Ah, I see, short answer, no, that's not what's meant.Yes, I agree .. which to me, implies that it is "from Himself" .. nothing is nothing.
Have you experienced a state of nonduality/infinity/oneness?
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seattlegal
Mercuræn Buddhist
Regarding the feeling of oneness: yes, I have experienced it. However, my contemplations regarding it have steered my conclusions regarding the experiences towards a different explanation than what most other mystics have.
Vasu Devan
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And what would that alternate explanation be? do tell.
seattlegal
Mercuræn Buddhist
In a nutshell: everything you experience (sensory data, thoughts, feelings, communications, etc,) is subjectively processed. The Oneness of everything you experience, as well as the experience of Oneness, may just be due to the Oneness of your subjective mind.
Vasu Devan
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It could be. But you would have had to have the experience to really understand it. It was essentially experience of an unmatched reality that does not fit into the human language for description.
Plus, the mind itself has not been conclusively defined by priest or scientist. What is not the norm is usually discarded by science especially if it cannot be understood empirically.
Yeah... I often wonder about the convincing power of such experiences.
Related example: Lucid dreaming. This type of dream is usually understood as a situation where the dreamer gains a level of awakeness to recognize they are in a dream, and subsequently gain a measure of "lucidity", becoming able to reflect on the nature if the dream, or ever gain control over the dream events.
A different interpretation, which I heard from a good friend with extensive experience in lucid dreaming, is that one may be dreaming to be in a lucid dream, including the sensations of being lucid and in control.
Another morsel of food for thought, I feel, is the Buddhist observation that any experience which exhibits the characteristic of impermanence, among others, is necessarily dependent on the right conditions, and therefore not ultimately dependable.
I don't know what you tapped into. Did it have a perceivable duration?
Agreed, with some qualifications, in that there is a very strong correlation between the workings of nervous system, and the mind. Changes in brain chemistry, or injuries to the brain, have an immediate and reproducible effect on the mental state.
So while we are far from a definition of "the mind", and the scientific study of subjective experience is inherently difficult, we do have a pretty good grasp on the physical correlate.
'Amir Alzzalam
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Vasu Devan
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Lucid dreaming has been conclusively proved by science. It is recognized as a state different from waking and rem sleep.
Https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2737577/
it is possible to train yourself to trigger it.
Yes. It also did not take place with the senses of this reality. Whatever it was I know that it was a conscious cognitive experience of the state of infinite being and infinite love. It lasted only a few seconds and when it ended, the senses of normal reality returned. I was back to tying my shoe.
I don't think those who haven't experienced the state can understand it via imagination.
Ultimately though, nothing is certain in this reality with an open, uncertain future so I try not to make too many 'set in stone" statements beyond 'I am being'
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Aupmanyav
Be your own guru.
"Have you experienced a state of nonduality/infinity/oneness?": This is something which cannot be experienced but has to be understood and I have understood that.
But I am a strong atheist and an advaitist Hindu. I do not believe in existence of any God or an everlasting consciousness.
But I am a strong atheist and an advaitist Hindu. I do not believe in existence of any God or an everlasting consciousness.
Nice, thanks for the link.
What I was trying to say, however, is this: If I have a lucid dream tonight, can I be sure it is the real deal and not a dream about lucid dreaming? Without the schientific apparatus to measure brain activity?
How did you determine the sense of it having lasted a few seconds? did you have a sense of time passing or was it that the returning normal reality implied it?
Sounds like a profound experience either way, forgive my nosy prying.
Vasu Devan
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I've never had a lucid dream but I came close by seeing myself wearing a T-shirt with the words "I am lucid dreaming" and STILL didnt get my rational circuits to jump. I may have gone into lucid dream state if I'd stuck with it longer but the training plays hell with sleep states so I quit trying to trigger after that example failed to make me realize I am dreaming. You need to trigger it by mentally saying "i am lucid dreaming" or words of that ilk in the real world so that you remember it inside the dream. Another method is to break the rules of this reality.e.g.try to push your fingers thru your hand in the real world. Wont work here but may work in dream where normal laws dont hold. The idea is that you are breaking the block on your rationality circuit while remembering about the real world inside your dream world. Real world not as a sense element but as a memory/thought in the dream
No prob. The returning normal reality implied it. I was not aware of it in the Oneness experience. I didnt even recall the experience as defined as Oneness while in the state. Just a united, infinite being. The realization came after the experience ended and I returned to this world.
Well that's not the Christian God, so I'm not sure what this refers to.
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Well the Christian God only accepts those who believe in him and follow his commands, so he is conditionally loving. And when many Xtians want their God to be cruel, they can dig up something in the OT. When they need him to be loving, they can dig up something in the NT. Hell is after all a staple control factor of the Xtian demographic.
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Do share if possible...
And yet the choice of salvation is offered to all. God is love and, as you say, love is unconditional.
As ever, texts are contextual, and have to be read and understood accordingly. Here's where tradition comes to the aid of Scripture.
The Straw Man argument is not really an argument.
Much like the Tao, what can be spoken is not it.
I know that my personal 'it' can be explained in psychological terms. Doesn't mean the psychological explanation is correct, but just saying.
More like an observation?
What I really appreciate is when Christians acknowledge that, yes, there are people who are by all accounts also Christians, and who do engage with relish in fire-and-brimstone wrathful God theology. I like it when these Christians are not declared "not proper Christians", but rather acknowledged as a very vocal and visible, and yes, problematic part of Christianity. Only from such a position can dialogue and perhaps even change develop.
As Prospero said of Caliban in "The Tempest" - This thing of darkness, I acknowledge mine.
The psychological paradigm is limited but useful.
I sometimes think talking about "this stuff" is like those optical trick pictures which look like either an old or a young woman. You know both are there, and you can tune into either, but you can never see both at the same time.
(edit: spelling)
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seattlegal
Mercuræn Buddhist
I'm a mystic, not a scientist.