The Jewish Zohar Shekhinah and the Christian, & Mormon Holy Spirit

stranger said:
Here are just three set of scriptures that seem to validate the doctrine of eternal judgement:

Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels... -- Matthew 25:41

Wherefore if thy hand or thy foot offend thee, cut them off, and cast them from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life halt or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet to be cast into everlasting fire. -- Matthew 18:8

and finally,

The sinners in Zion are afraid; fearfulness hath surprised the hypocrites. Who among us shall dwell with the devouring fire? who among us shall dwell with everlasting burnings? -- Isaiah 33:14

With all the usual caveats in place (IMO), my view is that for law to be law, holy, just and true, it must follow through with its threats against disobedience. If man is not able to "fix" himself, I can come to none other conclusion than everlasting punishment awaits. The sins mankind commits are bad enough, but the problem goes deeper. There is a disease in the heart that is so much a part of him that he can't fix it by normal means (his own effort). This is also the "lump" of the writer of the Cloud of Unknowing, Paul's "carnal mind", "old man", etc.

Scriptures also indicate that mankind is not born pure and sinless. Was it David that said something like, "I came out of the womb, speaking lies." (this is a paraphrase, will look that up in a little bit) Not to say that an innocent baby is guilty of anything, only that everyone bears a curse from their very birth into this world. It then develops, as the environment calls it out. But it was there from the beginning.

Ah, here we go, Psalms 58:3:
The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies.
(I think the wicked is us.)

Now, I don't have the all the answers, if any, but I just throw in here and hope something positive might happen. I have no control, just have to roll with the flow.
Click to expand...
For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
But every man in his own order; Christ the firstfruits; afterwards they that are Christ’s at his coming.

I don’t believe God will let one person perish. I interpret the above to mean that everyone is dead in the world, we are born dead, also called asleep, until Christ awakens within them, and that awakening happens at an appointed time for each person (every man in his own order). I believe every person is Christ, the one being in whom all are made alive. Just as every person is Adam, the one by whom all die (the dust man, earth man, generic humanity). When we awaken, really awaken, we stop identifying as Adam, the earth man, the man locked in form, locked in physical life; and we begin to identify as the animating spirit that is life, that is making the dust man alive. And that spirit (or consciousness) is the One Spirit (One Consciousness) of all creation, or the One Being I call Jesus (or Jehovah). I believe that it may take one many lives before Christ awakens.

The letter Lamed in Hebrew means ox-goad, as a verb it means to teach, and I understand this letter to represent (among several things) an innate activity, can call it grace, within Spirit to lead or guide itself.

To make a long story short, I believe, that I, and according to what I read in scripture, am redeemed, cleansed, sanctified, holy, righteous, sinless, once I stop living from the dust man, sensual man, and begin living after the Spirit in whom I have life. And I begin to clean my defiled mind ( because I am mind - consciousness) of all unrighteousness (or incorrect thinking). So if I am forgiven, so is all humanity (for whom Christ gave his life).

there are many passages in scripture that say God will forsake no one.
Some people say we are in hell now, being burned in the fires of purification.

I believe that we are creating our own lives by the mental patterns or consciousness that we habitually hold, and that every battle and story in scripture is talking about the mind. That the only thing we ever need to concern ourselves with is our mind.

Gotta get ready for work.
 
  • Like
Reactions: RJM
PricelessPearl said:
For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
But every man in his own order; Christ the firstfruits; afterwards they that are Christ’s at his coming.

I don’t believe God will let one person perish. I interpret the above to mean that everyone is dead in the world, we are born dead, also called asleep, until Christ awakens within them, and that awakening happens at an appointed time for each person (every man in his own order). I believe every person is Christ, the one being in whom all are made alive. Just as every person is Adam, the one by whom all die (the dust man, earth man, generic humanity). When we awaken, really awaken, we stop identifying as Adam, the earth man, the man locked in form, locked in physical life; and we begin to identify as the animating spirit that is life, that is making the dust man alive. And that spirit (or consciousness) is the One Spirit (One Consciousness) of all creation, or the One Being I call Jesus (or Jehovah). I believe that it may take one many lives before Christ awakens.

The letter Lamed in Hebrew means ox-goad, as a verb it means to teach, and I understand this letter to represent (among several things) an innate activity, can call it grace, within Spirit to lead or guide itself.

To make a long story short, I believe, that I, and according to what I read in scripture, am redeemed, cleansed, sanctified, holy, righteous, sinless, once I stop living from the dust man, sensual man, and begin living after the Spirit in whom I have life. And I begin to clean my defiled mind ( because I am mind - consciousness) of all unrighteousness (or incorrect thinking). So if I am forgiven, so is all humanity (for whom Christ gave his life).

there are many passages in scripture that say God will forsake no one.
Some people say we are in hell now, being burned in the fires of purification.

I believe that we are creating our own lives by the mental patterns or consciousness that we habitually hold, and that every battle and story in scripture is talking about the mind. That the only thing we ever need to concern ourselves with is our mind.

Gotta get ready for work.
Click to expand...

PricelessPearl,

You are right of course and we're really not that far off in our beliefs. This is good stuff, a lot here that I need to read back over again. Let me just say that eternal fire, wherever it may be found, in time, outside time, is eternally judging the dust man. That judgement is eternal, sort of a bulwark against this ever happening again. For us, the idea is not being cut in half by judgement so much as it is becoming more ourselves than we have ever been before. This is a very good thing. IMO The dust man has only marred the image of God that is in us.
 
muhammad_isa said:
"Did Christ bear the sins of the elect alone on the cross, or did his death expiate the sins of all human beings?"
Click to expand...
The living Christ forgives sin and takes upon himself the burden of the lost and broken who turn to him.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew 11:28-30&version=KJV

28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.

30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.
 
RJM Corbet said:
The living Christ forgives sin and takes upon himself the burden of the lost and broken who turn to him.
Click to expand...

RJM, first let me apologize for some of my behavior lately. It was crude. At this moment I wish all of you could just kill me and put me out of my misery. :(

But I would ask you to look deeper at this. Did not Christ die for all?

It's a delicate thing though.

Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

Paul can't just spit it all out, he has to give it in bits and pieces. There are veils upon it and the circumvention of the law's purpose would lead to utter and complete disaster, true antinomianism.

The idea is that once we have struggled with and been thoroughly defeated by the law, and thus truly abide in death, we will then have eyes to see and begin to pick up the scattered pieces that he and other holy writers have left us. It's a step up on the latter, you don't have to destroy the system or anything, just look and live.
 
Last edited:
God comes to me, I do not have power to make it happen. Those healed by Christ in the gospels all approached him first and asked him?
 
Last edited:
Simple faith (of a child) is all God asks for, any time any place and religion. Imo that is the law. Do I think Christ is going to return in glory to tell people what to eat?
 
Last edited:
RJM Corbet said:
Simple faith is all God asks for, any time any place and religion. Imo that is the law. Do I think Christ is going to return in glory to tell people what to eat?
Click to expand...

The law is killing words. It's meant to kill, not to save. It can never have mercy, never give life. Now if Christ died for all, he did not die in vain. It just doesn't work that way. Many turn to him in this life by way of mutual attraction. Many pursue other paths and faiths, many are agnostics, many are atheists. If he died for all, are these to be left out in the end?
 
stranger said:
The law is killing words. It's meant to kill, not to save. It can never have mercy, never give life. Now if Christ died for all, he did not die in vain. It just doesn't work that way. Many turn to him in this life by way of mutual attraction. Many pursue other paths and faiths, many are agnostics, many are atheists. If he died for all, are these to be left out in the end?
Click to expand...
The living Christ is the bridge between God and man. The narrow path. Spirit and nature. It's not a Jesus cult, imo Cheers ...
 
Last edited:
Cheers (not drunk but just sick at the heart here), but it's just a putting right of all that was lost in the fall. In Christianity, that is what Christ's work entails. His work is whole and complete, we do not see the extent of it in time, but in eternity, all has been accomplished.
 
  • Like
Reactions: RJM
muhammad_isa said:
We can't all be right..

@stranger you are right that Jesus will be returning at some point.
@RJM Corbet doesn't care, but he claims to love Jesus o_O
Click to expand...
I don't claim anything. That's the problem. You keep telling everybody else what they believe. You should knock it off and turn to your own soul. Do you think God cares about all this wrangling?
 
Don't tell me ... yes of course you do
 
muhammad_isa said:
We can't all be right..

@stranger you are right that Jesus will be returning at some point.
@RJM Corbet doesn't care, but he claims to love Jesus o_O
Click to expand...

I do know this however, once Christ descended into the deepest depths (and it had to be deeper than anyone else had gone) he led captivity captive and gave good gifts to men. After that he descended, he ascended higher than any of mankind could possibly go, and he filled all things, guaranteeing the restoration of all that was lost.... o_O
 
  • Like
Reactions: RJM
Some of us just love the idea of others frying and wearing jackets of fire and being forced to drink unmentionable substances, whilst they themselves so grand and pure and bound for celestial gardens ... I don't have words for it ...
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top