Did Jesus Exist

RJM Corbet said:
..it would certainly appear to be illogical, in the short term..
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Hmm .. Almighty God is the Best of Planners.
If we study the last 2000 years of history in its entirety, we might get some idea of why the Messiah came when he did,
and why he will return to complete his mission.

Orthodox Christianity evolved over centuries, and was adopted by the Roman Empire. That in turn,
split into East and West .. enter Muhammad, peace be with him.

Since the industrial revolution, which followed the so-called reformation, a new ideology based on science
is replacing faith in the West and spreading globally.
..the Divine plan cannot be thwarted, and Hashem knows best when Jesus will return.

There are many different creeds, that have evolved for varying reasons.
Almighty God guides us all. What else is there, but relying on God to guide us, and sincerely seeking truth?
 
RabbiO said:
1) Scribes and Pharisees are not synonymous.
2) Scribes and Pharisees most often were not among the rich and privileged.
3) The portrait of the scribes and Pharisees given in Christian scripture is one dimensional - imo - making a letter vs. spirit argument not the black and white supposition a lot people think it is.
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OK .. you've said what it's not..
..so, tell us about Jesus, son of Mary .. who was he? Why do people believe in him?
 
muhammad_isa said:
There are many different creeds, that have evolved for varying reasons.
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Well, if God just hadn't sent Jesus, then all that trouble could have been avoided -- and there'd have been no reason to send Muhammad either (peace be upon him) to fix it? That's logical?
muhammad_isa said:
Almighty God guides us all. What else is there, but relying on God to guide us, and sincerely seeking truth?
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We do agree here :)
 
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muhammad_isa said:
Ah, but Erhman is a disbeliever, so what does he know? ;)
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To be frank, as far as theological knowledge? Christian theological knowledge? If I were to choose.who would win a controlled theological debate between the two of you, my money would be on him (insert one of your fav snarky emoticons here)
 
muhammad_isa said:
You tell me..
..so did Jesus, in your opinion, follow Jewish law .. or did He not?
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In my understanding a Jew is one born of a Jewish mother.... Jesus was born a jew...

If your criteria for staying a Jew after that is following Jewish law without fail... I feel very few would retain such label.
 
wil said:
To be frank, as far as theological knowledge? Christian theological knowledge? If I were to choose.who would win a controlled theological debate between the two of you, my money would be on him (insert one of your fav snarky emoticons here)
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TBF @muhammad_isa was being sarcastic -- aimed at me, lol
 
wil said:
In my understanding a Jew is one born of a Jewish mother..
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..and do you know why?
Anyhow, he wasn't just born as a Jew.
Jesus at the age of twelve accompanies Mary and Joseph, and a large group of their relatives and friends to Jerusalem on pilgrimage, "according to the custom" – that is, Passover.

Pom .. pom . pom .. dadaaa.
 
muhammad_isa said:
..and do you know why?
Anyhow, he wasn't just born as a Jew.
Jesus at the age of twelve accompanies Mary and Joseph, and a large group of their relatives and friends to Jerusalem on pilgrimage, "according to the custom" – that is, Passover.

Pom .. pom . pom .. dadaaa.
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I'd imagine that, around that time, most people who were executed for violating Jewish law were also Jews that celebrated Passover when they were 12.
 
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Ella S. said:
I'd imagine that, around that time, most people who were executed for violating Jewish law were also Jews that celebrated Passover when they were 12.
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I'm not sure what your point is here.
I don't believe that Jesus was executed for violating Jewish law.
He was an "irritant" to be disposed of, as far as the Sanhedrin were concerned.
 
muhammad_isa said:
I'm not sure what your point is here.
I don't believe that Jesus was executed for violating Jewish law.
He was an "irritant" to be disposed of, as far as the Sanhedrin were concerned.
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I'm just not sure why you seem to think that Jesus would have followed your understanding of Jewish law just because he was born into a Jewish community. Perhaps I'm misunderstanding you?
 
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Ella S. said:
I'm just not sure why you seem to think that Jesus would have followed your understanding of Jewish law just because he was born into a Jewish community..
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I was raised as a Protestant [ Church of England ]
I am aware of the OT, Psalms and NT [ the Bible ]

Do not Christians believe that Jews follow the OT, and believe it to be true?
Why would Jesus NOT follow the OT?
 
TheEndIsNigh said:
I'd say there's some debate about it.
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Of course there is. It's about the value of the evidence. The thread started when I posted a 20min video I found interesting, expecting perhaps a comment or two, not for it to carry-on as it has done. @Ella S. then posted a 90 min moderated debate between academic experts from both sides -- both are non-believers

In fact none of the parties in all the videos posted on the thread are 'believers'

But the thread started in the video section as a discussion of the original short 25min video condensing the debate?
 
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muhammad_isa said:
Why would Jesus NOT follow the OT?
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Christians believe He was the Incarnation -- Emmanuel, God with us -- sent by God to demonstrate by His own life and death and resurrection the Spirit of the universal laws of God -- for all humanity. But you know that. So with respect there should be no need to continue to repeat the question?

Is Muslim belief more logical?
Repeat
I said:
How illogical for God to send a sinless man of virgin birth -- a miracle worker who forgave sin and ascended alive to heaven -- to make a couple of slight changes to Judaism, that didn't work and resulted in the birth of the world"s major religion, instead by mistake? Oops! Surely Almighty God could have arranged things a bit more effectively?
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Have you read the parable of the Good Samaritan?
 
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RJM Corbet said:
..there should be no need to continue to repeat the question?
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Hmm .. but you have ignored the context..

Jesus at the age of twelve accompanies Mary and Joseph, and a large group of their relatives and friends to Jerusalem on pilgrimage, "according to the custom" – that is, Passover.

Is the above correct, in your understanding?
Was Jesus raised in a Jewish setting, and were Jesus' parents righteous, observant Jews?

..and then..

I said:
Do not Christians believe that Jews follow the OT, and believe it to be true?
Why would Jesus NOT follow the OT?
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Do you think that you could answer the above questions, one by one, in that context please? .. "with all due respect"
 
I have answered it in the context of Christian belief which sees Christ as more than just a Jewish teacher or a Jewish prophet @muhammad_isa

He went beyond the box. That's it. You don't have to like the answer, but that's no reason to keep asking it?
 
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