About Homosexuality and Religion

As I said, you need to read it before you disbelieve it. It's the government website. Also BBC reportage on protests and court decisions. Whatever @wil no point repeating it. I've got enough of a headache from this discussion already
 
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...hool-same-sex-couples-education-a8831911.html

... from September 2020, all schools will be required to teach relationships education in primary schools. Under plans for compulsory lessons, pupils will be taught about LGBT+ families.

The final guidelines from the government says primary schools should ensure LGBT+ content is “fully integrated” into their programmes of study rather than delivered as a standalone lesson.

... parents do not have the right to withdraw children from lessons on relationships – which are becoming compulsory in all primary schools next year.

Thousands of people believe parents should be allowed to take their children out of lessons on same-sex relationships at primary school ...
 
Elementary kids are gonna talk about who has two dads, who has two moms, whose sister has a girlfriend etc.

I was playing doctor with two twin girls in 2nd grade phoenix Arizona, helped my girlfriend in 5th grade figure out a tampon and saw my first joint the same day...rural town of less than 30k in Nevada...

That was 50 years ago... I dare say kids these days are way ahead of that...it is only the old farts that are in denial.
 
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Mrs Malaprop said:
So if a gay person joins Bahai they have to stay celibate? Do you have many gay members? And how do they respond to this "rule"?
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My wife is gay but I have no idea how many gay people there are in the Baha'i Faith. I know of one Baha'i who grew up in the community that turned out to be gay, and quit the Baha'i Faith to have love, according to his father. I think he still believed in Baha'u'llah. I don't understand the attitude that if you don't have gay sex you don't have love. There have been some Baha'is on the forums that have tried to argue against it or argued that this prohibition is temporary. My wife supports this law.
 
I think homophobia is male-based medieval bigotry, and it disgusts me how some "religious" types condone it. Its also curious how lesbians are invariably exempted from this mindless nonsense.
 
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Truthseeker9 said:
My wife is gay but I have no idea how many gay people there are in the Baha'i Faith. I know of one Baha'i who grew up in the community that turned out to be gay, and quit the Baha'i Faith to have love, according to his father. I think he still believed in Baha'u'llah. I don't understand the attitude that if you don't have gay sex you don't have love. There have been some Baha'is on the forums that have tried to argue against it or argued that this prohibition is temporary. My wife supports this law.
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Your wife is gay? How does that work in practice if you're straight?
 
Mrs Malaprop said:
I think homophobia is male-based medieval bigotry, and it disgusts me how some "religious" types condone it. Its also curious how lesbians are invariably exempted from this mindless nonsense.
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often we find, repeatedly we find (often in headlines) the bigots who are most boisterous and vocal about homophobia are later found with pictures or toe tapping in public bathrooms, religious leaders and political figures standout in this regard. I think this stems from the theory that what we hate in someone else is often something we are struggling with ourselves.

And yes the same bigots get like giddy school children about gay females...they dream of being in a threesome with a couple of women but gag at the thought of mmf.
 
I am painfully conscious of how some religious seem obsessed not so much with the generality of being homosexual, as with the mechanics of it. I think it's probably founded on fear.
 
Thomas said:
I think it's probably founded on fear.
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Fear of their own feelings.

Some men can't hug, hold hands, kiss or show any kind of affection for fear that either others will misinterpret their actions or their body will.

Nonsexual touch and bonding is incredible for humans and we have perverted it to the point that half of society doesn't have access to it.
 
Mrs Malaprop said:
Your wife is gay? How does that work in practice if you're straight?
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My wife is not sexually attracted to me, but loves me very much. Real love has little to with sex. In the early days we had sex, and now have one son. In recent years we don't have sex, and it doesn't matter to me. What my wife really wants is not sex but cuddling together in bed and I provide that for her on most days. I was never sexually attracted to her either, she is fat, and I am not sexually attracted to fat. I think mostly why I have loved her because she has loved me.
 
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Sex is important to me, but not to my wife. I am grateful for her willingness to have sex with me especially knowing she does not like sex.
 
Trailblazer said:
Hmmmmm... So you do not believe like Christians, that Allah loves everybody or that Allah is love itself....
Can you elaborate upon that? I do not believe that either but I get a lot of flak from some of my fellow Baha'is who believe God is All-Loving.
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Salaam Trailblazer ! No I do not believe Allah Al Wadud (The Most Loving) loves everybody, but I do believe Allah's love is beyond the love we can get or give - from or to anybody. Such a belief is not at odds with Qur'an - here is a Quranic list of who Allah loves and who Allah does not love :

Those whom Allah loves

2:195, 222
3:76,134,148
5:13,42,93
7:31,55
9:4,7,108
49:9
60:8
61:4

Those whom Allah does not love

2:190, 205, 276
3.32, 57, 140
4:36, 107, 148
5:18, 54, 64, 87

My belief is that creation is a revelation itself - that our existence and all of existence is constantly telling us about the Source of existence. What the revelation of creation tells me is that The Creator is not "All Loving" - not always kind, but it does not tell me The Creator is unloving or unkind or without compassion.

It seems to me that some believe "God" is a personification of love - as the love goddesses of many ancient cultures, which seems to gives rise to questioning why an "All Loving God" would allow so many seemingly unloving & seemingly cruel things to exist. I believe these things exist - ultimately - to show us the reality/truth of our Creator - beyond the duality of good & bad (evil) - a Supreme transcendent truth reflected in the metaphor of existence.
 
Arif Ghamiq said:
Salaam Trailblazer ! No I do not believe Allah Al Wadud (The Most Loving) loves everybody, but I do believe Allah's love is beyond the love we can get or give - from or to anybody. Such a belief is not at odds with Qur'an - here is a Quranic list of who Allah loves and who Allah does not love :

Those whom Allah loves

2:195, 222
3:76,134,148
5:13,42,93
7:31,55
9:4,7,108
49:9
60:8
61:4

Those whom Allah does not love

2:190, 205, 276
3.32, 57, 140
4:36, 107, 148
5:18, 54, 64, 87
My belief is that creation is a revelation itself - that our existence and all of existence is constantly telling us about the Source of existence. What the revelation of creation tells me is that The Creator is not "All Loving" - not always kind, but it does not tell me The Creator is unloving or unkind or without compassion.
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Wow, thanks for those verses. Baha'is I talk to say they believe God loves everyone, even the evil, but I think they have been unduly influenced by Christianity.

I have been away from this forum for a while. I refuse to argue with people on forums anymore so I do not want to argue about sex or homosexuality. I think sexual behavior is a choice whether people are homosexual or heterosexual and that God makes laws through His Messengers that are in all of our best interests; but some people just don't accept that, and to me that says they must think they know more than God, which is logically impossible, since God is All-Knowing.

Oh well. I have my life, they have theirs. I do not even think sex is necessary, so I am in a minority. I was not always this way though. Many years ago, sex was very important to me. Then when I decided to get serious about my religion and God I decided to give sex up. My life turned around at that point because I felt as if I have been freed from a prison, the prison of self. I do not ever think about sex anymore unless people are talking about it on a forum. No matter how you cut it, sex is about self and desire, and it is physical so it is part of our lower material nature, not part of our higher spiritual nature. That is how I see it and I do not want to argue about it, although I do not mind hearing other opinions.

Sex can be just as addicting as gambling or alcohol. If people do not think they are addicted to sex, they should try giving it up and find out what happens. Who do they think they are fooling? Most people argue that people can live without gambling or alcohol but they need sex. I do not agree with that. Nobody needs sex, people want sex. There is a big difference between a need and a want.
Arif Ghamiq said:
It seems to me that some believe "God" is a personification of love - as the love goddesses of many ancient cultures, which seems to gives rise to questioning why an "All Loving God" would allow so many seemingly unloving & seemingly cruel things to exist. I believe these things exist - ultimately - to show us the reality/truth of our Creator - beyond the duality of good & bad (evil) - a Supreme transcendent truth reflected in the metaphor of existence.
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I guess I am just not seeing what you see, but that does not mean it is not there. I still have a problem with God being All-Loving, but I am open to changing that opinion if I get some evidence which I require. ;)
 
Truthseeker9 said:
My wife is not sexually attracted to me, but loves me very much. Real love has little to with sex. In the early days we had sex, and now have one son. In recent years we don't have sex, and it doesn't matter to me. What my wife really wants is not sex but cuddling together in bed and I provide that for her on most days. I was never sexually attracted to her either, she is fat, and I am not sexually attracted to fat. I think mostly why I have loved her because she has loved me.
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As Dale once said, sex is not love and love is not sex. Sex is a part of our lower material nature, not part of our higher spiritual nature. Unless people want children, I do not think anyone needs sex, they just want sex, and that says it all.

Love is part of our higher spiritual nature, and I do not think it should be conflated with sex, which is purely physical. Sex is about self and desire and physical pleasure, so why can't people at least admit that instead of trying to elevate sex to a higher level? Moreover, there will be no more sex in the spiritual world so I advise people to start adjusting to that before they die.

Probably the reason your marriage has lasted so long is that you put love above sex. I can safely say the same as we have been married about as long as you have. Last night I could not get a hold of Lewis at home for a long time and I was so worried I finally called 911. As it turned out he had gone out and got stuck in traffic owing to an accident and his cell phone had died so he could not call me. We always meet at the grocery store after I leave work on Friday so finally I thought to call the grocery store and when I found out he was there. He should have called me, as I thought he must have died and had the sheriff going to our house. I was mad at him for not calling but I also realized just how much he means to me and how much I love him, in spite of our constant bickering. No, love has nothing to do with sex. It is a spiritual thing.
 
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