PricelessPearl
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I have posted on this subject many times (almost every time I post). So once again, either you don’t understand what I am saying to you or you choose to ignore it.
The Jewish Zohar Shekhinah and the Christian, & Mormon Holy Spirit
- Thread starter ScholarlySeeker
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I almost get the impression that some people find the subject of religion a joke.
I suppose satan [evil] is not real either.
All praise is for God who has brought me out of darkness into light.
"Get thee behind me satan !"
I suppose satan [evil] is not real either.
All praise is for God who has brought me out of darkness into light.
"Get thee behind me satan !"
stranger
the divine ignorance (and friends)
I'm not sure if I ever answered this before, I think I might have replied to RJM instead. I'm bored and actually quite miserable, though still sober (for now). I'll try to answer as best I can. His death expiated the sins of all human beings. This is a positional truth and has been accomplished outside of time but has to play out in time. Just have to have faith in it, work with it, be patient.
We've seen the first shoe drop with the elect (Israel, the church), we have yet to see the second shoe drop, but it's coming.
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How?
What does it even mean?
Does it mean that somebody who is evil will have the same fate as somebody who is a saint, for example?
stranger
the divine ignorance (and friends)
After being purged by hell fire. That which does not abide the flame will be burned up. Doing well, suffering, loving has it's reward in the afterlife. Things not built upon love will be purged though.
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I'm sorry?
What is this mechanism that a physical body with God inside [whatever that means], dying on a cross, changes anything as regards the swearing, conniving traitor?
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stranger
the divine ignorance (and friends)
Well, that cuts close to the question that all who let go of the moorings of orthodoxy have to answer for themselves. I find it is better to just face the question head on than retreat into rote responses.
The question is, was the word/Christ manifest in the flesh and did he die on the cross for us, or is it just the spirit within each of us who is the Christ? Or is it both? My mind leans toward what was taught in the new testament, that Christ was manifest on earth and died for us here, in time.
But what of the eternal spirit within man. As some of us believe, and Eckhart came very close to saying, it has qualities which are uncreated and thus very God. Where the two come together I leave open to discussion. There is some confusion on my part, I have to admit. We have God manifest in the flesh as Christ, then we have the spirit manifest in mankind as God (the uncreated).
This could mean something, I'm just not sure what: man with the uncreated spirit inside is yet sinful, the image of God inside has been marred by disease. God manifest in Christ is sinless, he has flesh and blood and yet is without sin. If he had sin, he could not be the perfect sacrifice (for the whole world). So, we seem to be at a place where sinful man with the uncreated spirit inside still needs a sinless sacrifice. Confusing.
stranger
the divine ignorance (and friends)
These are things that make being protected by a tradition and it's dogma look pretty good and in fact that is a good thing for many. It was for me also. But since I no longer belong under that umbrella, I am suddenly faced with questions that I have no ready answers for. This is a good place for the non-scholar's confession: "I don't know" (but am willing to be taught, please Lord). One is at a place where living things must replace inanimate concepts. Other people will look on and say, they're nuts, but here we are, needing living revelation.
stranger
the divine ignorance (and friends)
I remember when I became a Christian the spirit had Christ before my mind's eye all the time, the answer for the miserable and guilty ruin that I found myself to be through that same spirit's revealing to me my true condition. Now I don't remember at any time thinking that it was Christ within me that I needed, to me it seemed to come from the outside, knocking on the heart's door in an unmistakable way.
I'm afraid I'm none the wiser.
I don't understand how I can be saved by an all powerful God who comes to us in human form and dies on a cross.
It is a most absurd concept to me .. after having been taken out of darkness into light, that is.
I suppose you must think that the Qur'an is all lies. A cheap copycat fraud. Oh well.
God knows best
stranger
the divine ignorance (and friends)
So... Even though we might have an uncreated spark within us, there still seems to be something we need from the sinless Christ who became a sacrifice for us? Hmm. We still need his sinlessness covering us through faith in his death and resurrection, and that to be accomplished by the Holy Spirit (who is also the spirit of Christ). Through faith we receive his finished work and then it begins to be accomplished in us. Law slays us, only because we take our walk seriously and put out every ounce of effort we have. We fall there, die in a sense, then find new life through a deeper identification with Christ in his death and resurrection.
stranger
the divine ignorance (and friends)
I'm afraid I'm none the wiser.
I don't understand how I can be saved by an all powerful God who comes to us in human form and dies on a cross.
It is a most absurd concept to me .. after having been taken out of darkness into light, that is.
I suppose you must think that the Qur'an is all lies. A cheap copycat fraud. Oh well.
God knows best
No, not at all, I am just willing to be honest and say I don't really know much.
My experience is from Christianity, I have never been Muslim. I'm none the wiser also, just sort of thinking out loud. Being Christian, I tend to be Christ-centric. If I had been Muslim or of some other tradition I might see it differently.
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I can understand why Almighty God would send us "sons of God" .. messengers .. prophets.
It makes a lot of sense.
I believe in the concept of the Jewish messiah. That is what I understand Jesus claimed to be.
It is a long time passed since Muhammad and Jesus were here.
Almighty God knows when the right time is for the messiah to reappear.
He will save the world from disaster .. that is what is prohesised by Jews, Christians and Muslims, within their own individual interpretations of it.
There will be a global Holy age.
..but the trumpets must be blown eventually. After 1000 years, mankind will return to ignorance once more.
That's it. The end . no more messiah/messengers to come.
It makes a lot of sense.
I believe in the concept of the Jewish messiah. That is what I understand Jesus claimed to be.
It is a long time passed since Muhammad and Jesus were here.
Almighty God knows when the right time is for the messiah to reappear.
He will save the world from disaster .. that is what is prohesised by Jews, Christians and Muslims, within their own individual interpretations of it.
There will be a global Holy age.
..but the trumpets must be blown eventually. After 1000 years, mankind will return to ignorance once more.
That's it. The end . no more messiah/messengers to come.
stranger
the divine ignorance (and friends)
Oh, I don't know about that. However, I have reached the end of what I can see spiritually at the moment. It's not a bad thing to admit that and not try to fill the vacuum with dry concepts. I gots to have the living stuff, God knows it, I know it. I'll admit my ignorance and wait as long as it takes. I guess I don't see any shame in that.
Now, I do have, more and more, sort of a turning of the heart toward Israel, and I think unprecedented things are going to happen there. How it will all play out, I do not know.
Looks like I've babbled on quite a bit tonight and I'm sure have bored what few are reading. Maybe it's time to give it a rest and see what our Lord will have for us tomorrow. Now after having said that I'll probably be back here in a couple of hours. Really having a lot of trouble sleeping and a lot of trouble staying away from here.
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Think about it.
What happened last time Jesus was here?
You don't think that every single person in the world will accept him, do you?
That is not logical.
..and don't forget .. there is "the beast"
You don't think that every single person in the world will accept him, do you?
That is not logical.
..and don't forget .. there is "the beast"
stranger
the divine ignorance (and friends)
Well, if I typed here what I really thought it would probably offend every Jewish person within earshot... Not that it's a bad thing it's just that I'm not sure how it would be taken.
stranger
the divine ignorance (and friends)
What happened last time Jesus was here?
You don't think that every single person in the world will accept him, do you?
That is not logical.
..and don't forget .. there is "the beast"
Yes, pesky devil, that one. Well, if we believe scripture (new testament also) the work he accomplished "last time" is good enough for "all time". It's just a matter of the blinders being lifted, and this is a timely thing accomplished by the eternal spirit. Men and women will be there to work, to help, but all depends upon the spirit.
I have to admit that I do think every person in the world will accept him, though for many it might occur after death. (Every knee shall bow and so forth).
Now I would love to be part of the coming work, but I think I might run my physical string out before then. However, I would still like to do what I can to help. Just the little things.
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I'm talking about the beast mentioned in Revelation.
It's a possibilty. Cash is almost extinct, and those that don't have "the mark" [bank status]
will be severely persecuted [ the poor, unfortunate ]
The beast and the false prophet gather the kings of the earth and their armies to prepare for war against "He who sits on a white horse". The battle results in the beast being seized, along with the false prophet, where they are thrown alive into "the lake of fire". Those against the "King of Kings, and Lord of Lords" are killed and left for the fowls. In the lake of fire, the beast and the false prophet are tormented day and night forever and ever.
The one who is sitting "on a white horse" is none other than "the lamb of God" i.e. Jesus, son of Mary