About Homosexuality and Religion

Arif Ghamiq said:
I am Muslim and I believe that The Qur'an (Recitation) is the words of Allah revealed to Prophet Muhammad.

Homosexuality is forbidden in Islam as are many other things, however there are some now interpreting the Quranic story of the People of Lut/Lot in a similar way that some people are of the other two branches of the Abrahamic faiths are doing.

My personal understanding, at this point, is that I - as a Muslim - would be wrong for indulging in homosexuality.

I do not believe that I should demand or command that others live their lives and conform their opinions according to my belief system.

At the same time, I will not be compelled to conform my thoughts and my lifestyle according to the beliefs of others. I require no one to co-sign my thoughts, feelings and actions and I'll not be required to co-sign anyone elses.
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Great. It is nice to have a Muslim to converse with, there are not very many Muslims posting on the other forum I post on.

As a Baha'i, I have many beliefs in common with Muslims but of course there are also differences.

Homosexuality is also forbidden by Baha'i Law but we do not believe our laws apply to anyone outside the Baha'i Faith. I also do not believe that I should demand or command that others live their lives and conform their opinions according to my belief system. At the same time, I will not be compelled to conform my thoughts and my lifestyle according to the beliefs of others.

I guess we have a lot in common regarding how we think. :)
 
Arif Ghamiq said:
I do not believe Allah loves everybody or that Allah is love itself, but I do believe existence is "His" - all of it - and that "He" is far more concerned about it than anyone else.
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Hmmmmm... So you do not believe like Christians, that Allah loves everybody or that Allah is love itself....
Can you elaborate upon that? I do not believe that either but I get a lot of flak from some of my fellow Baha'is who believe God is All-Loving.
Arif Ghamiq said:
I think it's humans who have a lack of interest & concern and that we project that apathy upon the Creator - another draw back of our seemingly unavoidable anthropromorphism imo
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That might be true, or it could be that some humans do not see God demonstrating caring so they do not believe God cares.... That is mostly atheists who feel this way.
 
Trailblazer said:
Great. It is nice to have a Muslim to converse with, there are not very many Muslims posting on the other forum I post on.

As a Baha'i, I have many beliefs in common with Muslims but of course there are also differences.

Homosexuality is also forbidden by Baha'i Law but we do not believe our laws apply to anyone outside the Baha'i Faith. I also do not believe that I should demand or command that others live their lives and conform their opinions according to my belief system. At the same time, I will not be compelled to conform my thoughts and my lifestyle according to the beliefs of others.

I guess we have a lot in common regarding how we think. :)
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I don't get how you can "forbid" homosexuality, it's like trying to forbid blue eyes. Attitudes like this only hurt people.
 
Trailblazer said:
It is not like blue eyes because people are not born homosexual.
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Wow. Are you sharing your personal views here, or is this a Baha'i teaching?

So how do people "become" homosexual, if not by birth? I want to hear this.
 
Cino said:
Wow. Are you sharing your personal views here, or is this a Baha'i teaching?

So how do people "become" homosexual, if not by birth? I want to hear this.
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No, it is not a Baha'i teaching.

It is based upon logic.
Logic tells you that if people did not know they were homosexual from childhood, they could not have been born that way.

It is also based upon what some homosexuals say.
Many homosexuals say that it is a choice they make, not something they were born with.

There is no scientific evidence that homosexuals are born that way, it is just a myth.

How do they become homosexual? They decided to become homosexual.

Massive Study Finds No Single Genetic Cause of Same-Sex Sexual Behavior

'Born this way'? It's way more complicated than that

Is sexual orientation determined at birth? No.

‘I am gay – but I wasn’t born this way’
 
Cino said:
Wow. Are you sharing your personal views here, or is this a Baha'i teaching?

So how do people "become" homosexual, if not by birth? I want to hear this.
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I've known quite a few gay people, and have never met one who "chose" to be gay. But many of them have been adversely affected by homophobia, including the religious variety.
We've made some progress here in the UK, we have gay marriage and gay vicars and such.
 
Mrs Malaprop said:
I don't get how you can "forbid" homosexuality, it's like trying to forbid blue eyes. Attitudes like this only hurt people.
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Inclinations themselves are not forbidden - the actions, following certain inclinations is forbidden in the Islamic faith, not by me - I adhere by choice as I am free to do.

We humans are inclined toward many actions which are considered religiously forbidden, inappropriate, immoral and even illeagal.

Gambling is forbidden to us as well - but I do not hate, oppress or seek to oppress gamblers, nor do I tell non-Muslims they shouldn't gamble.
 
Gambling has a high potential for process addiction, so I can see how it fits in with rules against other addictive things like alcohol.

Obsessing about sexual practices is a component of religions which I never understood, and the pressures to conform to forms of sexuality approved by the religious hierarchies, which can get quite influential in society, has brought nothing but sorrow to humanity.
 
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My problem is with foisting the above on pre-teen schoolchildren in schools. A lot of people don't like it. Let consenting adults be, but leave the children alone, imo
 
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RJM Corbet said:
My problem is with foisting the above on pre-teen schoolchildren in schools. A lot of people don't like it. Let consenting adults be, but leave the children alone, imo
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Still, the gender-binary, heterosexual ideal is being foisted on pre-teen schoolchildren by default. And, people being how they are, they then either pretend the other varieties don't exist (and children sense that something is being hidden, and some may think it is about them being "wrong" somehow, other, undesirable...), or they say nasty things about the other models... so it is being foisted on the pre-teens in any case, in all its glory, just in a biased way.
 
Arif Ghamiq said:
Inclinations themselves are not forbidden - the actions, following certain inclinations is forbidden in the Islamic faith, not by me - I adhere by choice as I am free to do.

We humans are inclined toward many actions which are considered religiously forbidden, inappropriate, immoral and even illeagal.

Gambling is forbidden to us as well - but I do not hate, oppress or seek to oppress gamblers, nor do I tell non-Muslims they shouldn't gamble.
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Gambling is a choice, a behaviour. It is nothing like homosexuality, which is a sexual orientation. So I don't consider your comparison valid, or moral.
These bigoted attitudes cause real suffering to real people, both inside and outside your faith. It saddens me that you don't seem to care.
 
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What is the relevance of sin in reference to good/evil condition of person's character of heart.
Can a person sin without knowing sin?
Why are same sex relationships forbidden? Are there specific reasons?

Society fluctuates between acceptability and intolerance, what is truth?
 
KnowSelf said:
What is the relevance of sin in reference to good/evil condition of person's character of heart.
Can a person sin without knowing sin?
Why are same sex relationships forbidden? Are there specific reasons?

Society fluctuates between acceptability and intolerance, what is truth?
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Most major religions are dominated by men, and many men are uncomfortable with homosexuality. I think it really is as simple as that.
 
Cino said:
Still, the gender-binary, heterosexual ideal is being foisted on pre-teen schoolchildren by default. And, people being how they are, they then either pretend the other varieties don't exist (and children sense that something is being hidden, and some may think it is about them being "wrong" somehow, other, undesirable...), or they say nasty things about the other models... so it is being foisted on the pre-teens in any case, in all its glory, just in a biased way.
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Most of the children in school today wonder what the old farts are going on about.

Yes, when we were kids those dang queers knew their place and stayed in closets! (Or we beat them up verbally or physically)

And when our grandparents were in school them uppity blacks knew their place or we beat them up.

Change is hard for dinosaurs, the dang women got shoes, birth control and outta the kitchen it is just too much to handle!

I ain't lgtbqia+ I am an old dog who realizes the error of my ways from my youth when I was an ass to people on the spectrum with disabilities as well as folks with differing gender preferences. As I strive to not be a 'get off my lawn' old fart, I don't understand it all, but am learning I don't understand it all and just because there are people different than I...my not knowing doesn't make non binary a nonthing.
 
wil said:
Most of the children in school today wonder what the old farts are going on about.

Yes, when we were kids those dang queers knew their place and stayed in closets! (Or we beat them up verbally or physically)

And when our grandparents were in school them uppity blacks knew their place or we beat them up.

Change is hard for dinosaurs, the dang women got shoes, birth control and outta the kitchen it is just too much to handle!

I ain't lgtbqia+ I am an old dog who realizes the error of my ways from my youth when I was an ass to people on the spectrum with disabilities as well as folks with differing gender preferences. As I strive to not be a 'get off my lawn' old fart, I don't understand it all, but am learning I don't understand it all and just because there are people different than I...my not knowing doesn't make non binary a nonthing.
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I think that's amongst older children? Young children don't even know that mummy and daddy had to get together to make them babies.

Young children have no racial or gender judgements anyway. To them it's all just the world. They don't have adult judgements yet, imo.

It is an abuse of childhood innocence by woke gender thought police, imo. Leave the children alone please, people. They'll learn about the bad side soon enough.

Get a life, find something constructive to do.
 
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RJM Corbet said:
Leave the children alone please, people. They'll learn about the bad side soon enough.
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I think we're on the same page here, just differing in how to approach our common cause.

Take care.
 
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