If it was "God's", then Jesus would not have to pray to His Father in heaven.
No .. it is the spirit that God GAVE Jesus .. Jesus was SENT by God.
The Jewish Zohar Shekhinah and the Christian, & Mormon Holy Spirit
- Thread starter ScholarlySeeker
- Start date
If it was "God's", then Jesus would not have to pray to His Father in heaven.
No .. it is the spirit that God GAVE Jesus .. Jesus was SENT by God.
stranger
the divine ignorance (and friends)
I think you are just having some fun now my brother. I explained my views here in another post. You seem somewhat distracted, lost a little of your sharpness. Cat seems to have everyone's tongue around here for now, I'll come back a little later.
Right now, as I do every week, I face preparing for Shabbat and as I think folks here know, I do not post on the Sabbath. So until I get give a reply proper attention, I will leave you with two thoughts. 1) Think context. 2) Think maybe there is something off about the translation.Rabbi, thanks... I think.
Okay...
10 “And I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit of grace and pleas for mercy, so that, when they look on me, on him whom they have pierced, they shall mourn for him, as one mourns for an only child, and weep bitterly over him, as one weeps over a firstborn.11 On that day the mourning in Jerusalem will be as great as the mourning for Hadad-rimmon in the plain of Megiddo. -- Zechariah 12
I dare to say that this concerns the Jewish Messiah.
stranger
the divine ignorance (and friends)
Shalom!
Mmm .. Abraham, David, Moses AND JESUS never talked about a logos.
Only some author of one of the Gospels talks about a logos.
Why do you want to make the whole foundation of faith on a logos?
Jesus did not alter the foundation of faith from the shema.
And Jesus answered him,
The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:
Mark 12: 29
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+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
++ I am born in a rank which recognizes no superior but God, ++
+++++ to whom alone I am responsible for my actions; +++++++ +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
- King Richard [ the Lionheart ] of England -
I can't say that applies to me
++ I am born in a rank which recognizes no superior but God, ++
+++++ to whom alone I am responsible for my actions; +++++++ +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
- King Richard [ the Lionheart ] of England -
I can't say that applies to me
"In the beginning was the Λόγος [logos]" ---> Gospel of John
Jesus didn't say that. No messenger of God said that.
"In the beginning was the reason"
"In the beginning was a philosophical concept"
1 "In the beginning was Jesus"
2 "Jesus was with God"
3 "Jesus is God"
In the beginning was God [ no doubt at all ! ]
Jesus didn't say that. No messenger of God said that.
"In the beginning was the reason"
"In the beginning was a philosophical concept"
1 "In the beginning was Jesus"
2 "Jesus was with God"
3 "Jesus is God"
In the beginning was God [ no doubt at all ! ]
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Perhaps somebody in high authority is reading this.
Why don't you put me on a cross to suffer?
That is what they did to Jesus, for telling the truth.
Why don't you put me on a cross to suffer?
That is what they did to Jesus, for telling the truth.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
1 In the beginning was Iblees [ created by Almighty God ]
2 Iblees was with God [ true ]
3 Iblees is God [ false ]
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
1 In the beginning was Iblees [ created by Almighty God ]
2 Iblees was with God [ true ]
3 Iblees is God [ false ]
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Well no, Jesus spoke Aramaic or something like it, not Greek.
Did you know that the two modern English words "shirt" and "skirt" are the same word, only one pronounciation came via Anglo-Saxon and the other via Danish? But nowadays they mean rather different things. And this was only 1000 years ago.
"Logos" in theological discourse vs Philosophical discourse goes back almost a millennium more, I think to Philo of Alexandria, who was Jewish, just like Jesus, but who also spoke Greek.
Don't get hung up on 20th century based word play / puns regarding word usage almost 2000 years ago, is what I want to say to you. That won't lead anywhere interesting.
St. Wulstan, Bishop of Worcester from 1062 to 1095
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Wulstan is also buried in Worcester cathedral. [ along with Richard the Lionheart's brother John ]
A social reformer, Wulfstan struggled to bridge the gap between the old and new regimes, and to alleviate the suffering of the poor. He was a strong opponent of the slave trade, and together with Lanfranc, was mainly responsible for ending the trade from Bristol.
After the Norman conquest of England, Wulfstan was the only English-born bishop to retain his diocese for any significant time after the Conquest (all others had been replaced or succeeded by Normans by 1075)
Worcester Cathedral has been described as possibly the most interesting of all England’s cathedrals, especially architecturally. The first cathedral was built in 680, then Bishop Oswald built another in 983, and established a monastery attached to it. Wulfstan rebuilt the cathedral in 1084 after the Norman Conquest, which was the beginning of the present building.
During Anglo-Saxon times, Worcester was one of the most important monastic cathedrals in the country, a centre of great learning and of the richest diocese in the kingdom, a tradition continued in the Middle Ages, refected in the wealth of the cathedral library.
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Wulstan is also buried in Worcester cathedral. [ along with Richard the Lionheart's brother John ]
A social reformer, Wulfstan struggled to bridge the gap between the old and new regimes, and to alleviate the suffering of the poor. He was a strong opponent of the slave trade, and together with Lanfranc, was mainly responsible for ending the trade from Bristol.
After the Norman conquest of England, Wulfstan was the only English-born bishop to retain his diocese for any significant time after the Conquest (all others had been replaced or succeeded by Normans by 1075)
Worcester Cathedral has been described as possibly the most interesting of all England’s cathedrals, especially architecturally. The first cathedral was built in 680, then Bishop Oswald built another in 983, and established a monastery attached to it. Wulfstan rebuilt the cathedral in 1084 after the Norman Conquest, which was the beginning of the present building.
During Anglo-Saxon times, Worcester was one of the most important monastic cathedrals in the country, a centre of great learning and of the richest diocese in the kingdom, a tradition continued in the Middle Ages, refected in the wealth of the cathedral library.
I don't think that the words logos, God and Jesus can be recognised as meaning the same thing.
They do not !
It is only the fact that medieval Christians believed it to be "the word of God" [ from a disciple of Jesus ]
that they believed logos = Jesus.
..and then we got the crusades .. each side feeling justified by God etc.
The vast majority of scholars today [ Christian and otherwise ]
no longer believe that "the John" in the Gospel is actually a disciple of Jesus.
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If that's your belief, I won't argue.
May I ask whether you believe that God is a thing (since you phrased it like that)?
I think you know what "the Muslim God" is .. the same as "the Christian God" .. the same as "the Jewish God".
I believe in that.
I said:
RJM Corbet said:
In fact I do not know any god, but I see what you mean, and I respect your beliefs.
However, this being a forum where many different beliefs (and unbelief) are the topic of discussion, I'd like to remind you that others hold different beliefs from yours, and that while it is on-topic to tell us about your beliefs, this is not the forum to incessantly give testimony or profess one's belief to the exclusion of all other points of view.
Recently there was a discussion about Names of God. While obviously not a Muslim name of God, can you see how Logos might be something comparable, to those of other faiths?
stranger
the divine ignorance (and friends)
Greetings my brother.
1. In the beginning, "created"? But not simply of God, uncreated? "In the Beginning" does not always mean created, it's sometimes just a nod to our limited view. It's a starting point (for our limited minds). The Word (Christ) is uncreated, but more like the arms of God which extend to us.
2. A high-ranking angel was with God? Yes, but he was not God, nor was he the arms of God which reach for us.
3. A high-ranking angel is not God. Christ (in the sense I used it) is the arms of God to reach out to us and is, therefore, God.
What does "in the beginning" mean? it is ambiguous.
"In the beginning, there was a fairy godmother".
Of course, it is designed to make one think of Genesis 1
"In the beginning God created the heaven and the Earth." [ NOT ambiguous ]
Why is it not ambiguous? Because it is not claiming anything other that what happened at the beginning of time.
I know .. but it is circular reasoning. i.e. Christ is God because he is the logos etc.
"The arms of God" reached out to us from Moses and Abraham as well.
OK, last word from me here.
So we're done. I'm bored with your trolling of Christians.
I find 'some author' a disrespectful comment, as do I your opinion that some 95+% of Christians profess a faith in "incorrect dogma based on what I envisage to be falsehood / superstition."
So we're done. I'm bored with your trolling of Christians.
John 21:24-25 references a Beloved Disciple, stating of him: "This is the disciple who is testifying to these things and has written them, and we know that his testimony is true;
Do we? How?
Who is this "beloved disciple" that speaks of a logos?
I know what you mean .. you refer to my attacking the trinity.
..and you believe that "Christianity" has to be trinitarian.
You are of course entitled to your own opinion.
Same way you believe in the Quran...
So, please, as a parting comment, I don't piss on your sacred book, please don't piss on mine.
Go in peace.