some and what applies to all? Want to discuss the differences? You know, between what applies to some yet not all and what applies to all as well as some.
 
Gatekeeper said:
How does mammon then apply to the original post when it comes to what is? Your point was about super natural? or was it about the natural? or was it about opinions and values and what applies to some and what applies to all?
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All of the above, I think?

Gatekeeper said:
Want to discuss the differences? You know, between what applies to some yet not all and what applies to all as well as some.
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Go ahead. You've got the floor ...
 
Gatekeeper said:
In other words there is nothing that isn't "natural" … some things may be uncommon to some, but I assure you, all is natural.
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The space trash left on the moon and mars is natural...not

Just cause man is part of nature, our trash and inventions are not.

Natural, not man made, therein lies the distinction. We (man) make up the words and the definitions.
 
Neutron stars are natural. Everything in nature is natural. Everything contained by space and time is natural.

Spitit is not limited by nature. Nature is contained by spirit.
 
wil said:
The space trash left on the moon and mars is natural...not

Just cause man is part of nature, our trash and inventions are not.

Natural, not man made, therein lies the distinction. We (man) make up the words and the definitions.
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Kinda like introducing chemicals to a natural water supply? I was alluding to the bigger picture. The one between the natural and the super natural, as in there is no super natural as I see it.
 
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wil said:
Conjecture,.eh?

I mean I know it may be your belief...but can it be stated as fact?
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Ok. But I am explaining my use of the term. I think I have made it clear by now that the semantics can be left behind in this discussion?

Do I have material proof of Spirit?

No.

Does God dance to satisfy anyone's demands to reveal himself?

Probably not often.

Not aimed at you personally @wil
 
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Gatekeeper said:
... The one between the natural and the super natural, as in there is no super natural as I see it.
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It's a question of semantics, really. We can, for example, talk about the nature of God, whilst at the same time regarding God as supernatural. Its a question of semantics, science, sentiment, supposition ...

By definition 'supernatural' is that which lies beyond scientific understanding or the laws of nature, so 'God' is logically 'supernatural' or 'metanatural' or whatever ...

As soon as we start abandoning definitions were getting into murky waters. Science demands absolute precision in definition. Couldn't have unlocked as much as it has done without it.

Johannes Scottus Eriugena, one of my favourite theologians, used the Latin term 'natura' and got in a lot of hot water — both with the orthodox authorities of his day claiming he was preaching pantheism. This was the 9th century. A thousand years later, Pantheists claimed him as a champion ... both were wrong.

As ever, Kontext is King! :D
 
So, my own definition of the natural: The natural is that which existence is limited by time and space.

By extension, that which existence is not limited by time and space is spiritual.

The spiritual permeates the space/time dimension but is not contained by it?
 
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I guess … I mean words have meanings, but if all what viewed as being natural, then we would approach everything with a natural approach instead of placing a muddy water foggy kind of I understand it so lets call it super natural because well … it isn't understood yet by me. I mean a hot stove top and a tv or a mirror image might be viewed to be super natural to some who don't understand them … hell e... even magnets might be viewed that way. It's all natural … if it exist at all then guess what? It's natural, and even if it doesn't exist yet … guess what? The potential of or the likely hood of … like a painting in an artists mind, would be natural too. I don't like the term super natural for a reason. It's like being too superstitious or too religious, which the scriptures warn us against.

It's all natural and it's all God, which is to say it's life. Or that's life ! No matter where we are or how we see, it's life either way.
 
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