The Jewish Zohar Shekhinah and the Christian, & Mormon Holy Spirit

RJM Corbet said:
..whilst they themselves are pure and bound for celestial gardens
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You must be joking! Look at the world. Which nation is an outstanding example of purity?
No .. satan has no real power, but while we listen to his nonsense, he just drags us into hell with him.

Some sort of fairy-tale "happy ever after" is just what satan wants us to think..
..and blaming satan will be of no avail on the day of judgement. The trumpets will be blown.
 
RJM Corbet said:
Some of us just love the idea of others frying and wearing jackets of fire and being forced to drink unmentionable substances, whilst they themselves so grand and pure and bound for celestial gardens ... I don't have words for it ...
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I think sometimes we can be called to heal situations, hearts, by giving ourselves completely where it is needed. That is my calling here, I don't run from it. It's not anything great, all that is needed is willingness.
 
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I just want to get done here whatever needs to be done, and then I will need that one who holds the key to my heart to heal me also, as I will do for them. In other words we will heal one another's hearts.
 
@stranger and @RJM Corbet

7 The first angel sounded his trumpet, and there came hail and fire mixed with blood, and it was hurled down on the earth. A third of the earth was burned up, a third of the trees were burned up, and all the green grass was burned up.
8 The second angel sounded his trumpet, and something like a huge mountain, all ablaze, was thrown into the sea. A third of the sea turned into blood,
9 a third of the living creatures in the sea died, and a third of the ships were destroyed.

10 The third angel sounded his trumpet, and a great star, blazing like a torch, fell from the sky on a third of the rivers and on the springs of water—
11 the name of the star is Wormwood. A third of the waters turned bitter, and many people died from the waters that had become bitter.
- Revelation 8 -

Who is responsible for this? Almighty God .. or satan?
If it is not a true revelation, then why is it in the Bible?
 
muhammad_isa said:
@stranger and @RJM Corbet

7 The first angel sounded his trumpet, and there came hail and fire mixed with blood, and it was hurled down on the earth. A third of the earth was burned up, a third of the trees were burned up, and all the green grass was burned up.
8 The second angel sounded his trumpet, and something like a huge mountain, all ablaze, was thrown into the sea. A third of the sea turned into blood, 9 a third of the living creatures in the sea died, and a third of the ships were destroyed.

10 The third angel sounded his trumpet, and a great star, blazing like a torch, fell from the sky on a third of the rivers and on the springs of water—
11 the name of the star is Wormwood. A third of the waters turned bitter, and many people died from the waters that had become bitter.
- Revelation 8 -

Who is responsible for this? Almighty God .. or satan?
If it is not a true revelation, then why is it in the Bible?
Click to expand...

True revelation. Origins and purpose of evil, very complicated, but evil ones (I call them the dark swordsmen) are part of the refiner's fire. They serve us, but perhaps neither they nor us know to what extent.

At some point however, their purpose has been served and the evil is removed. This is a part of the restoration.
 
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muhammad_isa said:
it is not a true revelation, then why is it in the Bible?
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Revelation is Johannine. What about the rest of Johannine NT writings? What parts of John do you want to accept, and which to reject?

It seems to be you, a militant anti-Christian demanding the NT should be taken literally where it suits, and rejected when it does not?
 
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stranger said:
True revelation. Origins and purpose of evil, very complicated
...
At some point however, their purpose has been served and the evil is removed..
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This is just playing with the concept of eternity, imo.
It seems that mankind is destined for destruction. Why would that be?

Why would God allow [ or even deal out ] such evil?
It makes no sense to me, that the reality of God in this world metamorphs into
something which CANNOT allow evil.

Isn't it just a case of being duped by satan into thinking that reality is all cotton wool?
Almighty God is reality, and trying to alter the reality of an eternal hell is of our own making.
..something that primarily happened at the Reformation, as Protestantism emerged.
 
muhammad_isa said:
@stranger and @RJM Corbet

7 The first angel sounded his trumpet, and there came hail and fire mixed with blood, and it was hurled down on the earth. A third of the earth was burned up, a third of the trees were burned up, and all the green grass was burned up.
8 The second angel sounded his trumpet, and something like a huge mountain, all ablaze, was thrown into the sea. A third of the sea turned into blood,
9 a third of the living creatures in the sea died, and a third of the ships were destroyed.

10 The third angel sounded his trumpet, and a great star, blazing like a torch, fell from the sky on a third of the rivers and on the springs of water—
11 the name of the star is Wormwood. A third of the waters turned bitter, and many people died from the waters that had become bitter.
- Revelation 8 -

Who is responsible for this? Almighty God .. or satan?
If it is not a true revelation, then why is it in the Bible?
Click to expand...

We are responsible for this, Bible Prophecy foretells what our neglect of God's Messages brings upon all of us.

We are the Evil, we are the Good, it all unfolds through the choices we make as an individual on to a collective humanity.

Regards Tony
 
muhammad_isa said:
This is just playing with the concept of eternity, imo.
It seems that mankind is destined for destruction. Why would that be?

Why would God allow [ or even deal out ] such evil?
It makes no sense to me, that the reality of God in this world metamorphs into
something which CANNOT allow evil.
Click to expand...

Can God create a rock so big that he cannot carry it? Check it out:

5 I am the Lord, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me:
6 That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the Lord, and there is none else.
7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things. -- Isaiah 45:5-7

Whatever the Lord creates, he is big enough to carry. With evil, it is allowed for a purpose. Whatever destruction it accomplishes, the Lord is big enough to turn it to good. Here we are talking about God Most High, Possessor of Heaven and Earth, denoting a transcendence no angel is able to look into. Battles occur at lower levels but this is where the long game is played.

muhammad_isa said:
Isn't it just a case of being duped by satan into thinking that reality is all cotton wool?
Almighty God is reality, and trying to alter the reality of an eternal hell is of our own making.
..something that primarily happened at the Reformation, as Protestantism emerged.
Click to expand...

Fffft. Just a continuation of the confusion of tongues. It's a safety device, keeping mankind from destroying itself by uniting in an egoic and monstrous construction. Divided against himself, he presents less danger to himself as a whole. And evil is perhaps confused also? Sometimes even led into the folly of destroying/punishing itself. Of course you know I don't seek to alter the reality of an eternal hell. It will be needed, because...

I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear. -- Isaiah 45: 23
 
stranger said:
With evil, it is allowed for a purpose. Whatever destruction it accomplishes, the Lord is big enough to turn it to good..
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Yes, I can see that. We have been given free-will for a reason. Almighty God knows that righteousness will
triumph over evil. It's not a case of waving a magic wand to REMOVE the evil though. That would mean
that we no longer have free-will.

stranger said:
Of course you know I don't seek to alter the reality of an eternal hell. It will be needed, because...

I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear. -- Isaiah 45: 23
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Well, good luck with that. I don't see that happening. I see that mankind is heading for disaster, and that we need Jesus
to come and save us. Some people say "they don't care".
What? They don't care about the path that mankind is on? What DO they care about then?

It's quite simple. Jesus is the Messiah. It is the Messiah's job to save us.
People who believe that Jesus is God and we are all saved already must be blind.

NB I believe that your quote is taken out of context
 
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muhammad_isa said:
Yes, I can see that. We have been given free-will for a reason. Almighty God knows that righteousness will
triumph over evil. It's not a case of waving a magic wand to REMOVE the evil though. That would mean
that we no longer have free-will.
Click to expand...


Take it as it comes, let your heart be softened, care for those the Lord has brought into your path, your tribe so to speak. Do your best, be humble, let the Lord work through you. Show mercy when you can, speak a good word, make someone's day better. Don't be afraid to be vulnerable, weak. The Lord works through our weakness. He can do things we can't even imagine.



muhammad_isa said:
Well, good luck with that. I don't see that happening. I see that mankind is heading for disaster, and that we need Jesus
to come and save us. Some people say "they don't care".
What? They don't care about the path that mankind is on? What DO they care about then?
Click to expand...

Stay within yourself, know your path, try to stay true to it, do all the little things. Leave the big stuff to God.
 
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muhammad_isa said:
Well, good luck with that. I don't see that happening. I see that mankind is heading for disaster, and that we need Jesus
to come and save us. Some people say "they don't care".
What? They don't care about the path that mankind is on? What DO they care about then?

It's quite simple. Jesus is the Messiah. It is the Messiah's job to save us.
People who believe that Jesus is God and we are all saved already must be blind.
Click to expand...
So you believe Jesus is the Messiah and even though he already came and died on the cross (for the sins of the world) and rose, that he still needs to save humanity. Based on a literary translation of scripture.

The name Jesus means Jehovah is Salvation (or Jehovah is the Saviour). I don’t think of the Bible as historical but rather allegorical.

2 Corinthians 13:5
Examine yourselves whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates.

As for me, my Saviour is within me. He isn’t coming from out there somewhere (heaven is within us - to enter the depths of our being is to rise or ascend - into our Is-ness, our I Am-ness - the Source of being ). And he definitely does come, from above. And again, for me, there is no other Saviour beside him.
 
PricelessPearl said:
So you believe Jesus is the Messiah and even though he already came and died on the cross (for the sins of the world) and rose, that he still needs to save humanity..
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I expect you agree with this?

Those who contend that Christ will reign on earth for a thousand years "do not wait for Christ, but for the Antichrist." The idea of Jesus returning to this earth as a king is a heretical concept to the Church, equated to "the expectations of the Jews who wanted the Messiah to be an earthly King."

A bit of an anti-Jewish attitude, don't you think?
Jesus was a Jew, who professed belief in the ten commandments,
with the first being ""Hear O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one,"

Jesus is also reported to have said "Why dost thou call me good? None is good but God alone."
The word "Christ" is Greek for messiaih.
 
muhammad_isa said:
A bit of an anti-Jewish attitude, don't you think?
Jesus was a Jew, who professed belief in the ten commandments,
with the first being ""Hear O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one,"
Click to expand...
I didn’t post this so won’t comment.
 
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muhammad_isa said:
Jesus is also reported to have said "Why dost thou call me good? None is good but God alone."
The word "Christ" is Greek for messiaih.
Click to expand...
So you are referring to my switching Massiah for Saviour? I feel confident that the terms are used to mean the same thing.

The Promised One is the Son, whether to Abraham or to us.

Abraham being the father of the multitudes (or Father God) and Sarah promised to be the mother of nations (or Mother God). Again for me, this is allegory.

Indeed only God is good - goodness itself. Any goodness we have is of God. I also understand Jesus and Christ to be two different things; yet they are One because the Father and the Son are One. Jesus, or Jehovah, (God) is who imparts of himself, or descends into creation giving form and life to all. In humanity he is the Christ (but again one with the Father). Jesus and Christ are used interchangeably as well.
 
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